NEWS: 2nd Twitch Live Stream on Sept 27th (20:00 CEST)

[Morkonan]

...Knowing that the first DLC will bring back Jumpdrives for only size XL Boron military ships!

I think you've successfully predicted a significant bit of content for the first DLC pack.

[Santi]

@-Dna-

You also need 2 opposite views to have a discussion as well. And do we need a Jump Drive is a valid question.

@ Killjaeden
And all that, makes the jump drive a useless option, better leave Total War as it is and have no jumpdrive.

My point is that there are already a few things in place to travel around quickly, highways, Gates and SETA, so jump drive is a bit of overkill and with the new map layout and possible sector take over gameplay it does present a lot more balancing issues compared to teleportation that offers similar benefits.

My only concern so far with lack of Jump Drive is regarding big trade ships and how long will take to move assets around, will not like to be constantly using SETA because stuff is taking too long to happen.

Not saying it could not be implemented like they did in X Rebirth, if people really miss it and feels there is a need for it of course.

[Killjaeden]

And all that, makes the jump drive a useless option, better leave Total War as it is and have no jumpdrive.

I don't think you have payed attention... i already mentioned one situation where its absolutely not useless. And just because you would not want to use it in this form doesnt mean it is definitely useless or that others wouldn't want to use it.

Altered and adjusted Jumpdrive is a compromise between those people who want to have it and those who do not. And also a compromise to not simply dump one of the backbone of X's lore.

compared to teleportation that offers similar benefits.

The similar benefits end with "gives the player way to cut long distances short". There are more similar disadvantages too: Overly powerfull if unrestricted.

The common consensus is that X3 JD is too powerfull. Egosoft say limiting range does not help. And yet they apply this as argument for how the teleporter is not too powerfull - "because you have to research range upgrades". This is hypocrisy. Even if the range is just 5km (like X3 transporter) - the player can swap ships in seconds, removing any personal danger for him in group combat for example.

[Graaf]

SETA speeds up the entire game mostly for people to use to complete a task in less realtime. But not in less gametime. I don't know why it is brought up at all. It has nothing to do with the Jumpdrive.

You personally may use it for that purpose, but it is also widely used as a means to speed up travel. If you cannot see the correlation despite the detailed explanation then I'm afraid I can't help you any further.

I don't use SETA at all.

But what you fail to realize is that if you're ship is attacked and you want to get there quickly, then SETA is of no use, since it will also speed up the attack. Unless you are flying a salvage boat.
And I also see no point in teleporting to an escort fighter when my ships are attacked by a capital ship. I would need my Uberdestroyer2.0. Not allowing me to jump with my ship make the entire endeavour pointless.

Being able to take whatever ship you like with you is precisely the problem. If you can jump in with a fully-prepared combat ship every time then there is no challenge to ensuring that ships are adequately protected.

Forcing me to only use Uberdestroyer2.0's as escorts also makes the entire endeavour pointless, because there would be no need to go.

At no point did I say that a range limitation was a bad thing, only that it didn't solve the problems of the jumpdrive.

True. With only 8 systems, a range limitation would be useless.

My first suggestion would be that if you want to have a "big" universe you should make sure X4 starts with the roughly 200 systems we had in X3. Preferably more.

Bigger numbers don't necessarily make for a bigger feel. You clearly liked having a lot of small boxes joined by gates to fly around in; others had grown tired of that and wanted bigger areas with more variety and different ways to connect them.

Rebirth's systems were designed to accommodate the players that complained that X3's systems where too small. And now you are complaining about the systems being too big to easily transfer through to the action? Again this is not a Jumpdrive problem. Nor a SETA problem.
This is a design decision that backfires. It was too easy to respond in X3 when using a Turbo-Boosted Springblossom, but due to system sizes its too hard in Rebirth ... and X4.

No, you're the one who is complaining about the bigger systems. The issue of the jumpdrive's excessive power carries across systems as well as within them. Travel within systems has other solutions, whether you happen to be a fan of them or not.

I have no problem with the bigger interior size of the systems. I have a problem with the limited size of the "universe". And I measure by the amount of systems available, not by empty space inside those systems. We used to have 200 small boxes with interesting content, now we have 8 mostly empty boxes.

**I'm sure we were told that Egosoft was working on a real X4. Just like the name of the forum and yesterdays presentation. Yet we still do not get back the Borons because they prefer to keep Walking a priority. And now the removal of Jumpdrive, which again is in favour of Walking (by Teleporting). Why do I still keep the feeling this is going to be Rebirth 2 in disguise?

You get that feeling because you have decided that it can't be X4 unless it has every feature of X3 and more, and you are not prepared to accept any other interpretation. The reality is that everyone has their own ideas as to what the "essence" of an X game is, and what a "real X4" would need to include. To some (including you, judging by the dozens of posts you made on the subject) being able to fly multiple ships was an essential feature.

And since it's implemented in the next game I think you agreed.
But do we also get the gameplay associated with flying cargo or personnel transports? Or is it just the ability to fly a different ship with the same uninteresting gameplay provided with Rebirth?

To others it was the freedom to fit ships with different loadouts and build stations where they liked, and so on. We, and I think it's safe to say a good proportion of the people who have seen the presentations judging by their reactions, believe that we've captured that essence sufficiently to warrant giving the game the X4 title. You clearly disagree. You can stick to your mantra that it must have all the races and factions, the same universe size (by your personal definition which takes only numbers of systems into account) or bigger, and not have any of the new features that don't interest you in order to qualify for that name in your eyes, but that doesn't mean that everyone else feels the same way.

I'm not the only one who wants the Boron back. I'm not the only one complaining about the removal of the Jumpdrive. I'm not the only one asking to have all the systems back. I'm not the only one complaining about the highways.

As for the presentation: the only interesting thing was the new way to build stations. Too bad you didn't show us the 3D build environment. You only mentioned it could have been done, which is strange because why would you design a 3D-construction from only a top view? Which makes me question if it can be done?
The map showed again a universe that is flat, and it was very small (font-wise). The fighters emerging from the carrier showed again signs of bumper car physics. And there was Walking.
No actual gameplay was shown.
Also having the shown game elements looping during a live presentation brings up the question if it really was a live gamefeed and not just a pre-recorded presentation.

[UnknownObject]

It's a pity that I'm not good at perceiving English speech aurally.

Could you add correct subtitles to the Youtube video, please? I guess there are some mistakes in the automatically generated subtitles.

Or I'm asking too much of you?

[X2-Illuminatus]

Since Youtube uses neural networks in their captioning system, automatically generated subtitles are actually pretty accurate. I just had a look at the first few minutes, and it seems to be okay for the majority of what was said. Of course, the system has some problems with proper names or x-universe specific words. But especially in combination with what is shown, it should usually be clear.

[Santi]

Of course everything have its pros and cons, so it is not that I am against the Jump Drive and will not use it, it is that I see more things in favour of Teleportation than having a Jump Drive.

From a tactical point of view I see more depth to teleportation because you use the assets you have in zone, just personally piloting a ship can make a huge difference against the AI in combat and should offer more challenging fights. It adds another layer to player expansion and asset planning.

Instead with a Jump Drive you have a firefighter approach. Meaning that someone attacks your assets, you jump in with your overpowered ship/fleet and wipe everything out, that it is satisfying in a certain way but does not offer any gameplay depth.

You could limit the Jump Drive but those limitations will take away the main reason that makes it so popular, jump anytime, anywhere you like, with as many assets as you want.

[sd_jasper]

I'm interested in how no capital jumping effects capital combat and capture. Cap trade ships tend to try to escape combat, now if there is no jumping, they sill just boost away... and that tends to be much quicker than waiting on jump (and harder to deal with sometimes).

Will it make it harder for ships to be captured, since they can boost non-stop? I guess no more camping jump beacons to cap pirates :-p

Also, how is traffic around (super) highways? Are we going to have the conga lines of ships trying to enter (like some gates get)?

[ADMNtek]

As for the presentation: the only interesting thing was the new way to build stations. Too bad you didn't show us the 3D build environment. You only mentioned it could have been done, which is strange because why would you design a 3D-construction from only a top view? Which makes me question if it can be done?
The map showed again a universe that is flat, and it was very small (font-wise). The fighters emerging from the carrier showed again signs of bumper car physics. And there was Walking.
No actual gameplay was shown.
Also having the shown game elements looping during a live presentation brings up the question if it really was a live gamefeed and not just a pre-recorded presentation.

it was all prerecorded none of it was live presentation they only commented on the video. personally i would have preferred a live demo. that would have given the to show more or at least demonstrate things that people asked about.

[Lc4Hunter]

In the german forum someone started a topic "multiplayer leaked?" because he saw a menupoint during the presentation with the title "Multiplayer".

[ external image ]

Maybe it´s just some kind of placeholder or maybe something different lays behind the menu like uploading statistics or something like that, but maybe someone from Egosoft can say something about it?

Maybe we can prevent a further endless debate about it by getting an answer

[Killjaeden]

"oh this is something we added on 1st april for internal giggles - we just forgot to remove it"

[yimmasabi]

Hi All,

I just watched latest video about X4. I love it, actually you are on the right way. I see that you consider much about community. All is fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk4pPuC3GjA

I want to say that you need more graphical enhancements; Postprocessing, Texture level, Shadders, Shadow level . As I See clouds on planets needs some work.

I also wonder what FPS in 4K monitor is when it is in Ultra settings ?

Really Good Job

Thanks

[Falcrack]

All these arguements CBJ is giving why we won't have jumpdrives will all be for nought when they change their minds 6 months after release and add it in anyways. So why not add it into the game in a sensible way first to save them the trouble of backtracking later?

[Santi]

Because with player feedback, that are actually playing the game, you can always make a better job at implementing things.

[Nikola515]

@Santi

I really don't like instant jumpdive as well and I understand why ego made this choice. But this is not really solution for the problem and it might crate more issues in the long run. As I was saying before jumpdirve or hyperdrive with timer would be best solution in my opinion. For example ships enter worm hole(hyper space) and you are in hole for 5:00 to get from Argon Prime to OL (X3 distance). But than again we might not have that big universe so we wont be needing it.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

Do Stations still have their own defences like in Rebirth.

[Nikola515]

Do Stations still have their own defences like in Rebirth.

Yes

[Lc4Hunter]

Ok, one last thing on the Jumpdrive from my side and i hope i don´t start a new endless discussion:

Why not making a loading-phase and a cooldown for a jumpdrive?
I really don´t like the decission of just teleporting yourself through the whole galaxy because it´s a step back.

There are so much ways how a jumpdrive could work.
For example like in freespace: You load the jumpengine and a portal for your ship will open und you enter it. The exitpoint is always a gate. So every enemy power can control their terretory by defending the gates...

Reloading the engine takes a while or will cause damage on the ships integrity. Then you also could limit the jump-range. If you go over the safe jumprange you also get damage.

And saying it destroys tactical thinking is not correct. Something like a jumpdrive adds much more tactical possibilities. I never had the feeling that X was to easy because of using the jumpdrive. It was a good and necessary addition caused by the huge universe and the extreme long transitiontimes.

But i think IF there will be no jumpdrive at release, some modders will add something like this. I don´t think we have to miss this feature too long

[insolent1]

Are there going to be mines on asteroids or only mobile mining?
If they have been completly removed maybe have a ship that functions like a mine(embeds itself in the roid, has a dock for smaller freighters) consumes all the minerals and then moves onto the next roid.

[ZaphodBeeblebrox]

I personally don't think the jump drive will be as useful in X4 as it was in X3.
In X3 due to the way the universe was laid out, a jump drive was a necessity.
You could get anywhere PDQ. Every sector has one or more gates.
The universe layout in X4 is going to be radically different. More akin to
the Terran sectors than any other part of X3.

At the lowest level you have zones that make up a sector.
A sector is an area say near to a moon, planet or resource.
The next sector is going to be some distance away and will
require either a super-highway or orbital accelerator to get you there.
So having crossed several sectors you may finally come to a gate to
that particular cluster. A cluster usually being like a solar system.

So lets have a scenario. A freighter of yours is under attack.
You had the foresight to give it an escort. Assuming the teleporter
has the range, you teleport to one of the support craft, enter the thick
of battle and save the day.

On the other hand you jump to the nearest gate, only to find you have to cross
several sectors to get to your ship. Result, one lost freighter and fighter support.