[Lore] What's the point of the Jumpgate Shutdown?

[PilotsBallad]

Hello everyone,

just want to start some lore discussion here! It is well-known that most jumpgates were deactivated in order to prevent the Xenon from spreading, but doesn't that mean that each Xenon branch will now prosper on its own, eventually making them unstoppable due to sheer numbers?

The Branch/9 is already overruning Albion, and that's only one branch out of 27 that are known. Could it be that the Ancients made this choice while having a hangover?

[UniTrader]

my explaination for this is that they wanted to make already existing differences within them grow even bigger thus making them diffrent factions/species and when they encounter each other again to fight against themselves (practically a xenon civil war)

[PilotsBallad]

Wouldn't that contradict one of the objectives of the Ancient's 'Great Plan'? To preserve intelligent life in all its forms? Not to mention that they basically sacrificed hundreds of life-filled sectors which most likely weren't able to defend themselves, providing further ressources for the Xenon.

[Graaf]

To justify all the changes in Rebirth.

Lore-wise the Old Ones/Sohnen would have disabled or redirected the gate(s) leading to the star that was about to go supernova.

[PilotsBallad]

To justify all the changes in Rebirth.

I see. That's a shame, the lore of X always fascinated me, even though it was never really the focus of the games.

That goddamn Rebirth.

Lore-wise the Old Ones/Sohnen would have disabled or redirected the gate(s) leading to the star that was about to go supernova.

So that the Xenon would slowly vanish due to them flying into the supernova sooner or later?

There's also the fact that many jumpgates appear damaged and only have one gondola now. I can't look it up right now, but aren't the jumpgates supposed to repair themselves? Or is that yet another design choice from Rebirth?

[ajax34i]

The Ancients very rarely grant full membership (absorbed into the cloud) to intelligent species, and when they do they give it to the entire species rather than a few individuals, but they absorbed 2 Xenon CPU ships in the last game(s), and I don't believe this was just for the Right of Address.

So Egosoft can ret-con the lore to either:

1. The two absorbed CPUs are introducing errors of computation (judgment) or goal shift (no longer 3 primary goals) into the Ancients' computronium clouds.

2. The 7 species (Argon, Boron, Humans, Paranid, Split, Teladi, Xenon) in the last gate configuration have been determined to function in symbiosis, needing the constant wars to progress and develop, and the Ancients are re-opening gates in a way that facilitates that. Note that the Ancient goal is to prevent extermination, not war; even permanent war is probably acceptable if it's a part of what allows a species to advance.

EDIT: The Kha'ak, they've already stated that they need to be kept separate, not sure if they'll change their minds and include them as the 8th species.

[PilotsBallad]

1. The two absorbed CPUs are introducing errors of computation (judgment) or goal shift (no longer 3 primary goals) into the Ancients' computronium clouds.

The CPUs influencing the Ancients sounds pretty plausible actually. Their absorption into the computronium clouds shouldn't stop them from further evolution, right? Though it does seem like something the Ancients should've been prepared for, especially when dealing with something as dangerous as the Xenon/TF AGI.

2. The 7 species (Argon, Boron, Humans, Paranid, Split, Teladi, Xenon) in the last gate configuration have been determined to function in symbiosis, needing the constant wars to progress and develop, and the Ancients are re-opening gates in a way that facilitates that. Note that the Ancient goal is to prevent extermination, not war; even permanent war is probably acceptable if it's a part of what allows a species to advance.

The symbiosis part I've read about, but the need for warfare? War indeed brings technological progress which is necessary to reach the next category on the Kardashev scale, but isn't it just as important to make the civilization develop as a conscience? We wouldn't be much different compared to the Xenon otherwise, who enjoy endless technological progress without the need to get over their hatred against the human species (or any other organic lifeform).

[ajax34i]

Their hatred, though, is more or less an error in their code.

Spoiler

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Pretty funny when they give you the Xenon "cloaking" device during the X-Rebirth plot, and you hear your ship's computer (Betty) start talking about looking for planets to terraform. That was surprisingly well scripted.

The warfare, arguably, is required for the Split, and likely for the Humans, with the Borons, Paranids, and Teladi functioning as a dampener of hostilities, and the Xenon functioning as an external enemy. Arguably the Split and Humans could possibly self-destruct if left in isolation.

And from the other point of view, arguably the Xenon would not be able to advance without enemies.

Initially they were programmed to just terraform all the planets in the galaxy to be habitable for humans, then expire or move to other galaxies. The original AGI programmers were complete idiots and didn't program a dependence between the number of Xenon / number of planets that are terraformed, and the Human population growth rates.

Or perhaps such a dependence exists, and we keep each other in check.

[Ketraar]

The ancients in X are as convoluted as the ones on Stargate (even though the stargate ones are assholes on top of it). How their inner workings and ideals are, is anyone's guess. Though these type of very advanced civilizations are so advanced we cant grasp it and thus its at times hard to predict their intentions or outcomes. I mean this is true for "normal" day to day stuff, imagine galactic scale evolutionary predictions.

As for the question if Xenon can still spread while secluded, I'd argue that yes they can, the question then is how much and how fast. If we assume that evolution usually requires a "reason" to happen, then secluded Xenon may not NEED to evolve as fast or at all, if compared to Xenon (or other species) that share a "universe" and interact. Both from the need to adapt to new (possible) threats and the benefit of cultural exchange. In the sense that, if you have a big neighbouring faction, you are inclined to develop means to defend in case of attack, but also if you have one that has high-speed communications, you will want to mimic it for the same benefits.

Long story short, secluded Xenon (or any other society) are less likely to evolve in the same pace and direction than ones in contact with others. Diversity == Better stuff.

Also a quick note regarding CPU Ships, they are not inherently violent, so their integration in the cloud is just as problematic as any other species. Some may as well be far more problematic than others. I also doubt the CPU programming is an issue for the ancients as their abilities to "thin" are far beyond anything in "normal" space, so their impact should be minimal.

MFG

Ketraar

[ajax34i]

That makes sense, although it's difficult to write lore for a society that's so advanced.

Looking at humankind, I'd argue that as a species it's impossible to define "goal drift" for us, because we can't even have a goal (like the Xenon were programmed to have). Anything we set to achieve as a species immediately gets "drifted" and polluted by all the infighting and politics, and doesn't remain "a goal" for too long.

So it's difficult to see how advanced societies like the Ancients, especially when composed of multiple species, can have those 3 goals that the lore says they have, and especially difficult to see how they can keep them in focus for millennia.

To digress a little bit, my personal opinion is that the Ancients are deluding themselves; they HAVE fallen prey to virtualization but don't want to admit it. Computing isn't about achieving the fastest smallest processors; distributed computing is a thing, and arguably the brain power of clusters of galaxies of populated planets might be larger than the computing power of a few computronium clouds.

[Ketraar]

So it's difficult to see how advanced societies like the Ancients, especially when composed of multiple species, can have those 3 goals that the lore says they have, and especially difficult to see how they can keep them in focus for millennia.

This I'd read like the Human goals. Proportionally its similar, but more important it has the same mindset behind it, in the sense that its a goal set out to achieve even though we may not achieve it or it is unlikely to be feasible within a foreseeable cycle.

Lets take the Global Goals for Sustainable Development as an example. The intent of these goals is primarily awareness and a practical way of putting things in motion. If by the defined date only 50% of the goals were met, well its 50% closer then when you started.

In similar fashion and adjusted to proportion, the ancients have these "global" goals. When and if they will achieve them remains to be seen, but the lifespan of such goals are hard to be grasped by us that rely on a time scale incompatible with goals of such magnitude. Thus we set our goals to a lot shorter time frames so its somewhat comprehensible to our minds. hardly anyone can make plans for the next 50 years, nvm 500. To think that we are 900 years away from the events taking place in X, is mind blowing, assuming we build two (star)gates by 2036 that is.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

Commonwealth was building AGIs and they sent around 1,5 trillion drones to Sol. Terrran fleets wore pretty much destroyed and only way to save Earth was to open gate in to black hole. AGI drones wore tricked and they went trough gate and got sucked it to black hole and after that gates started to shut down. Terran colonists in HOL wore refuges running away when those drones attacked Sol (they thought Earth was going to get destroyed). At same time Xenon started massively invading other Commonwealth races because they wore weak from war against Terrans and they couldn't use AGI against Xenon. So ancients shut gates down to prevent total destruction of Earth and Commonwealth races. Also from what I have found that ancients are fighting some other race from different galaxy that is more advanced to them...

Also I found this interesting on Xenon I that is shaped as alien ????

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.c ... 25D51C0BA/

There is little info in XR and majority of plot don't make sense at all..... Also that big thing how Super Nova changed everything and yet there is nothing in game about It There are X universe books but they are all in German from what I hear. I wish they had them on English too

[mr.WHO]

Commonwealth was building AGIs and they sent around 1,5 trillion drones to Sol. Terrran fleets wore pretty much destroyed and only way to save Earth was to open gate in to black hole. AGI drones wore tricked and they went trough gate and got sucked it to black hole and after that gates started to shut down. Terran colonists in HOL wore refuges running away when those drones attacked Sol (they thought Earth was going to get destroyed. At same time Xenon started massively invading other Commonwealth races because they wore weak from war against Terrans and they couldn't use AGI against Xenon. So ancients shut gates down to prevent total destruction of Earth and Commonwealth races. Also from what I have found that ancients are fighting some other race from different galaxy that is more advanced to them...

IMO the whole Ancient gate shutdown to contain Xenon is an absurd as someone already mentioned that they cannot be contained in that way.
Aslo the fact that X-Rebirth "micro-universe" already connected to 5 Xenon infested system (Maelstorm, Teladi Outpost, Torride, HoL, Cold Start) deny this - why shut down the systems only to reconned them again to infested ones?

IMO more plausible is that the connecting gate to black hole to save Earth cause general Gate Network malfunction and Ancients had to shut it down as emergency to prevent critical failure. Thus in the events of X-Rebith the whole network begin to reconnect after "hard-reset".

Not to mention that Terrans can already be gate independent if they restart and upgrade the X-Shuttle program. Lore wise Terran gate in Neptune shut down along with Acient gates, but I assume it's because it coundn't connect to anything else in the galaxy (Any other Ancient Gate).
Combine X-Shuttle gateless drive and Terran made gates and you have tools for building Terran gate network.

Now you have two species rapidly expanding beyond your control - good job Ancients! Good Job! Unless Terrans start galaxy wide Xenon hunt on their own (this would occupy both species with each other).

Still Ancients could reactivate gate in Sol Asteroid Belt leading to system more infected than Maelstorm, but I bet that Terrans with their own gate network probably already dismantle/deactivate/destroyed/fortify that gate already.

[ajax34i]

They have two species rapidly expanding beyond the first level of control (the "here are some gates that lead to free planets, use them"). I'm sure the Sohnen can bring to bear some dreadful weapons, should they need to "control" us or the Xenon more.

[PilotsBallad]

IMO more plausible is that the connecting gate to black hole to save Earth cause general Gate Network malfunction and Ancients had to shut it down as emergency to prevent critical failure.

According to the lore from the last book, most jumpgates shut down long before they connect the Earth gate to a black hole.

I'd also like to know what that massive supernova that 'changed everything' is supposed to be, there is absolutely no detail about it in XR. Pretty boring for an event with such overwhelming consequences.

[mr.WHO]

I tend to ignore that "supernova thingy" - there is no word about it other than one sentence in X-Rebirth reveal trailer.

[ajax34i]

The only thing in X-Rebirth is an impossible black hole:

1. If the event horizon is that large, then that is a super-massive galactic-center black hole, as viewed from 0.5 LY away at the most. The system where it appears is not that close to the galactic center, and more importantly the 4 initial systems in the game are equidistant from the galactic center, but this black hole is visible in only one of them.

2. A star-massed black hole is about as big as a planet. Look at scale pictures showing the Earth next to the Sun, then look at the night sky to see what even the nearest stars look like.

3. The accretion disk is in contact with the event horizon, which makes it an active black hole. That gas should be orbiting very fast, but more importantly it should be glowing brighter than stars due to friction heat. The accretion disk should be deformed by gravitational lensing effects, and should be red and blue shifted, in addition to glowing brightly.

[Ezarkal]

All very true!

But ES is a company of game designers, not professional astronomers and physicists. XD

If we're talking about physically impossible things in the game, there would be plenty to add to that list... and then there would be no game because it would be impossible to make something truly realistic.

In that regard, I'll take a crazy black hole and a sudden supernova plot twist any day.

[UniTrader]

yep, like the Tubes connecting the four Home of Light Sectors. each of them has a length of about 636350000 meters - and since you usually pass them in about a second or less there are many things which would happen in reality missing there...

[Nikola515]

@mr.WHO

Xenon are AGI/Replicator race. They could have sent small scout fleets that can replicate them self and grow bigger over time. They also have unfocused jumpdrive that can jump anywhere without gate. Terran jumpdrive was originally based on xenon jumpdrive technology. They have found small Xenon/AGI scout in Sol with jumpdrive and they reverse engineered it. So it is no surprise Xenon are all over the place. They send seed ship and they wore hiding and build them self until they are strong enough to destroy everything. This or Egosoft wanted to put more enemies for player to blow up.

Gate that was used was Terran made so I don't think it would effect network. It would make more sense if gate shot down had something to do with Gate Hub..... After all it did broke again after it was being overused (or something down those lines).