Why is SETA back?

[birdtable]

I was just stating an opinion about SETA at no time did I cast any personal comments towards you or how you play.

[pref]

SETA may be good for those that edit in a few billion and want instant gratification.

Just quit whining about something that does not affect you in any negative way.

[Axeface]

I am struggling to understand why SETA has been implemented in X Rebirth

I see it as retrograde step, pandering to impatience.

I agree. When I saw it in the patch notes I was shocked and I just dont understand why they added it. I think the lack of it in rebirth was one of the better decisions.

And I want to add, the 'dont use it' arguement is just completely juvenile. There are valid reasons for not wanting it in the game. If when I play rebirth I get into the habit of spamming seta every three seconds and using it to escape from an AI that cant react properly when its on, then I wont play it again - it isnt fun and it simply isnt needed in rebirth.

I hope that egosoft havent lost all of their confidence, because that is incredibly bad for creativity.

[Informer]

@birdtable:
You disagree that im happy to have SETA? Sounds pretty funny
Dont use it, problem solved.
You just whine about something that does no harm to you actually.

Also SETA has nothing to do with save editing, or instant gratification. Maybe you messed up a few games of yours with seta abuse somehow, but that does not mean everyone can only use it like that.

Regarding conversations - anyone can disable those with mods completely, no need for seta there.

I also know that I don't have to use seta. but for me it was the reason you did like seta. Quote: It also makes in sector travel more free (spacey), just think of seta as another booster"
I think that is not true, it is the opposite if you like seta in that way, because it is a cheat of flying faster and loading you shield faster again.
For other things like building a station, or waiting for a trade, I have some more understanding, but I didn't like seta in x3, and if there was no need for a seta for a X game, then it was XR. I think XR is a much faster game then x3, and has many ways of travel.
Jumpdrive is coming back, so in my opinion no need of seta at all.

[Axeface]

I was also just as shocked to see 'uncoupled' flight mode added - yet another thing that the player can do and the AI can't, further empowering the already overpowered player.

[vadiolive]

AT end all everyone complain going use SETA
Dont worrier guys

[UniTrader]

AT end all everyone complain going use SETA
Dont worrier guys

because in the end the Gameplay will be designed around it. thats the problem i see here and thats nothing which can be solved with a "dont use it"

[birdtable]

Have just boarded an Albatross in Verdant Profit to the back drop of the cloudy nebula, flew to Gemstone manufacture to pick up new crew and arrange an adjustment of drones on the Albatross ..... flew through the Cell Recharge Fac while I watched an Arawn and Balor attack enemies .
I have never experienced such atmosphere, audio and imagery in any game I have ever played ....
This Space Sim does not need SETA ..(IMHO)

[Ezarkal]

I'm not a huge fan of SETA either, but I think there will be some uses for it.

Just like CJB mentioned, at some point through empire building, there is often this long period of waiting for materials to be produced. Although the game (and the multiple mods) give you plenty of stuff to do in the meantime, sometime I just get bored and let the game run while reading a book or preparing food.

Call me a casual, or an impatient dude who can't wait for the good stuff, but I think SETA will be welcome to some extend, at least to speed up the production cycle instead of waiting on and on sitting still or doing some zone patrol side quests.

So yeah, I was not begging for it, not even expecting it, but I will probably use it some bits.
Besides, if you don't want it, don't buy it.

@unitrader: It's just a personal feeling, but with how the game was designed so far I doubt they will suddenly change direction and fold back the game design around SETA simply because they implemented it.

[The Q]

No, no one is forced to use SETA, but that's not really the point here - for me at least. Whether I will use SETA or not, it will have an impact on the further development of the game. Especially as it is seen as giving players another option(s) by the devs themselves. I, however, see it has a hack of the game mechanics or game reality. It's a cheat to skip actual gameplay, which in my opinion shouldn't be the way to go. Instead existing features should be improved. The addition of a Playership jumpdrive is the best example here. You can jump already by docking to our cap ships and letting them jump somewhere. Still that is somewhat complicated, so adding a player jumpdrive makes sense somehow. By doing so, you don't really change anything game reality-wise, because ships can jump already, player and non-player ships. The feature is enhanced now by giving it to the player directly, but also balanced by the need to get a jumpdrive and the jumpdrive to be charged first. Similar approaches could follow (please note that I don't think they should), and could be something like: A nav beacon the player can put up in space to jump to (see X3AP for reference) or maybe even better a dedicated drone, which you can send somewhere to act as "jump reference point". Or you can try to think of something with the Highways by setting up own ones or by creating a connection to the existing ones from your stations in Temp Zones.
It's similar with regards to the building process. SETA may enable you to skip the actual gameplay, but I don't think that it improves it. Someone already pointed out that there's still a lot of micromanaging involved. SETA won't change any of this. So the only advantage that there is with the regards to building stations is the case, where you have everything set up properly, where the architect doesn't need any help from you and you don't have anything else (!) to do. That sounds like a very small advantage, if at all. Now to be fair, CBJ didn't mention station building but empire building. There's certainly more to do to build and manage an empire than just constructing stations. So you could probably think of a few more actions, which you would want to speed up for whatever reason. But here's where I struggle with the explanation for the SETA implementation: Especially as there are so many things to do, and as you, quite naturally, have to do these things in menus or conversations, I don't really see, how SETA can help with it!?

As I understood it, the vision of X Rebirth was to show game processes or the game reality in general in greater detail. Instead of ships just popping up they have to be build, instead of invisible ware transfers there are drones transporting wares, instead of ships being controlled by the autopilot all alone, there are people working on them, instead of stations being empty hulls, you can enter them. Stuff like that takes time to present and to experience or witness in the game. That is why the game needs lots of things to do. While you wait or even watch for one thing to be executed or finished, you have enough other things to do to pass the time. Implementing features to speed up or even skip all of these actions seems to me like a contradiction of the vision and of implementing these gameplay feature in the first place.

Of course, when it comes to the decision of what will be implemented into the game, development time is an important, maybe even the most important, aspect. So I can understand why the decision to implement a feature, which basically was already present, was made in the first place. Nevertheless, I worry that now that SETA is a thing within the game, it will play an important role within any further balancing discussion of any new or to be improved feature. Following the line of thought "...but don't forget we have SETA", features may be developed around it, as Unitrader already pointed out. Furthermore I'm afraid that heavy use of SETA (especially in advanced game sessions) may lead to new problems, which will then have to be identified and fixed, thus taking development time from other features.

[BigBANGtheory]

I can take or leave SETA myself, it does seem a little strange given the ammount of effort given to removing it that we are now talking about its reintroduction though. Hell even CBJ is talking about giving players choices, its all getting a bit surreal now

[CBJ]

because in the end the Gameplay will be designed around it.

No, sorry, this is the exact opposite of what will happen. As I explained at the very start of my post, we implemented SETA somewhat reluctantly in order to satisfy a particular subset of players for whom we acknowledge it is a useful tool. Our aim for the late-game scenario, as with the use case involving travel, will be to find ways to minimise the number of situations in which use of SETA will be the best way to achieve what a given player wants to achieve. That could involve alternative ways to shorten or automate certain processes, or it could mean more things to keep people busy while those processes are taking place. Either way, we certainly won't be designing new gameplay intended specifically for use with SETA.

I know that many of you have read my lengthy explanation of why "make it optional" is not always the magic solution that many people think it is, but this is one of those rare cases where people who do not wish to use SETA really can just relax and let those who do wish to use it get on and play the game their own way. The feature already exists so it is not taking up significant development time that could be used for something else, and we already use it during development and testing so it's not creating any additional overhead there. Use it or don't use it; there is no need to evangelise and try to persuade other people that your way of playing the game is the "right" one.

Edit: Typo.

[vkerinav]

I am struggling to understand why SETA has been implemented in X Rebirth

I see it as retrograde step, pandering to impatience.

I'm not all that interested in defending SETA, but consider this;

What panders more to impatience? A game that attempts to fill every moment with something exciting to do, or a slower galaxy that lets you speed up the boring bits?

[Graaf]

And I want to add, the 'dont use it' arguement is just completely juvenile. There are valid reasons for not wanting it in the game. If when I play rebirth I get into the habit of spamming seta every three seconds and using it to escape from an AI that cant react properly when its on, then I wont play it again - it isnt fun and it simply isnt needed in rebirth.

If you don't have the willpower to not use SETA then disable the keybind.

BTW, its singleplayer. Nobody is forcing you to use this option either.

[MAUCorp]

Thanks for the input, CBJ. It's highly appreciated, as always.

Agreed.
Also glad to hear the games design and systems won't be compromised by this reintroduction. I'm totally onboard with willpower serving my play-style.

[CBJ]

If you don't have the willpower to not use SETA then disable the keybind.

You won't even need to do that. Unless you actively go out and obtain a SETA device, which as already mentioned will not be trivial, the key won't do anything anyway!

[UniTrader]

Also thanks for this clear answer on my concern @CBJ
regardless of this it still stands as is because only time can tell - but I would be glad to be proven wrong in this case
And sorry if I formulated my previous post a bit harsh but imo leaving out the SETA and cheap personal JD was a step in the right direction... Implementing these again came surprising

[Tamina]

As Unitrader said, it is not just a cheatbutton for us but for you as well.
At some level design point in your new DLC it points out that travelling is very tedious and long at an important central location (i.e.).
Without SETA we would have an issue with "high priority" but WITH SETA this priority might get lower or never solved at all because "Just use SETA".
At least that is the fear.

I appreciate your statement very much but the future is uncertain.
I wanted to go to work today but instead pressed the SETA button on my alarm clock

[ezra-r]

More of anything is never an issue. The issue would be to depend on SETA for everything, and we don't.

[Gtadam]

I think egosoft has made a wise decision. Both the jd and seta are welcome additons. End game in rebirth is tedious, which this will remedy a bit if nothing else.

Now if they just removed first person mode and added rare high isk drops for killing capitals ships... drops in x3 was exciting, cant say the same for rebirth. Killing xenon stations/I should give something as well. Doesnt have to be always but would be a fun alternative to missons.