[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[Ebany]

I would not buy a disk game anymore.
........... I would vote but there is no "I love steam" option.

lol, I love the simplicity of your answer

[Ebany]

The older copies of X:Series don't rely on Steam to play, so maybe Egosoft should do a trial run.

Release those older copies to companies like GoG, see if they make many sales this late in their life. If they beat Steam sales the following month, maybe we have our answer?

[EmperorJon]

Basically 84% of people chose (for whatever reason) not to purchase through Steam.

Indeed, but it's the "whatever reason" that we don't know.

[cw8]

I love steam, every game works.

Erm no, doesn't mean that everyone else does not have problems with Steam. In fact because of Steam I refuse to buy CE editions of games that are tied to Steamworks.

Just hope Egosoft places it on other stores other than Steam even if it's Steamworks until the noSteam.exe arrives like Gamersgate or Greenmangaming. I save around $10 or more buying boxed Steamworks games or from GMG than from Steam directly at launch. Then endure a year before Rebirth becomes DRM-free.

[Ebany]

Basically 84% of people chose (for whatever reason) not to purchase through Steam.

Indeed, but it's the "whatever reason" that we don't know.

I'd say "because they're never seen a game like Rebirth before" but then I'd just be kissing a$$

My reasons are too many too put on paper, I just know the final catalyst of
my discontentment.

Then endure a year before Rebirth becomes DRM-free.

I'll endure until its STEAM-Free, though I won't keep watching, I'll buy it the minute it doesn't require Steam. If that day never comes then I always have the golden oldies to reminisce over.....

[Inverness]

I think the people waiting for the game to be "Steam/DRM free" are going to be disappointed when it doesn't happen. The purpose of Steam isn't to be DRM. It's a useful service for both players and developers. If a non-Steam version was ever intended it would be released from the get go like many other games, there would be no need to wait for it.

[GCU Grey Area]

I love steam, every game works.

...until they insist on an update which exceeds whatever I have left on my rolling 30 day download quota - then they abruptly stop working, even when explicitly told not to download updates.

Currently have 3 games (out of a total of around a dozen or so Steam games) with this problem. Between them they're asking for well over 10Gb of downloads. I currently have about 2Gb left over before my connection gets clamped down to what is effectively old dialup modem speeds. No idea when I'll next get to play any of those games. The worst offender (Sleeping Dogs) has been effectively unplayable for the best part of a year because of this - never even got to finish a single playthrough due to a series of multi-Gb updates I simply couldn't keep up with.

Never had any problems of this magnitude with games before Steam took over everything. Have never broken or lost a disk (in over 30 years of playing computer games), have had very few issues with any form of disk-based DRM & have never had any problems at all manually installing updates - the games even kept working while I was finding a convenient time (or place) to download the update. However time & again Steam screws me over with it's policy on game updates.

Steam isn't an automatic non-purchase for me, however it does make me think twice about it & more often than not means I'll wait for a later release of a game which includes all the major updates and/or DLCs on the disk.

[DaMuncha]

But that's not Steams fault, its the fault of the crappy ISPs we have in NZ.

[Inverness]

I love steam, every game works.

...until they insist on an update which exceeds whatever I have left on my rolling 30 day download quota - then they abruptly stop working, even when explicitly told not to download updates.

Currently have 3 games (out of a total of around a dozen or so Steam games) with this problem. Between them they're asking for well over 10Gb of downloads. I currently have about 2Gb left over before my connection gets clamped down to what is effectively old dialup modem speeds. No idea when I'll next get to play any of those games. The worst offender (Sleeping Dogs) has been effectively unplayable for the best part of a year because of this - never even got to finish a single playthrough due to a series of multi-Gb updates I simply couldn't keep up with.

Never had any problems of this magnitude with games before Steam took over everything. Have never broken or lost a disk (in over 30 years of playing computer games), have had very few issues with any form of disk-based DRM & have never had any problems at all manually installing updates - the games even kept working while I was finding a convenient time (or place) to download the update. However time & again Steam screws me over with it's policy on game updates.

Steam isn't an automatic non-purchase for me, however it does make me think twice about it & more often than not means I'll wait for a later release of a game which includes all the major updates and/or DLCs on the disk.

Steam offers delta patching now so you can avoid that now. Not only that but Egosoft "patches" their games by providing new files for you, not overwriting the old ones.

The Witcher 2 patching fiasco was totally CDPR's fault for forcing people to redownload a 9GB file.

[slimgrin]

I would prefer to never use Steam or any required game client, but unless I want to start pirating and cracking games (which I don't), I don't have much choice. So I put up with Steam, Origin etc. I personally hope the series will arrive on GoG someday.

[TTD]

Steam offers delta patching now so you can avoid that now.

What is that?
How does it work?

[Slashman]

People who "would" buy a digital copy only made up 20% of the sales in the first month. Forgive my maths, its very late for me, but that means Steam got 16% of total sales for the first month. That's good, that's fantastic!

Physical sales for this game were big business, when faced with purchasing from Steam.

That is relevant because this discussion directly relates to whether Rebirth will lose sales because people are forced to use Steam. Basically 84% of people chose (for whatever reason) not to purchase through Steam

Again, the relevance; If Rebirth uses Steam exclusively, will they lose sales? yes they will. Will they lose sales at a volume which negates the benifits of using Steam? We really don't know, but we can assume "no" since Egosoft are heading that direction.

I'd like to point out that The Witcher 2 boxed copies contained a bunch of cool stuff for people who bought the box. Even if you didn't buy the collectors edition, you still got decent swag:

GAME DVD
The Witcher 2: Assassins of Kings game DVD.

MAKING-OF DVD
All the cinematic materials related to game - trailers, dev diaries, gameplay footage, interviews and making-of exclusive video.

OST CD
Audio-CD with in-game music.

ETUI
Box with all the contents of The Witcher 2 Premium Edition.

WORLD MAP
A map of the game's world.

GAME GUIDE
The Witcher 2 strategy guide for both novice and experienced role-playing fans.

GAME MANUAL
A rulebook and interface explanation to help you get started.

PAMPHLET AND COIN
A physical representation of one of the in-game items.

PAPERCRAFTS
Two papercraft dolls - Geralt and one random character for collectors.

DLC
Extra in-game feature for download: The Ultimate Swordsman Suit

Even though I don't bother with boxes anymore, I still would have gotten a boxed version if I could at the time.

[cw8]

The Witcher 2 patching fiasco was totally CDPR's fault for forcing people to redownload a 9GB file.

Only for the Steam users, lol. The GOG and boxed copy users never had a problem

[cw8]

That said, those stats just re-enforce my point. Faced with Steam, most people chose to by from other distributors or bought a physical copy because it doesn't require Steam to activate. In fact, the physical copy had DRM protection, only the GoG copy came DRM-Free. That's why I bought a physical and a GoG copy. Figures show it, most of us tried to avoid Steam!

Boxed copy of TW2 had its DRM removed shortly. And you could redeem the boxed key for a backup GOG version. I got the GOG version first then bought the boxed for the physical goodies. So I too have 2 copies.

[Slashman]

Steam offers delta patching now so you can avoid that now.

What is that?
How does it work?

Basically (to put it very simply) it means that if you have a file which needs updating, only the portions of that file that are changed will be downloaded.

So in the case of TW2, instead of grabbing the whole 9GB file(and CDPR should probably not have packaged ALL their game assets in one file anyway), only maybe 400 megs might have needed to download.

Of course, if the patch is big enough that most portions of the files(s) need to be changed anyway, you're still going to get a big download.

What I have noticed since Steam started doing it is that it still looks like the entire file is being downloaded, but the speed at which it finishes suggests that only part of the file gets pulled down.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The purpose of Steam isn't to be DRM. It's a useful service for both players and developers.

I have tried arguing this point before; However, many people who are anti-Steam do not accept it as a valid argument.

I certainly appreciate the position of Ebany but without knowing the exact details of the overcharging incident it is difficult to say if Ebany's view point is correct. Certainly, if it is correct then it would be pursuable in a small claims court if Ebany was so inclined.

[slimgrin]

If Steam's only purpose was to provide a service, it wouldn't be mandatory. So yes, Steam is very much about DRM and exclusivity. The more software clients we get in the industry, the less choice gamers will have.

edit-My biggest concern here is patches, updates and mods being regulated through Steam, which is a disaster waiting to happen. The whole idea of a moddable game is providing freedom for the player to choose the type and source of his mods. Steam takes us one step further into making PC a closed platform similar to consoles. No 'service' they provide is worth that.

[cw8]

The purpose of Steam isn't to be DRM. It's a useful service for both players and developers.

I have tried arguing this point before; However, many people who are anti-Steam do not accept it as a valid argument.

Compulsory clients are DRM, don't care if it's Steam, Origin. Uplay or GFWL. There are other useful services and stores, quite a number of them. Sell the game through Steam all you want, just provide the alternatives to buy the game outside of Steam, that's the keyword we're looking for, alternatives. Wasteland 2 is gonna be on almost every store, GOG, Steam, Desura, hell even Origin, and nobody and no backer on the forums is complaining about only getting the game on Steam.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

If Steam's only purpose was to provide a service, it wouldn't be mandatory. So yes, Steam is very much about DRM and exclusivity. The more software clients we get in the industry, the less choice gamers will have.

Not really, but this argument has been debated many times before (to the point of some such discussions getting split and locked).

It really is a matter of perspective at the end of the day and those that are convinced that Steam is primarily DRM will probably never be persuaded to see it any differently.

The reality of the situation is that:-

1. Steam requires users to log-in to make use of their service(s). This is little different from having to register with the developer's site in order to get support or download patches.
2. Some games on Steam either do not require you to be logged into Steam OR require the user to log-in to alternative Client services (e.g. uPlay).
3. It is typically up to the publisher how closely their software will be integrated with the Steam (or other - e.g. uPlay) services.
4. Steam currently does not supply a resell/deregister/transfer facility for software linked to it's services (but neither does uPlay or Origin AFAIK).
5. Egosoft has committed (in it's FAQs) to supporting it's customers in the eventuality that the Steam service discontinues.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

My biggest concern here is patches, updates and mods being regulated through Steam, which is a disaster waiting to happen. The whole idea of a moddable game is providing freedom for the player to choose the type and source of his mods. Steam takes us one step further into making PC a closed platform similar to consoles. No 'service' they provide is worth that.

It has been proven to work quite well with other games such as Skyrim, albeit MOD/DLC compatibility has been a bit of a bone of contention in some cases. However, fixing such issues is up to the game developers and mod authors to manage and not the Steam service in itself.

Steam in it self gives the publishers/developers building blocks to make use of and it is up to them how far they go.