Capping mechanics... [Spoilers and even some disassembled code inside]

[Sandalpocalypse]

I noticed capping was far more common than in my normal game... Heck, i about an hour of play, i had captured 3 ships while i usually took 1-2 hours to get one in my previous game despite trying hard to not vaporise the opposition outright...

Randon number generators have streaks. Over time, almost everyone seems to average out to slightly over 10%.

[fiksal]

Galaxy flight timestep is measured in microseconds, so probably.

that could be, though intervals seem awfully small then

even milliseconds is quite small, but maybe more reasomable, since 300 *10^-3 = 0.3 seconds

And the more you keep firing, the longer
the delay before you can cap again?

if you keep firing you make the counter increase, so the more you fire at it continuously, the less chances you get.

Sort of.
If you dont fire - nothing happens, if you do, delay is growing.

This code:

if ((sh_TakeoverDelayTime > 300) &&
(ga_Player.GetAge() > (sh_NextTakeoverChanceTime + sh_TakeoverDelayTime))
{
sh_TakeoverDelayTime = 30;
}
else
{
sh_TakeoverDelayTime += sh_TakeoverDelayTime;
}

Should be read as: If you hit the pirate constantly you get a chance at 30 ticks, then at 60, then at 120, etc, doubling each time, UNLESS:

If you break your attack, and wait double the last timer, the timer gets reset.

yeah, you are right,
however, that will only happen if the Delay already got to 300 units and more. It wouldn't satisfy if Delay is less.

So looks like you may as well wait after the 5th shot... hm
30,60,120,240,480...

[Sandalpocalypse]

If that's correct, intense sustained bursts seem to be the best method.

[TBV]

Spoiler

Show

Certainly feels like we're getting somewhere now doesn't it?

It would be really good to know what ga_Player.GetAge() returns, or
what the smallest unit of time used by the game is.

Someone must know.....

edit spoiler

[ivak]

If that's correct, intense sustained bursts seem to be the best method.

That's my preferred method, and it yields ~10% nowadays.

[juanitierno]

i think its pretty safe to assume that player.getage() gives the time in hundreds of a second since the start of the game.

An effective "current date" considering the existance of SETA.

[Carlo the Curious]

Galaxy flight timestep is measured in microseconds, so probably.

that could be, though intervals seem awfully small then

even milliseconds is quite small, but maybe more reasomable, since 300 *10^-3 = 0.3 seconds

Actually I did mean milliseconds . Unwatched OOS timestep = 30000.

[juanitierno]

If that's correct, intense sustained bursts seem to be the best method.

Just keep in mind the script only checks for 1 shot before applying the time penalty... so the word INTENSE might not be specially true.

According to the code, a single AIRE or PBE will give as many capping chances as 8xBHEPTs


I still believe:

* 2.5 seconds sustained fire with a single low damaging weapon.
* break off attack for 9 seconds
* Repeat

should give you a pretty decent cap rate.


Definetly those 9 seconds of pause every 2.5 seconds of shooting make it not worth it against stuff like a harrier or a buster, but it should give you better chances at capping PNRs and LXs.

[LV]

It's quite sad the capping which has always been a good topic of discussion here has been stripped to the bone in this thread.

If you know whats at the end before you start why bother to walk the path.

[fiksal]

According to the code, a single AIRE or PBE will give as many capping chances as 8xBHEPTs

agreed, except this. The weak laser will reduce your probability by 5% (which is a lot)

if (AttackerEv.GetStrength() < this.GetStrength()){
ProbabilityCapture -= 5;
// сила находится как сумма Shileld + Hull + MaxLaserDamage
}

It's quite sad the capping which has always been a good topic of discussion here has been stripped to the bone in this thread.

If you know whats at the end before you start why bother to walk the path.

The more you talk about it, the more it's going to be dissected

Actually I dont think I'll dramatically change my capping technique.
I might use stronger laser than a weaker one now. And I may pause whenever I feel like it (after 5th shot), for maybe around 9 seconds.

[Nanook]

It's quite sad the capping which has always been a good topic of discussion here has been stripped to the bone in this thread.

If you know whats at the end before you start why bother to walk the path.

I agree. It takes a lot of the mystery out of the process, and makes it more mechanical, hence boring. Let's hope Egosoft changes the capping algorithm in the future, just to spite all these 'mechanists'.

Normally, I like knowing how things work. But in some cases, like this, it's better to not have a formula. It's like learning the tricks in an FPS or RTS game that allows you to breeze through every replay. In short order, there's no replay value left.

Boo on the OP for starting this thread. No, I take that back. Boo on kotekzot for bringing that link to the forum.

[fiksal]

oh sure, complain now when we actually (might be) finding something real, rather than just guessing

[Carlo the Curious]

You could say the same thing about knowing that you can't cap an M6, knowing that anything in an XTM is cappable, knowing how many Pandora extensions exist, etc, etc.

It may remove some of the mystery, but I think it's better to know than to spend hours fruitlessly trying something which isn't actually possible (or is very improbable).

Even if you do know the formula, it still take some skill to accomplish things. In Nanook's theoretical FPS, if you screw it up you still lose, same with any game.

EDIT: If someone is actually willing to play with a stopwatch by their side waiting for the next 'cap check' to tic over then they're welcome to - but I don't think it's really going to influence people's play that much. And the code analysis could be wrong...

[TBV]

Spoiler

Show

If you know whats at the end before you start why bother to walk the path.

I know that death is at the end of life, but I'll still walk the path thanks.

Have we got it to it's bare bones? I'm not certain we're quite there yet.


What concerns me, is that a player called Terre Crimson has played for
more than 170 days and in theory could play quite a bit more.
That's 14,688,000,000 microseconds. The station and personal accounts
hold 2,000,000,000, that would be enough for just under 24 days.
Even hundredths of a second would roll over at 240 days.

edit spoiler

[Nanook]

....
It may remove some of the mystery, but I think it's better to know than to spend hours fruitlessly trying something which isn't actually possible (or is very improbable)....

No one spends "hours fruitlessly trying something which isn't actually possible" when capping ships. Pretty much everyone gets caps eventually, so your argument is irrelevant to the case at hand. In the case of capping M6's and such, yes, it's good to know, and Egosoft told us. In the case of Pandora's, it's not good to know how many until you've done it once. That counts as a spoiler. How to find them is much less a spoiler, and is good to tell others. There's no black and white about most of this stuff, but taking the mystery out of something as complex and rewarding as capturing ships just doesn't seem right to me. It was so much more fun to speculate. Which is probably why Egosoft never told us.

This whole thread should now be considered a spoiler.


{Edited for typo.}

[MrBigTime]

Wow! I am loving this thread. I have a question regarding this chunk of code

Code: Select all

if (AttackerEv.GetStrength() < this.GetStrength()){
ProbabilityCapture -= 5;
// сила находится как сумма Shileld + Hull + MaxLaserDamage
} 

Does anyone know if that's looking at weapons that are being fired or just the ones that are mounted. If the latter you could mount all AHEPTS except for the one BIRE that you are actually firing and not suffer the penalty.

[Carlo the Curious]

No one spends "hours fruitlessly trying something which isn't actually possible" when capping ships

Besides people trying to cap an M6, or a XI K or J, or an assassination mission ship, or...

How is knowing that information so different from knowing how the bail process actually works?

[fiksal]

it's a personal preference I guess.

Capping is somewhat an odd one, since the rules of capping remained to be somewhat shady.
And as the algorithm above showed, the possible implementation of it is somewhat confusing, and not obviously logical.

I am turning into Spock.

This whole thread should no be considered a spoiler.

fair enough, the author of the thread could update the title

Wow! I am loving this thread. I have a question regarding this chunk of code

Code: Select all

if (AttackerEv.GetStrength() < this.GetStrength()){
ProbabilityCapture -= 5;
// сила находится как сумма Shileld + Hull + MaxLaserDamage
} 

Does anyone know if that's looking at weapons that are being fired or just the ones that are mounted. If the latter you could mount all AHEPTS except for the one BIRE that you are actually firing and not suffer the penalty.

That's not clear from the comments, I'll see if I can find out more from other posts.

[Nanook]

No one spends "hours fruitlessly trying something which isn't actually possible" when capping ships

Besides people trying to cap an M6, or a XI K or J, or an assassination mission ship, or...

How is knowing that information so different from knowing how the bail process actually works?

Knowing that something is impossible prevents frustration, hence why Egosoft tells us. Knowing HOW to do something the easiest way is a spoiler, and is why we have spoiler tags. Hence, Egosoft DOES NOT tell us these things, keeping the game more entertaining and less mechanical. It may be hard to understand, but it's true.

[Carlo the Curious]

It may be hard to understand, but it's true. Wink

Please don't be condescending. You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm entitled to mine.