[Bonus Plugin] Group Management System (GMS)

[hurin1]

How exactly does resupplying work? Never saw any docs on that.

[jlehtone]

Whenever a ship is docked, GMS will periodically check if resupply is required and possible (ie the Carrier or Station has/sells items to resupply).

[hurin1]

I emptied a fighter of energy and sent it to dock at a SPP. It came back empty. Does it not work on energy or something?

GMS was currently loaded on the unit.

[moggy2]

the reload isn instantanious on docking. It takes a while for it to realise it docked.

If the ship restarted it's default command without refueling then that might be a bug, I usually send the whole group for energy at the same time, that way I know they've all got enough, and the lead ship will stay put once docked, thus the others will too,

[s9ilent]

What happens if the lead ship dies? Does the group just appoint the next ship as a new lead?

[jlehtone]

What happens if the lead ship dies? Does the group just appoint the next ship as a new lead?

Exactly that. In fact the stock "ship formation" logic of the game does that (formation leadership inheritance) already, but the GMS makes sure that the new leader really runs the GMS-leader command with proper GMS-variables.

One exception though. If an escort of group leader is not escorting the leader at the time of leader's death, then it will be a bit "orphan". But as long as you have your Group act as a group, you have no worries.

[ZingFreelancer]

I am like shit new to this game, but have been trying as hard as I can and now even run own complex of 6 facilitys, but I got a problem with this script.

I run it on a Centaur and there is 6 more centaurs, every one is idle in space, no one doing nothing. So I set 6 ships to be in group (I have like 5 centaurs) what happens is that the centuar I run it on become leader and nothing els happens with every one els. I am greatly confused and hope some one can tell me why it happens. I also tryed to unnistal it but it did not work.

[frenchywinbig]

finally getting my head around grouping, thanks to every1s helpful posts, but 2 things bugging me....

1. so whats the best way to sort the problem of the lead ship changing to attack all enimies?? (be much better if it went to idle, or to gather resorces..for jump drive n MD e.c.t

2. if there is a fighter set into a group of trading ships, and the fighter is set to protect leader, will he protect the whole group??? if not how can this be achieved.

oh ye, as regards to point 1, if a ship is selected to use navigation overide system (NOS) will it not refuse the attack all enimies command and steer clear of those pirate b******s. (easy solution maby?)

oh, by the way i have no space in my additional commands slots (only 2?) and i think im right in thinking the EMP (extended mod pack) adds more command slots?? but im scarred to do this cause last time it caused errors and i had to uninstall/reinstall and i lost my save games. i think after i read "need to uninstall all scripts and mods first" (cant remeber)

ooh yes one more thing, if ships/groups are attacked and they have drones, will they automatically launch them? if not can this be made possible?
thanks for your time cheers frenchy


p.s i no this is the wrong thread (sorry) but im hearing things about vannila that make it seem likes theres extra mods and scripts in there?? i assumed that vanila was a way of switching between modded/unmodded games?? am i right?

sorry for asking so much stuff but at least it will all be on 1 reply(hopefully) making life a little bit easyer for those trying to find answers to all these questions.

[jlehtone]

1. so whats the best way to sort the problem of the lead ship changing to attack all enimies?? (be much better if it went to idle, or to gather resorces..for jump drive n MD e.c.t

The one who shoots first has the best chance of survival, both IS and OOS. Therefore the "Attack all" is a sensible default.


"Protect formation leader" is the standard stock command. It attacks the attackers of the leader. Period.

[frenchywinbig]

fair play...but i havent got much of an empire at the moment, with just two m4 fighters protecting two TP ships, not brill i no no but everyones godda start sumwhere.
so if i was set to attack all enimies id probly get blown to pieces. and it seems pirates always attack me.
but sounds a good option when im better prepared.

any advice on my my other questions?

cheers for the advice much appreciated frenchy

[moggy2]

there are 2 ways to prevent the leader starting Attack all enemies.

1) don't let the leader stop without a command in open space. this is rather sensible thing to do anyway. If you want the ship to stay still in open space use the Standby command.

2) write a script that changes the local variable group.defaultcmd on the ship.

the reason it uses attack all enemies as the default command is that it's usually combat ships that are left to their own devices in open space.


I'm not entirely sure whether a fighter protecting a group will protect the whole group. I suspect not.

TS class ships will use drones if attacked.

You can't add more command slots. EMP adds more commands but not more slots. you can only have 2 ship commands running at a time. You'll have to decide which ones you really want to use if you have more.

[jlehtone]

you can only have 2 ship commands running at a time.

Two "Auxiliary". Aren't they slots 10 and 11? And then the Primary command in slot 0. For these three slots one can stop the running command by selecting an another command (or 'None') in the same slot. This is what you normally do.

Ships do have other slots too, but one would need a helper command to list/start/stop scripts on them. Such helper is not trivial, I guess. (Active SE does show running scripts in ship details, but that is read-only.) Some primary commands do run background helper scripts in those unlisted slots already.


It is that GMS command in auxiliary slot that starts the "Attack all enemies" (and refuels when docked). One could stop it on the Lead (transport). But that might break some logical invariables at some point.


Watching combat with sector map open:
* lead of formation is hit -> whole formation flashes red
* escort is hit -> that escort and lead flash red

From that one might assume that SIGNAL_ATTACKED from leader is broadcasted to whole formation, but SIGNAL_ATTACKED from other member is merely unicasted to the leader. And I'm not at all certain about the latter. If it does, and the leader reacts, then its attack on the foe might cause retaliation against the leader, which would call in the rest of the formation. But transport lead probably does not react, and even if it does, by the time the formation reacts, the assaulted member is probably long gone.

And if we are talking OOS, that M4 probably dies from the first hit.

[Havner]

I think there is a little bug. I've set my first group to number 0. In general it does work as it should with one exception. I cant reset GMS on Additional Ship Commands. It's greyed. I cant turn it off, do something with the ship and turn it on again. Even when GMS is turned on a ship and you enter Additional Commands you see its inactive.

Works perfectly for group number >=1. It wasn't mentioned that group cant have number 0 so I'm reporting it.

Other thing I've found not working is the '-null' special name. It disbands the group but doesn't reset ship names to stock ones. They got the same name as before setting the group so it doesn't differ from '-unset' for me.

EDIT: Additionally I think that this pack should provide normal command "Attack target of..." (with Fight Soft MK2) to be used by hand and be accessible without unsigned scripts as it is already implemented here.

[spoidz]

moggy2,

I received some feedback from a separate post on Multi-sector patrols. I was wondering if this is correct and is a disclaimer for GMS? I didn't read anything in this thread in similar vein.

spoidz wrote:
I'm trying to finally set up some substantial multi-sector patrols and need some basic answers on how they fly their routes. I'm using Group Management Software to keep the wingmen with the leader. Giving only the leader the patrol command.

Carl Sumner wrote:
Don't use other advanced commands on the wingmen for a Patrol leader. It will be erased automatically, but might leave behind stuff that interferes with the automatic commands. Cool

Give them "Protect" commands on the leader ship. When the leader is given the Patrol command it will automatically set the wingmen up as needed.

Basically, is there any prohibition to using GMS groups for Multi-Sector patrols? Or must they only be manual set-up?

Thanks

[moggy2]

the patrols give all the wingmen the command "Attack Target of..." so that all ships attack the leaders target. This is the mos effective way to operate a group OOS.

I don't know what happens if you use GMS to change some of the wingmen to other commands. In any case, it doesn't overwrite anything that GMS uses so if you stop using the ships in a patrol GMS will continue to act normally.

[jlehtone]

IIRC, the Patrol command does not inherit properly on death of the Patrol ship (only the lead ship runs the Patrol command, but commands anyone in formation with it). Thus, dead leader leaves followers in 'None' state. This is obvious, as on signal_killed, the ship inheriting the formation leadership would start running the command of its former leader. However, this new ship does not have sectorlist/waypoints, and inheritance does not pass them. Thus, the new ship cannot run Patrol, and ends up in 'None'.

GMS will not help on the inheritance part, but will kick the 'None' to 'Attack all'. That is pretty much the only benefit of running GMS on patrol. Consumes CPU-time, unless one plans to regularly lose patrol leaders.

[spoidz]

Okay thanks, I sorta understand,

It just seemed easier to build a patrol group with GMS and then use it to patrol. I had no intention to give the wingmen any further commands, they would simply GMS "follow" the Lead as "he" patrolled.

I don't have an issue if dead leader kicks out the patrol, I'm checking their status routinely to see if they idle for too long.

Otherwise, am I hearing wrong, that GMS was more intended for use of groups with Player versus autonomous operations (other than acting as a group).

I guess I'll have to check the same issues when XfreakCartman releases his final FCSMk3.

For me at least the main thing I was hoping these categories of scripts would do was improve the capabilities of patrols, I hadn't really planned on using them in my own IIS or hands-on OOS battles.

Thanks again for all

[Jsimbo1]

ok this may be a really stupid question but is GMS a script that you have to download seperately from the bonus pack or should it automitically appear with the pack installed because i have the bonus pack and have been plauing for ages but have never come across the GMS even tho i have looked for it exhaustively. i have several carrier groups with large fighter wings and i badly need the GMS to save time, how do you get it? it doesnt appear in the commands menu even with every bit of software in the universe installed in my ship.

[beastytech]

A Couple of questions...

1. I spent ages building a Carrier with 40 Fighters, docked them all then began to create a group. When active in the carrier i created a group assigning 40 followers to it. When i completed the process EVERY fighter including the Carrier were tagged as LEAD. How can I remove this and start from scratch.

From reading i see the best thing to to if to get them all to work would be to undock all my ships... set them to follow my carrier then recreate the group while they are following or protecting my carrier correct? But how do i remvoe the group first?

2. If I am active in the carrier and i select my Group 1 to Attack Target or Protect Me or whatever... will they Undock and do what they are told? I noticed you said the Dock command is a Dock @ Target command... I'm a bit of a n00b and i will test later but can you target yourself if you are in a carrier so they will dock at 'Me'???

[Sandalpocalypse]

issue the setup group command and type -u as the name, then put anything for the other fields. that will unset the group.

are you sure you want all 40 fighters in one group? That could get a bit clumsy. In my opinion, GMS is better suited for more precise control. If you have forty fighters of the same type in a carrier you may want to look into something like Anarkis Carrier Commands.