Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[Shimrod]

Regarding patch downloads, it occurs to me that streaming them from a patch server/Steam could be problematic, versus being able to download patches as packages and store them locally.

When I was developing my scripts or simply evaluating total conversions, I would periodically reinstall X, either to go vanilla, or with XTM, XRM or other conversion to do compatibility testing. In this case I had the patches available locally so I could readily reinstall them.

I gather some people maintain multiple local installs so they can copy and paste back to known good configurations.

Not that I'm planning on buying it with Steam, but it sounds like it'd needs some kind of snapshot system for games so you can swap between configurations. Otherwise this could mean re-downloading the patches every time you want to revert to clean.

[X2-Eliah]

Can anyone tell me...if I have steam on more than one PC can I access my games on more than one PC?

Sure, your library is tied to your account, not a machine. One caveat - you can't be logged in at more than one machine at the same time - so, e.g., you can't play magicka with one hand while playing OMD with the other hand - but there's no problem mixing and matching as you want, and you can definitely play one, then log in at the other comp and play on that, then back, etc. etc. Just not simultaneously, that's all.

If you have steam cloud enabled (that's an online function though - so not if you plan to lurk offline), then the savegames will be stored and you will be able to play something on one machine, then continue it on another if you wish.

[Chris0132]

Regarding patch downloads, it occurs to me that streaming them could be problematic.

When I was developing my scripts or simply evaluating total conversions, I would periodically reinstall X, either to go vanilla, or with XTM, XRM or other conversion to do compatibility testing. In this case I had the patches available locally so I could readily reinstall them.

I gather some people maintain multiple local installs so they can revert back to known good configurations.

Not that I'm planning on buying it with Steam, but it sounds like it'd needs some kind of snapshot system for games so you can swap between configurations. Otherwise this could mean re-downloading the patches every time you want to revert to clean.

The backup system sort of does that, it creates an instaler for whatever data is stored in the steam archive on your computer. So installing from a backup would include any patches you downloaded.

The steam implementation does have some other things about it though, with half life 2, it actually keeps all the data in the gcf, and anything you put in the half life 2 folder is loaded OVER the stuff in the archive (gcf).

So in a sense, steam always has a vanilla snapshot of the game, if you want to revert to it, just delete the folder, and steam will load everything from the gcf.

Of course it may work differently for non-HL2 games. But it's worth investigating.

[Ketraar]

Not tested it, but I feel one might even be able to install steam say in a external HDD and run it from there, would make patching even less of a hussle. Mind I use the download speed at the my workplace too rather than at home and back-up/move them home. Was just wondering if it would work in with external HDD. If it does I might buy one just for that, given you get rather cheap HDD these days.

MFG

Ketraar

[Chris0132]

Not tested it, but I feel one might even be able to install steam say in a external HDD and run it from there, would make patching even less of a hussle. Mind I used the download speed at the my workplace rather than at home and back-up/move them home. Was just wondering if it would work in with external HDD. If it does I might buy one just for that, given you get rather cheap HDD these days.

MFG

Ketraar

Hmm.

Steam does use registry info so you might have a little difficulty getting it to run one more than one machine, but you can certainly keep the backups on one. It's what I used. Maybe even the raw GCFs?

Transfer rate is terrible though, takes like half an hour to copy a few of my backups across to my PC. That's an issue with USB connectors though, not steam. It just has to shift a lot of data.

You COULD in theory install an entire OS on a mobile drive, registry included, and then install steam on that, but that's a bit of a hassle in and of itself as you'd have to use the drive as a boot volume. It means restarting every time you want to play.

Or I guess you could try getting the registry info on two PCs, no idea how you'd do that though.

[Ketraar]

No I meant install Steam (and the apps) in external HDD, then run it from there. Should be similar to any other partition on PC, no?

MFG

Ketraar

[Chris0132]

No I meant install Steam (and the apps) in external HDD, then run it from there. Should be similar to any other partition on PC, no?

MFG

Ketraar

Yes, but what happens when you want to move that drive to another PC, try to run it, and then realise the registry data is located on the internal drive?

You could install it on an external drive like any other partition certainly, but unless it also installs all the registry info to that drive (which I don't think it would, it'd install it to the drive with windows on it surely?) then it probably won't run properly if you moved the drive to another PC. Which I thought was the point.

If you just want to install steam on a drive with crappy transfer rate though sure, don't see why that wouldn't work.

[Scoob]

Hmm, ok, I've done it.

The first thing that strikes me is that you HAVE to be in online mode to do a restore. Period. Also, once the restore is done (which hangs for a while doing bugger all, no net activity, no disk activity dunno why) steam will instantly start an update. Ok, for my demo there was no update, but that's what it WILL do if there is one.

No good whatsoever if you're in the "modded game" scenario when trying this.

Still, it was easy enough, I saved the 286mb bandwidth of downloading the demo again as the "disk" (backup) was on my network.

So, in summary, here's what I did.

. Steam on PC 1
. Games downloaded to PC 1 and working.
. Backup of Game to Network drive (could have been external drive I expect)
. Install of Steam Client on PC 2 - fairly small download of 1.5mb + update...I guess no more than 10mb in total.
. Got email of "New PC being used" and an unlock code.
. Use unlock code when prompted after launching Steam client on PC 2.
. Locate backup location and double-click steambackup.exe
. Follow prompts to restore of Game back to PC 2 - Steam in Online Mode
. Steam switched back to offline mode by me
. NIC of internet connection DISABLED by me.
. Try to launch Game....first time setup stuff...same "DX9" error as before...
. Click "Ok" on fail message...game launches lol.
. Game works.

Ok, so this method still requires the PC you play on to be online while both Installing the Steam client and restoring the game. But, after that, you can drop offline.

This, in the case of this simple 286mb demo, has saved me from downloading that 286mb. If that'd been a 7gb, or more, full game install I'd be rather pleased. Maybe this method would prove workable to those with a poor home connection? I.e. Steam on laptop / work machine (careful, I'd NOT do this at my work!) backup to external drive, restore on home PC that has limited Internet. Save yourself some bandwidth.

It's slightly clunky, but simple enough.

Oh to confirm, I was logged out of steam on PC 1 when doing this.

If I get the chance I will remove Steam from ALL my PC's and re-install the client on an External HDD connected to PC 1, then try to plug said drive into PC 2 - PC 2 which is of course also registered to my account now.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[Ketraar]

Well I got USB 3.0 so no issue there

But regarding the registry info, I had steam on C: and then realised I had not enough space set up for it to hold all the games I wanted to (plus a ton of other rather havy duty aps that take lots of space) so I took the steam folder, moved it to D: and all was good, only had to change the shortcut path and no issue. Hence me asking.

MFG

Ketraar

[Chris0132]

Well I got USB 3.0 so no issue there

But regarding the registry info, I had steam on C: and then realised I had not enough space set up for it to hold all the games I wanted to (plus a ton of other rather havy duty aps that take lots of space) so I took the steam folder, moved it to D: and all was good, only had to change the shortcut path and no issue. Hence me asking.

MFG

Ketraar

Maybe steam is more self contained than I would have thought.

You could always try putting it on an external drive if you like, won't hurt anything I don't imagine.

[Scoob]

I've got eSATA so no issue there

Very interesting that the Steam folder was so very easy to move...you know, I think I will try moving my steam folder on PC 1 to a mobile device...it's only about 1.5gb with the two demos installed so won't take long...

Btw: I've now removed steam from PC 2 and run a clean up - nothing left after the surprisingly clean uninstall process. Just a couple of registry entries for the firewall rules left over. CCleaner tidied that up.

Now running an MS Security Essentials scan - that's all I have on my Gamer for security, the MS stuff. It is only online for update though...and steam for this testing

Scoob.

[fairywhipper]

A bit fiddly, but steam is an online distribution platform, it isn't really supposed to support people without the internet.

I think Chris0132 has said a missing link for this thread about steam.
Steam is fiddly to organise for people with little or no internet because it is not designed with people with little or no internet capacity.

Using 1 pc to download steam + updates etc to 2nd pc through backup idea, it verify a second installation/backup of steam and password, does this still require reactivation and connection on the 2nd pc? i mean if 2nd pc was completely isolated from internet?

[Chris0132]

A bit fiddly, but steam is an online distribution platform, it isn't really supposed to support people without the internet.

I think Chris0132 has said a missing link for this thread about steam.
Steam is fiddly to organise for people with little or no internet because it is not designed with people with little or no internet capacity.

Using 1 pc to download steam + updates etc to 2nd pc through backup idea, it verify a second installation/backup of steam and password, does this still require reactivation and connection on the 2nd pc? i mean if 2nd pc was completely isolated from internet?

Yes you do need to log on and activate a bit to run a game from a backup the first time.

Otherwise I could install steam on a bunch of computers with a bunch of different accounts, disconnect them from the net, then install a backup on all of them and now I have five or six computers which can all play the game at the same time. Steam is also a DRM system, it does like its activations.

[VincentTH]

Not tested it, but I feel one might even be able to install steam say in a external HDD and run it from there, would make patching even less of a hussle. Mind I use the download speed at the my workplace too rather than at home and back-up/move them home. Was just wondering if it would work in with external HDD. If it does I might buy one just for that, given you get rather cheap HDD these days.

MFG

Ketraar

It may work at work if your employer IT does not have a firewall. Mine does, so no Steam at work for me (online that is). In the past I just download the X3TC update at Ego's website.
That's why I have requested that Steam run in HTTP/HTTPS for authentication and download only (no open Steam ports should be required, since I am not playing an MP game).

Please stop saying this only apply to me only. A lot of University students are also behind a firewall.

[EDIT] At work, I have a T1 connection, so download time is usually 1/4 of what I have at home. That's why I download all of my GamersGate game online at work (The Anno series, just in case someone need to know). I cannot do it with Steam games because Steam insists on connecting via game ports, despite the fact that the X games so far are Single Player games.
I hope Bernd would allow GamesGate to be an alternate source for X:R. I know that's not what Ego devs wanted (having to deal with only 1 Steamworks API only), but for a few of us - a minority yes - Steam is a no go, unless they change and allow HTTP/HTTPS connection for authentication and patch.

[fairywhipper]

so in a way the backup idea will still need reactivation and all we are doing is moving it from 1 pc to another which could save download limits for limited bandwidth and capped downloads.
ok just checking.

[Chris0132]

so in a way the backup idea will still need reactivation and all we are doing is moving it from 1 pc to another which could save download limits for limited bandwidth and capped downloads.
ok just checking.

Yeah it's purely if you have a friend who has no download limit or whatever. He can download the data, back it up, you can install it and activate it. It doesn't solve any problems if you have NO internet, only if you have very limited internet.

[Scoob]

Hi,

If your chosen gaming PC has NO internet access then forget about steam. Simple as that.

If however, your gaming PC has connectivity but it's just poor you have options.

Use a laptop or whatever, at a friends / work* / university*/ Internet Cafe / local wifi hotspot etc. to download Steam and games and updates onto said laptop. Then backup/restore onto your gamer using it's limited connection to re-authenticate etc. Lots of bandwidth saved there. You can then play in offline mode until you need to update.

I've not tried installing directly to an external drive myself yet, however it looks like that is a viable option if, for example, you were to pop round to a friends to do it.

By it's very nature Steam is going to slightly restrictive for some, but there do indeed appear to be ways to make it work for you if you're main reason is simply a poor connection. This is assuming that you're not so far out in the wilds that you cannot actually access a reasonable connection somewhere.

If you buy the DVD version I think you'd be ok with limited internet and a little patience and this backup technique will help when a large update becomes available that you cannot manage on your personal connection.

* If you're allowed.

Cheers,

Scoob.

P.S. "Orcs Must Die!" demo...lol, honest mindless fun

[Ketraar]

using Google I came up with a few links on people explaining that in general it works on external HDD, but may have some issues if you actually want to play in various PCs. Also Steam FAQ does not recommend runing it from HDD due to performance (might be outdated if you have high-speed external hdd and ports).

While I see its not recommended to actually play in different PC specially if they differ much in hardware/software I'm pretty confident that if used just to play in one PC and use other merely for the update it should work. This would save the backup/restore step which can take about 20-30 min (7GB) to restore/backup.

I might go for this option given I like to keep some games installed even if I don't play them for some time, but hate the waiting should the urge come.

MFG

Ketraar

[Scoob]

Yeah, I think the whole external drive thing has potential, if your hardware is recent enough to support USB 3.0 or eSATA and the drive is good.

I have one caddy on USB 2.0 with an older 2.5" 120gb SATA drive - it's dead slow, 30-40mB/s when transfering data. I have a 2nd 2.5" drive that's a newer 320gb one in a USB/eSATA caddy that's a lot faster, but still slower than my 3.5" internal drives.

Maybe an SSD in a USB 3.0 / eSATA caddy would do the business...

Still, the extra minutes to copy to your gaming systems fastest drive is well worth it when EVERY gameplay session will be faster from that point on.

It's good to know there are a fair few options available though. I am still documenting all this as things are posted and I try stuff.

Cheers,

Scoob.

[VincentTH]

Yeah, I think the whole external drive thing has potential, if your hardware is recent enough to support USB 3.0 or eSATA and the drive is good.

I have one caddy on USB 2.0 with an older 2.5" 120gb SATA drive - it's dead slow, 30-40mB/s when transfering data. I have a 2nd 2.5" drive that's a newer 320gb one in a USB/eSATA caddy that's a lot faster, but still slower than my 3.5" internal drives.

Maybe an SSD in a USB 3.0 / eSATA caddy would do the business...

Still, the extra minutes to copy to your gaming systems fastest drive is well worth it when EVERY gameplay session will be faster from that point on.

It's good to know there are a fair few options available though. I am still documenting all this as things are posted and I try stuff.

Cheers,

Scoob.

You must be filthy rich Have you looked at the price of a, say, 128GB SSD drive lately?