Litcube's Universe

[CassCE]

Hint, don't setup RoE with many fighters to avoid huge performance drop due to many missiles in air.

Of course, but without the missiles the M3s wouldn't be super useful against the OCV, so I'll just live through it for a few minutes. And just the number of M3's in the air causes issues, the extra lag from the missiles isn't that noticeable. Still, I need to drop the Poltergeist fire rate back a notch or two.

It is a bug in vanilla LU ...

Ah, that explains it. I had the percentage calculation fix installed previously, but left it off this time since I had seen somewhere that you recommended not using it because of some issues. Completely forgot about that! I'll just reinstall it, as I wasn't really noticing any problems with FR's. I did have one issue where a FR from an MLCC dock was set to pick up missiles from a secondary SCH and it would never work, but that was easy enough to get around.

I don't mind testing out the new scripts though, if you want to put them up.

Thanks again for your help and SIaF!

[Litcube]

Hint, don't setup RoE with many fighters to avoid huge performance drop due to many missiles in air.

Of course, but without the missiles the M3s wouldn't be super useful against the OCV,

I play with missile equipped fighters a lot. I don't notice a lag.

[CassCE]

Ran into another problem after the import, I'm afraid.

The OCV had been quiet for a while (too quiet...), so I jumped over there to see what was up. The deca.fades are making runs to their front-line station in Cobra Gamma, but the station's ware stocks are never increasing. The M5's have cargo on them, I scanned them to check, but they leave the station with the same amount they came in with. I reloaded the Revelation original scripts that are included with the Revelation Plus archive to see if anything changed, but no luck.

Any suggestions?

[dizzy]

Don't know how Phanon Plus/Revelation Plus work with E/I, the import/export script likely only knows to deal with the original versions. In the worst case you could disable the OCV and re-enable them but then they lose any progress they had I think.

Why did you do an E/I?

I avoided RoE because my battles were already slow enough without any of that. It's enough to deploy 200+ fighters, 90+ corvettes, 30+ capitals of various sizes against an OCV sector and FPS will drop significantly. I imagine RoE can make things multiple times worse as each fighter now starts firing missiles which need to be tracked by the engine.

As for the updated Percentage Calculation Fix, uploaded it here, that download link expires in 48 hours. Let me know how that works for you, remember, I haven't tested it so better backup the files you overwrite with that zip.

[Wanabe]

Ran into another problem after the import, I'm afraid.

The OCV had been quiet for a while (too quiet...), so I jumped over there to see what was up. The deca.fades are making runs to their front-line station in Cobra Gamma, but the station's ware stocks are never increasing. The M5's have cargo on them, I scanned them to check, but they leave the station with the same amount they came in with. I reloaded the Revelation original scripts that are included with the Revelation Plus archive to see if anything changed, but no luck.

Any suggestions?

This is a problem with Revelation Plus. I did not do anything with the export/import function for it or Phanon Plus. Revelation Plus changes one of the station resources to another but the native export still tries to save the old removed resource. Basically after the export they're starved of a single resource type and need to generate and transport more to the front line which may take a while. I'm not sure without more specific information (or a savegame) but I would guess that the front line OCV station is already full of the resources the freighters are carrying, which means the freighters are going to go back and pick up more of those same resources until they're full and keep trying to drop them off and fail, effectively causing the freight train to fall over. I don't have the time to look into that possible issue properly right now but I'll certainly make a note of it.

Changing back to original Revelation scripts in this case won't do a lot because the export file itself has recorded nothing for that particular resource that it is looking for.

I did release a new version of Rev+ today to prevent that from occurring in the future by including a slightly modified Export file which points to the changed resources properly in new exports. The new file is not automatically placed into the scripts folder on install/unzipping, however, and must be placed manually into the scripts folder. (@Litcube sorry for probably breaking good modding standards and practices with this one )

Anyway, sorry about that issue. You could try to re-export with the latest version with that script placed into the scripts folder perhaps if that's not too much hassle. Maybe they'll sort themselves out but if the freighters are truly full of resources they can't drop off I'm not so sure about that. If continuing the game without doing a new export perhaps you could edit the /t/8385.xml file increasing how much resources they generate at their HQ for a time. It still needs to be transported but this could help accumulate a surplus at home to improve overall transportation

[CassCE]

Memeics - I was seeing if a fresh install would help the lag issues I was having. It did seem to help some.

I installed the updated scripts, I'll run them a while and see if I notice anything unusual.

Wanabe - What ware did you change from and to? Orange Mineral appears to be the issue here. The M5's are indeed almost full of the stuff, although they are carrying a Red Crystal/Mineral or 2. They will sometimes drop off the Red types, but not the Orange Mineral, so it doesn't seem to be a case of simply taking time to build stock levels back up. I say they'd sometimes drop off the Red types, because the M5's I observed at the front line station of Cobra Gamma would drop off the one or two Red Crystal they were carrying, but the M5's I watched at Kraken Eta and Magnetar Zeta (who had a more balanced load of Orange Mineral and Red Crystal) would dock at their home station, drop off neither, and head back out.

The OCV stations have Orange Mineral, Red Crystal, and Red Mineral as listed wares. They're not full of anything, basically <50 on all three, except the stations way behind the front lines (Ares Iota and further back). Those have ~2.5k of all three wares and their M5's are just docked up, waiting. There's no gradual increase in stock levels, like I would expect, as you get closer to their home sector. It's just a sharp cutoff, no stock to 2.5k in stock.

The OCV home station in Unknown Sector Omega has ~8.8k of each resource, which makes it full of Orange.

It all seems a bit screwy!

It appears resetting OCV might be the best way to proceed, and probably give their M5's a cargo space boost to speed up ware propagation. I'm fine with using the Script Editor if there was a way to add/remove ware types and/or change ware numbers that would resolve it, but with the odd M5 behavior I'm not sure that would help.

[Jack08]

(@Litcube sorry for probably breaking good modding standards and practices with this one

That may be more then an understatement the EI is extensible:

Would this help you? https://code.google.com/p/litcubesunive ... RegisterEI

[dizzy]

Would this help you? https://code.google.com/p/litcubesunive ... RegisterEI

Oh OK... now I have no excuse to not add E/I support for my scripts

[Wanabe]

(@Litcube sorry for probably breaking good modding standards and practices with this one

That may be more then an understatement the EI is extensible:

Would this help you? https://code.google.com/p/litcubesunive ... RegisterEI

absolutely an understatement =P. I did actually look at that link and thanks to its straight forward explanation set it up to save a global variable separately that I had added with Rev Plus. I could not make up my mind when it came to saving the slightly modified resources, though. If it was a unique mod needing to save something unique to it I would of just gone with the custom EI stuff but I guess I'm in a weird position I think (default export file already does what's needed and also loads properly but just *very* slightly off for my changes).

Anyway, thanks for posting that as a response. I'll try to sort it out under my own EI stuff to incorporate the change in a more proper manner next time I release an update for it and ditch the modified export file. While I'm at it I'll probably stop including some of Memeics libraries and add his mods as an install requirement...because including libraries like that is also kinda dumb


@CassCE I changed Purple Mineral to Red Mineral. If you like, feel free to upload a save file and perhaps sending me a PM or posting it in the RevPlus forum thread and also state what mods were being run with it. I'll download it and have a look at it eventually and tweak things to get the freighters to deal with that scenario. I'm not entirely certain if I'll get something out "soon" or "later", like next month for example, though.

What I think is happening is after the export all the stations wanted the missing Mineral. The freighters go to pick it up, can't find any and so pick up whatever they can to bring back, not knowing they can't actually drop off what they've just picked up. Once they're full they simply get stuck as the station they're dropping it off to can't consume the materials. In normal circumstances this is not likely to happen but because of the extreme of the missing resource across their various sectors this seems to be the case.

The issues you're facing are definitely to do with changes in RevPlus and so I would guess that any more posts on that issue might be more appropriately posted in the Rev Plus thread. Sorry for your troubles.

[CassCE]

It's not that big a deal to me, Wanabe, I don't mind just resetting them. If you'd like a save for testing to figure out a fix, though, I'll see what I have available. Thanks for your help on this!

[dizzy]

CassCE, since you reported some performance issues, note my last post in the Phanon Plus thread, there are a ton of Phanon script global tasks running when there should be maximum one and those might explain your performance issues (and why it works better after an E/I). But they will creep up again and things will be slow again if that's the cause of the performance problem. They also likely result in my game for SETA going slow (not talking about stuttering, simply the game slows down the SETA factor, everything is smooth but time passing is slow not accelearated).

[CassCE]

Oh nice, I'll check it out

[Dani_Gecko]

I really don't understand how to set up MLCC.

I found a shark bailed, assigned it to a starliner dock, set the dock as homebase, installed the MLCC on the dock, configured in the MLCC window the carrier command, set M3 to 40 and gave it a blueprint for a cougar outfitted as it should be, hinted the restock from dock to a fighter dock also with MLCC installed. I hit the 'restock' button, but nothing happens. The pHQ has enough resources to build all fighters and all needes upgrade licences bought. I have SCHs for all needed weapons and missiles and freighters assigned to the star liner dock and fighters dock.

My understanding was:
The shark sees it has not enough fighters so orders some at pHQ (up to the set 40), which get upgraded at pHQ (engine tuning etc.), sent to the fighter dock, get outfitted with weapons and missiles and finally send and homebased to the shark. But nothing happens.

I'm not sure what about "The MLCC is a system providing you a whole suit of features that enable you to automate outfitting, fuelling, and carrying out predefined attack strategies. " (stated at Litcube's wiki) I didn't understand.

[CassCE]

Buy another EQD, the more expensive OTAS one or another race dock with unlimited internal docking for fighters and big ships. I think Boron is the only race dock that qualifies. To be safe I'd use the OTAS one, I've never tried running it with the Boron EQD. Install MLCC on it.

Run off however many spare M3's you want. I keep about 50% of my M1's carrying capacity in spares, but if you're just getting started you can only run off a couple for now to keep costs down. Use the template equip function of the HQ's Dockware Manager to equip them, set their homebase to your new Hangar EQD, and send them over to it with one click.

Bring up the MLCC console, and use the Configuration option. Bring up the Shark's configuration page, scroll down to the bottom of the page and set the M1's hanger to the fighter's EQD.

Next time the M1 retreats or restocks it will order spares up to its capacity or all available M3's, whichever is smaller. Damaged fighters will also dock at the PHQ for repairs. Repairing M3's and restocking them is not automated. You have to manually do production runs, and manually template equip them. You all have to tell the PHQ to repair docked and damaged M3's, and reset their home base to the Hanger EQD and send them home after repairs are over.

[Dani_Gecko]

Repairing M3's and restocking them is not automated. You have to manually do production runs, and manually template equip them. You all have to tell the PHQ to repair docked and damaged M3's, and reset their home base to the Hanger EQD and send them home after repairs are over.

So the automated process means restocking only (fighters with missiles and the Shark with fighters?), not including the building-from-scratch process. All right, thanks for your fast answer!

EDIT: I implemented your suggestion. Now, the starliner dock wants missiles for the fighters not the fighter dock. are the missiles supplied via internal transport? An idea emerges: when I stock my shark with missiles, will the fighter (during battle)dock and restock from it's inventory?

[CassCE]

Yeah the Hanger dock and the Shark's dock will both stock missiles. The hanger will stock for the fighters it has home-based there and the Shark's dock will stock missiles for the Shark's fighters plus the Shark's missile resupply, if you've set that.

Unfortunately, MLCC doesn't support in-combat restocking of fighter's missiles that I am aware of. As far as I know MLCC will never dock fighters (so no resupply), until a retreat command is issued, or the engagement rules tell the carrier to retreat.

There's a way around this, though. My Emeus is set to carry like 800 Tornado missiles of its own, and it has Carrier Command Software installed. If I know my fighters are running low I can issue a Return Home command in the carrier's Combat -> Carrier command menu, which docks all the fighters. They will then restock their missiles from the carrier's stock, according to the fighter's resupply settings. At this point you have to manually command and control the carrier as the MLCC control of the carrier has been broken, and the only way to reset it to awaiting go code is to issue the retreat command and wait for it to finish the retreat/restocking process. It's one of a few things I wish MLCC did better.

[BlackArchon]

Is there any reason to use station agents for my SCHs to sell their products? Getting their wares by freighter to my PHQ (product set to overstock) and then sell them by my dock agents seems to make them redundant.

[CassCE]

Is there any reason to use station agents for my SCHs to sell their products? Getting their wares by freighter to my PHQ (product set to overstock) and then sell them by my dock agents seems to make them redundant.

No, there's not much reason to assign SA's to individual SCH's once you've centralized your logistics through your PHQ, not that I am aware of, at least.

The only exception that I use to that rule is for high volume low value items like energy cells and ore that I'd rather my PHQ's DAs not get bogged down selling. DA's lack any logic for running high value trades before low value, so if you're getting overstocked on ecells or ore or silicon or whatever, they may get stuck making runs to sell a couple hundred thousand credits worth of ecells while ignoring the billion credits worth of weapons you have waiting.

Personally I just enable race traders on those SCH's and set a low selling price with a relatively high export threshold, just make sure it's far above the source threshold for your PHQ. I have used SA's to help clear backlog in the past, though. Obviously, you can always assign more DA's to the PHQ but the cost of doing that compared to the value of selling a few more ecells or whatever hasn't been worth it to me.

[dizzy]

Is there any reason to use station agents for my SCHs to sell their products? Getting their wares by freighter to my PHQ (product set to overstock) and then sell them by my dock agents seems to make them redundant.

No reason for selling stuff once you have a PHQ for self-sufficient complexes (like the SCH0 but if they need to buy anything (for open loop complexes) then they are obviously very useful.

[BlackArchon]

Thank you for your replies! Now I'm gonna buy some more freighters...