Coronavirus: COVID-19

[felter]

Just to stay with how bad I think Johnson is and how bad I think he did with Covid-19 virus, especially at the start. He has now begun to pass the buck and blame others for his serious mistakes that cost thousands of lives. This time it is the elderly care hones that were at mistake, not him, but right from the start he tried to hide what was happening in care homes by ignoring them and not wanting the deaths in them to be reported. He needs to be held accountable for a lot of deaths that occurred because of his bad decisions and mishandling.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Just to stay with how bad I think Johnson is and how bad I think he did with Covid-19 virus, especially at the start. He has now begun to pass the buck and blame others for his serious mistakes that cost thousands of lives. This time it is the elderly care hones that were at mistake, not him, but right from the start he tried to hide what was happening in care homes by ignoring them and not wanting the deaths in them to be reported. He needs to be held accountable for a lot of deaths that occurred because of his bad decisions and mishandling.

That sounds a lot like Lombardia... Put covid infects into rehab / relief centers for elders to avoid saying "hospitals are full of covid patients". Then watch them infect and kill something like half the population of those centers, blaming the central government because he didn't send enough face masks.

[mr.WHO]

At the early stage of COVID I joke about that this virus has been made to take care of elderly people.
I didn't though someone would actually try to do this (like NYC actually putting infected into elderly care centers).

[Grim Lock]

At the early stage of COVID I joke about that this virus has been made to take care of elderly people.
I didn't though someone would actually try to do this (like NYC actually putting infected into elderly care centers).

Source?

[mr.WHO]

At the early stage of COVID I joke about that this virus has been made to take care of elderly people.
I didn't though someone would actually try to do this (like NYC actually putting infected into elderly care centers).

Source?

Article by AP:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/centr ... sing-homes

[Grim Lock]

At the early stage of COVID I joke about that this virus has been made to take care of elderly people.
I didn't though someone would actually try to do this (like NYC actually putting infected into elderly care centers).

Source?

Article by AP:
https://spectrumlocalnews.com/nys/centr ... sing-homes

Well after reading the article, i personally conclude that it's all hardly as intentional as you made it seem from just dropping a sentence, it looks like a stupid idea poorly executed, but i can hardly conclude the intent was spread the virus and kill of as many elderly people as possible. Again still a misguided and stupid plan, though, but the current US is bursting at the seems with stupid ideas and misguided actions, all of them culminating in the US not having covid under control for a long long time.

[mr.WHO]

Well, I don't claim someone did it intentionally, but at some point someone would think "why let the good virus go to waste"? Pensions and and elderly health care cost huge amount of money and there would be less outrage from mass death of 60+ than some young working taxpayers.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Well, I don't claim someone did it intentionally, but at some point someone would think "why let the good virus go to waste"? Pensions and and elderly health care cost huge amount of money and there would be less outrage from mass death of 60+ than some young working taxpayers.

It's not about pensions, it's about how much those structures gained with their rooms full of patients. At least that's how it worked in Italy. Remember that it's the people making this kind of choices, not the government.

[Grim Lock]

Well, I don't claim someone did it intentionally,

But at some point someone would think "why let the good virus go to waste"? Pensions and and elderly health care cost huge amount of money and there would be less outrage from mass death of 60+ than some young working taxpayers.

[euclid]

Covid-19 may be airborn as most recent WHO information suggest.

Cheers Euclid

[fiksal]

Covid-19 may be airborn as most recent WHO information suggest.

Cheers Euclid

So much for the two meter desistance if that's so.

And even more for going back into public.

[mr.WHO]

You're missing the crucial part "...MAY BE...".

Haven't we seen such flip flop statements from WHO in last several months?
Like spreading panic that asymptomatic cases might spread virus uncontrolaly, but then several days ago they changed the tune to strongly suggesting asymptomatic cases are not spreading the virus (unless you really try, like kiss or lick asympromatic person).

Or that COVID may be stay alive on surface for 10-15 days? This was also debunked as useless data from unnatural/laboratory conditions and reduced to 2-5 days for normal day to day surfaces.

Since then I ignore are statements which contain significant degree of uncertainty.

It really starts to looks like WHO turned to tabloid that follow rumors and clicks rather than serious organization that follow the facts and data. "Oh, here is the one article that is unchecked, unconfirmend, but sounds serious. Quick! lets publish it before anyone else, we'll check the facts later" - the WHO today.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

People is speculating too much, and WHO too. Aerial transmission means a lot of things, technically if you cough you transmit the virus, and that's aerial transmission. That's the reason of masks in the first place.
The problem is WHO looks confused recently, like they don't really know basic communication skills. You're WHO, you need to only say things you're sure about, or else you'll look just like the random guy on Facebook telling people to drink soda to cure a broken ankle.

[Ketraar]

You're WHO, you need to only say things you're sure about

While I agree that communication is key, this is a wrong statement. People have a wrong notion of how science works, and only saying things that are for sure would bring any advance in science to a halt. The issue is not WHO, its the people making headlines and those reading them. More often then not, the real message has nuance and context, but both these concepts are incompatible with a society that has the attention span of Dory and no will to read things.

In a case where people's health is at stake, its even worse, you need to take the precaution route and tell people that "MAYBE this can happen" and so its safer to assume it does until we know for sure, as the opposite would have potential grave consequences on peoples lives.

MFG

Ketraar

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

Apparently, sick Bolsonaro was at US ambassador's party a few days ago, just before testing positive to Covid https://www.businessinsider.com/bolsona ... 020-7?IR=T.
Obviously no face masks, no social distancing, ... Business as usual.
Meanwhile, facemasks sales are down recently in Italy, with new cases here and there rising a bit.

[mr.WHO]

In a case where people's health is at stake, its even worse, you need to take the precaution route and tell people that "MAYBE this can happen" and so its safer to assume it does until we know for sure, as the opposite would have potential grave consequences on peoples lives.

Yeah and sooner or later we'll end with hoax situation that started the whole anti-vacine movement in USA.
"mercury in vacine MAY cause autism". This is two-edge sword.

I don't have problem with WHO working slow - this is the issue of ALL international organizations.
I do have problem with WHO undermining it's own reputation by spewing uncheked data one moment and debuking it later.

However I think that half of the blame should be on media side, because, probably, I hope so, official WHO communication has a disclamer about how confirmed/checked/tested things are.

You might laught at Trump, but these days every single major organization and company should have an entire PR-department just for clearing the fake news and misreporting on media side.
You would have to be a full-time old style journalist (because modern day "journalism" is a joke) to just dig through all this shit.

[pjknibbs]

Apparently there were more than 900 Covid deaths in the US yesterday, the highest since June 10th...things definitely ain't going in the right direction over there.

[mr.WHO]

I'm rather suprised that this time, that slow and inneficient Europe seems to fare better than USA.

EU initally fu**** up with coherent response, but national states organized quite well the close borders and lockdowns.
Italy was hit bad, but it was first. Blaming Italy now would be like blaming Poland for not faring well against Blitzkrieg. The joke is that back then and now France did not fare much better, despite having more time to react

Now that situation is (more or less) under control by national states, the EU come with stimulus package that hopefully reboot the economy (or turn entire EU into bigger Greece - that's the option too with all those credits to be paid by EU in next 50 years).

Lockdowns and travel bans are slowly lifted across the Europe.

Seems like everybody is doing OK job to their size and competence without much interference to eachother...


...meanwhile in USA:
President try to FU with governors,
Governors try to FU with mayors,
Mayors try to FU with rioters/protesters,
Rioters/protesters try to FU with their neighbourhood and families (go to protest and then kiss your family with COVID ),
Corporations try to FU with everyone but mostly their staff (e.g. Microsoft will close all retail shops and go full digital).

Where is that sane, no bull and down to business America from my childhood?

We are truly living in interesting times.

[BrasatoAlBarolo]

I'm rather suprised that this time, that slow and inneficient Europe seems to fare better than USA.

EU initally fu**** up with coherent response, but national states organized quite well the close borders and lockdowns.
Italy was hit bad, but it was first. Blaming Italy now would be like blaming Poland for not faring well against Blitzkrieg. The joke is that back then and now France did not fare much better, despite having more time to react

Now that situation is (more or less) under control by national states, the EU come with stimulus package that hopefully reboot the economy (or turn entire EU into bigger Greece - that's the option too with all those credits to be paid by EU in next 50 years).

Lockdowns and travel bans are slowly lifted across the Europe.

Seems like everybody is doing OK job to their size and competence without much interference to eachother...


...meanwhile in USA:
President try to FU with governors,
Governors try to FU with mayors,
Mayors try to FU with rioters/protesters,
Rioters/protesters try to FU with their neighbourhood and families (go to protest and then kiss your family with COVID ),
Corporations try to FU with everyone but mostly their staff (e.g. Microsoft will close all retail shops and go full digital).

Where is that sane, no bull and down to business America from my childhood?

We are truly living in interesting times.

Italy gave somehow the example: you need to close everything fast, or else you're ending like us, with tens of thousands cases. The rest of Europe took the hint and did a better job.

Now, we're having a number of cases from international flights (apparently there are potentially hundreds of infected from flights from Bangladesh to Rome). Yet people has almost stopped wearing masks.

[felter]

Apparently there were more than 900 Covid deaths in the US yesterday, the highest since June 10th...things definitely ain't going in the right direction over there.

Not just that, they also managed to hit 60k with new infections yesterday. No sarcasm this time, now they truly do hold the record of any country for the most recorded new infections in a single day.

Myself I was awoken today with a text message from the Scottish government telling me they are changing some of the recommendations for shielders and they were announcing the changes at 12:30 BST, so I was to watch the beeb if I wanted to know what they were. Absolute waste of my time, it was mainly for families with kids under 18, so nothing has changed here.

My sisters fella is coming up from England next Wednesday, she hasn't seen him since mid March so that is new. He is definitely banned from coming near our house, especially seeing as he is coming from England that place is still a mess for the virus, no where near under control there. Things are definitely getting better but there is still a long way to go.

I also want to defend the WHO, they have been doing a good job. Have there been mistakes made by them, yes most certainly but they have admitted they made mistakes, and they are trying to right those mistakes. You have to remember that this is all new to them too, they have never had to deal with something like this before. The first step to correcting those mistakes made and improving on those mistake, is admitting that mistakes were made in the first place. Unlike the likes of Trump and Johnson, who are refusing they made mistakes and are instead blaming others for their mistakes, how do you learn by doing that.