Scoob wrote:The thing is, Bernds video and various posts pre-release suggest that my proposal is what we were supposed getting. In the absence of that (currently) I'd at least hope it's still their vision. I actually did a rather leading (as in, I knew how people would vote) poll not so long ago about "real" vs Spawned ships and one of the replies mentioned that "real" was still what they were going for, they just weren't there yet.Roger L.S. Griffiths wrote:An awful lot would need to change for Scoob's proposal to become practical for ALL factions and it becomes a bit of a chicken and the egg situation overall.
You need a working economic model for the proposal to make sense and there is no guarantee that implementing said proposal would address enough issues in the current model to make it a viable solution overall.
There are way too many variables to be able say unequivocally either way.
Let's not try to run before we can walk, the consequences to the game if Scoob's proposal proves impractical is the whole thing could break - and I think none of us really want that.
Personally, I think the game is pretty close already. The economy is nearly there (outstanding bugs & balance aside) which is what's needed to support "real" ships rather than insta-spawns. Sure, it's a balancing act and it's a given that a degree of cheating by the AI may well be needed at times - let's say NPC Faction can "Call on reserves" if things get really critical. These "reserves" might be Ships or resources, the latter to top up a station that's been starved for an extended period for example. Also, imagine what it would do for the economy if Shipyards were regularly HUNGRY? Yes, they'd likely even want to buy those crappy drones we've all produced hundreds of! lol.
For me, Factions ordering their ships at shipyards is a key component. This is what makes ships "real", they were built using resources supplied by the economy - either with or without player input. This is one of the things that makes the economy "real" too of course. Ships build so very very fast currently (minutes, for an Arawn, that's crazy!) that, while certainly slower than insta-spawning, should still be workable. Combine that with larger ships able to jump and fly to their destinations in just a few minutes, well, once again, the game supports what's needed.
I'd like to see the AI smart enough to actually assemble fleets if that's what's needed. I.e. OL building a fleet for an attack on Xenon space for example. HoA building a fleet for the assault on PMC. The player would feel involved in the universe simply from to the emergent behaviour of DEMAND and being able to speed up production of the fleet by helping supply the Shipyard and supporting factories.
Really, making things "real" would enhance this game no end, and give us our "living, breathing universe" or get much closer at least. The basic framework is there, Shipyards DO produce ships using wares after all. It's just that other jobs in the game need to use this mechanic. In theory, working in-game supply and demand (aka "The Economy") should support this.
So, the "The whole thing could break" point is, well, it's already broken with insta-spawning as the work-around, isn't it?
I really do feel the game is pretty darn close to being able to satisfy my (and I think Egosoft too) vision of the game.
Real is good
Scoob.
There is serious balance problems with Shipyard manufacturing, I saw the Shipyard in Omicron constructing a Fulmekron Destroyer, it took an estimated 7 hours to build, same situation with Freighters as well, I had a CV built cause I was building a Hardware Supplier, it took 40 minutes to build.
Whether my save was bugged or there is a serious re-balancing issue needed here as Albion Ships take about a minute or less to build.
Most likely bugs are the cause.