Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[apricotslice]

Previous methods were hidden installs, subject to activation limits, caused conflicts with devices / software and notoriously difficult to remove without doing a full re-install of Windows...

So I'll give you the stock answer that steam people are using constantly.......it has never given me any problems.

And you could do exactly the same with Steam's offline mode...

Round and round the merry go round we go.

How many times in this thread has it already been mentioned that offline mode doesnt work for everyone.

And given that XR will come out with major bugs that require an immediate patch, and then be followed by at least 2 more patches in the next few months, going offline and not getting the patches is not an option.

Thats the whole thing. I want the patches downloadable from here so I can control when they get downloaded, and when I install them. With Steam, they wont be available here and steam gives you zero control.

Its all been said a hundred times already in this thread.

Offline mode is NOT an acceptable option.

[the-danzorz]

That won't work, as you can't control what people post in a thread. And as has been shown in here, and as you say, people will keep posting the same things and disagreeing with each other and arguing over the same points.

I think it may be a little late now, but it may have been worth creating a new thread with more balanced poll options. And this thread is now so huge finding anything is hard work - I didn't fancy trying to dig out Bernd's comment suggesting Steam was not an adequate DRM on it's own.

BTW - the main point is not whether the game should come out on Steam, but whether there should be a non Steam choice. It is just the arguments that have become "Steam is great" vs "Steam is the devil's tool".

Tim

There should defiantly be a Disc version of XR for a large amount of reasons, and that also then means the distribution costs will remain the same. As a result they can afford to release a stand alone version that doesn't work on steam and get the same profit.

Also didn't egosoft make more profit from there egosoft store then they did steam? i can see why they want a steam version, digital download means there is more DVD versions and stock won't run out fast (huge problem of stock with the egosoft store before).

[vr01]

Its all been said a hundred times already in this thread.

On that we agree!!!

[smeggysmeg]

Given the choice between Steam and something like SecuROM, I would take Steam.

I understand the need for current game publishers to be concerned about limiting piracy, and I understand the value of having an easy-to-use update path.

My problem with SecuROM and similar systems are that they often make low-level system alterations in Windows, causing all sorts of system instabilities, incompatibilities, etc.. It's essentially like any other rootkit. This is a universal problem.

The advantage with Steam is that, usually, it works as expected without significantly interrupting what you're wanting to do. It doesn't have a rootkit functionality. Most of the time, its offline functionality works, as well.

Its only real downside is ideological/principle(which I admit, matters to a lot of people), or the nuisance of the extra step of starting the application.
I don't like the idea of Steam, but it's the lesser evil that businesses in this market will accept.

[David Howland]

smeggysmeg,
Did someone bribe you to mention the forbidden WHITE ELEPHANT subject so they would have an excuse to lock this thread down?
Well timed though, just when the threads author is going to be away for a couple of weeks!

[notaterran]

I hope that we don’t have to be connected to the internet to play the game. Not everyone has their main computer online, and this one is not exactly a gaming rig (it can barely play Human Revolution on high settings). That’s the reason I skipped Silent Hunter V. I bought games that do not require internet connection to be either played or updated, but it would be nice to buy Rebirth too. Did Oblivion ship with online verification? Will Skyrim ship with one? If you have to be online to play Rebirth, I don’t think this computer could handle the game on high settings.

[exogenesis]

Round and round we go.

But we don't actually know what degree of steam will actually apply to rebirth.
Do we, yet ?

Personally I don't even want online activation, let alone auto-patching or intrusive background online-forcing apps.
or info-collecting (seems the offline mode is probably inadequate, reading through all this thread)

Should the existing player/customer base who don't want steam walk
away now, or is still there some hope of a non-steam (only) version ?

Can't keep this uncertainty up for too much longer before I lose interest anyway,
even although I've have found X-games to be a really involving part of my imagination-fun life up to now.

[Deleted User]

Round and round we go.

But we don't actually know what degree of steam will actually apply to rebirth.
Do we, yet ?

There is only one degree of steam, that being that steam is required to install, play and update X rebirth.

[exogenesis]

That's not so, X3:TC was 'steam enhanced' after the fact,
no requirement on my part to install the steam engine.

[Deleted User]

That's not so, X3:TC was 'steam enhanced' after the fact,
no requirement on my part to install the steam engine.

You are correct, but in my opinion that took place as a marketing tool. It would have been noted as to how many decided to link x3tc retail to steam. It would also be noted how many subsequently jumped through hoops to get the 'reward' from the steam summer sale.

Ego/deepsilver have chosen a path.

Its up to you as an individual if you want to go down that path.

[VincentTH]

That's not so, X3:TC was 'steam enhanced' after the fact,
no requirement on my part to install the steam engine.

Having a non-Steam option was available with X3:TC. That option is no longer available with X:R according to Bernd (likely to happen according to Bernd). That's why we are complaining.

We are NOT denying the Steam camp to have their beloved Steam. We just ask to have the same option with XR as with X3TC (having a single player option without Steam).

[Laden Swallow]

Just a note that I think should be added:

Champions Online, a free to play MMO which I downloaded from steam can be made to launch without the steam process running by using pin to taskbar functionality of windows. As the game launches using a launcher that will itself check for game updates. The same I believe applies to Global Agenda (a now free to play MMO, that was initially a 'buy' to play MMO rather than a 'bleed through the nose continuously' (aka WOW) to play MMO) that I had initially 'bought.'

Maybe Egosoft at some point down the line could introduce a patch that makes their own launcher capable of launching the game without the steam process running.

[Shimrod]

Maybe Egosoft at some point down the line could introduce a patch that makes their own launcher capable of launching the game without the steam process running.

In terms of the download part Steam probably just copies the game files into a folder and has nothing more to do with it, save knowing what exe to launch the game with. You can run the files without the Steam service.

However with the 'steamworks integration' there's going to be code inside the game exe that chatters away to the steam service asking if its allowed to start, a heartbeat to check if service is still running, and support apis for Steam's fluff features like achievements and so forth.

The best we can hope for is that they encapsulate that stuff in a way that can potentially be disabled in future patch via registry key, around the same timeframe they'd normally remove a CD check. Thereafter a non steam DVD version could be released in a gold box that sets the reg key at install and you have a standalone version that's binary compatible with the Steam version, which simplifies patching.

[X2-Eliah]

Mm, not really, all games sold through steam have their exes rigged to launch steam itself. Full steamworks integration means the achievements and that social stuffs (plus, I guess, valve's anti-cheat thingamajig), but the base requirement to have steam running to play (online OR offline mode) is rigged to all exes coming off of steam-sold games.

[Deleted User]

[quote
The best we can hope for is that they encapsulate that stuff in a way that can potentially be disabled in future patch via registry key, around the same timeframe they'd normally remove a CD check.

Forget it. Once your tied to steam, you're tied to steam. There will be no get out clause.

[Lion Around]

I've got TC on Steam and I regret it for years now.

I got X3:TC from steam for less than 5 bucks. I don't see any reason to regret it. Since none of the X games I've played are not even worth more than 10 bucks, I'd say I got a really good bargain.

I plan to wait for Rebirth to hit a bargain price like 5 bucks or so before I buy it.

[henkbein]

If Steam bothered to truly support a game-type called 'Single Player' i would actually accept Steam.
Once-only online verification would not be a problem for me (even people with bad internet may be able to do this).
And Patches and new DLC would not require continuous online mode. Just 2 buttons in the steam client: "Verify for Updates" and "Verify for new DLC". If clicked i go online. My decision.



I almost forgot you, Texhnolyzed:

Valve is very small? That really shows how much you know.
...And they won't be taken over ...

You did not actually bother to check my statement, did you ?
You just boldly stepped in and defended what you were told is everlasting good. I hail you, Paladin of the Order of Valve

But please verify if Valve is a big company or not.
To help you on your way, compare Valve's size to companies like Sony (Network hack), RIM (Blackberry server f1u2c3k4u5p), ... etc.
Once you and i have established that Valve is a small player in software-land, we can truly discuss how rock-solid Valve's services are.

...And if you are careless, it sure is easy to get hacked.

I find this on all Steam-related forum discussions again and again.
So again: it's not about my account getting hacked. It's about an account-database getting hacked.

[Texhnolyzed]

Valve is very small? That really shows how much you know....And they won't be taken over ...

But please verify if Valve is a big company or not.
To help you on your way, compare Valve's size to companies like Sony (Network hack), RIM (Blackberry server f1u2c3k4u5p), ... etc.
Once you and i have established that Valve is a small player in software-land, we can truly discuss how rock-solid Valve's services are.

You are seriously comparing Valve, a game developer, to companies like Sony and RIM? They are not the same kind of company... not at all. You could compare Valve to Stardock, or maybe EA.

And no service is really "rock solid". Valve got more experience in the Online Community field though, so I would say it is at least more secure than PSN.

[henkbein]

You are seriously comparing Valve, a game developer, to companies like Sony and RIM? They are not the same kind of company...

Valve's Steam (nothing to do with game development), Sony's hacked services, RIM's Blackberry services: they are based on exactly the same principle. I'm feeling quite save to compare them. Please contradict me.

And no service is really "rock solid".

And so Steam - by your own words - is not rock solid. I rest my case.

Valve got more experience in the Online Community field though

This is a bold statement. Can you elaborate on where Sony and RIM failed and Steam will forever succeed ?

[Texhnolyzed]

Valve's Steam (nothing to do with game development), Sony's hacked services, RIM's Blackberry services: they are based on exactly the same principle. I'm feeling quite save to compare them. Please contradict me.

How amusing. First your posts are about the companies, but now they're about the services themselves. When comparing those, Steam surely is not small. The amount of Steam users isn't all too far from PSN... not sure about RIM's thing, never heard of it.

And so Steam - by your own words - is not rock solid. I rest my case.

Duh. Of course there's the possibility, I never denied that. Or did I? Feel free to remind me where.

This is a bold statement. Can you elaborate on where Sony and RIM failed and Steam will forever succeed ?

Where did I state that Steam will "forever succeed"? Thing is. Steam is big, growing constantly and gaining popularity for good reason. I don't see it going away any time soon. And I would say that PSN and RIM failed earlier, because Steam is better and more secure. Well, I know for sure that it is vastly superior to PSN.