X-Rebirth: The story of the failed console game

Playbahnosh · Post by **Playbahnosh** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:52

Chips wrote:So again, could it not possibly be for something else - other than X? Examining a future into other games/areas? Are they not allowed to do this in your mind?

Just think about it: Egosoft never made anything else BUT space sims for the PC (aside from a couple of arcade games for the Amiga in the early 90's). They've been developing the X series only for more than a decade. Their first and only foray into console development failed horribly and we can all see the end result since friday. Do you honestly expect them to start developing handheld games all of a sudden and be successful at it?

Im12 · Post by **Im12** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:52

Pretty sure others did this already but I would like to point out that searching the X rebirth files for the string "xbox" yielded:

[ external image ]

I checked out a couple of the hits and they're xbox360 shader references.. I don't even.. lol.

wasdie · Post by **wasdie** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:53

Chips wrote:
Playbahnosh wrote: The first I've seen this, but this is horrible. The console programming I can understand in the light what has been uncovered about Rebirth, but Handheld/DS programming?! WHAT THE HELL? I've made a snide remark about Egosoft stooping to make shovelware toilet games for the iPad...but it coming true...

*cries*
So wait, Egosoft are only ever allowed to make one game? X3+ Nothing else, no branching into other streams, no attempting to make other titles.

Just X3+

I know what you're thinking - "this means it acn only possibly be for making X3 into a DS handheld" - but honestly, really really think. When Bernd said they can't even get it working on current Xbox/PS consoles due to memory limitations... the DS?

So again, could it not possibly be for something else - other than X? Examining a future into other games/areas? Are they not allowed to do this in your mind?

There is no real logic with this entire theory. Just very upset people trying to rationalize why this game has turned out the way it has. Nothing more.

orcinus · Post by **orcinus** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 16:58

iphoria wrote:Why has no one mentioned one of the most obviously damning pieces of evidence... DirectX 9 graphics in an age of not Dx10, but Dx11!!! Especially weird in light of all the hoo-hah about great space graphics. And guess what DirectX the Xbox360 just happens to be based on?

This. DirectX 10 was released back in 2006. They've supposedly built a new engine for X:R. Why on earth would you decide to build a new engine from scratch using an old API instead of the new one?

As a point of reference, XNA is locked into using DX9 as well. Guess why - Xbox compatibility. Funny part is, Microsoft tried to rationalize it as being due to "implementing DX10/11 support being too complicated". Then, when it didn't catch on, except on Xbox, remarketed it on Windows Phone.

But i digress. Point is, whenever you see an engine (or a framework) newer than 2006. that's locked into using DX9, it's likely due to Xbox compatibility.

wasdie · Post by **wasdie** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:02

orcinus wrote:
iphoria wrote:Why has no one mentioned one of the most obviously damning pieces of evidence... DirectX 9 graphics in an age of not Dx10, but Dx11!!! Especially weird in light of all the hoo-hah about great space graphics. And guess what DirectX the Xbox360 just happens to be based on?
This. DirectX 10 was released back in 2006. They've supposedly built a new engine for X:R. Why on earth would you decide to build a new engine from scratch using an old API instead of the new one?

As a point of reference, XNA is locked into using DX9 as well. Guess why - Xbox compatibility. Funny part is, Microsoft tried to rationalize it as being due to "implementing DX10/11 support being too complicated". Then, when it didn't catch on, except on Xbox, remarketed it on Windows Phone.

But i digress. Point is, whenever you see an engine (or a framework) newer than 2006. that's locked into using DX9, it's likely due to Xbox compatibility.

Not really. Planetside 2 came out last year as a PC exclusive and is only DX9. It's really more of what the developer is comfortable with. They probably started building this graphics engine back when DX10 had just come out and thus didn't bother with it because when DX10 came out noboody had DX10 cards and there was no real reason to develop for DX10.

Skip ahead a few years and their small team was probably very comfortable with the engine they had made and was too far along to go back and rewrite stuff in DX10/11. I see this in software development all of the time.

The engine is far more than just the graphics renderer too. I can tell that most stuff in it is brand new and hasn't been tested much outside of their office of probably mid-range PCs (Egosoft doesn't strike me as a company that has a lot of money for constant upgrades).

Artificer · Post by **Artificer** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:15

yogs wrote:Do not believe their lies. Xbox360 markers in the shaders file.

http://i.imgur.com/8H5fsDy.png

Eugh!

I had promised myself I wasn't going to log into these forums over Rebirth, but I had to just to note how ridiculously damning this is, it stands as an outright contradiction of what Zav said earlier and catches him totally red-handed in a lie to the community.

orcinus · Post by **orcinus** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:23

wasdie wrote:Not really. Planetside 2 came out last year as a PC exclusive and is only DX9. It's really more of what the developer is comfortable with. They probably started building this graphics engine back when DX10 had just come out and thus didn't bother with it because when DX10 came out noboody had DX10 cards and there was no real reason to develop for DX10.

Forgelight engine has been in development since at least 2009. (first mentions of it online). And was developed with capabilities of prev-gen (then current-gen) consoles in mind (PS3, to be precise - and yes, i'm fully aware PS3 has nothing to do with DX, but its capabilities, as far as shaders, hardware tessellation etc. are concerned, seem more in line with what DX9 offers). So Planetside probably isn't the best example.

But yes, you're right, it's entirely possible they were just more comfortable with DX9 and didn't have the resources to switch later on.

Oberscht · Post by **Oberscht** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:24

You don't even have to argue about DirectX. X3 had real-time reflections, I remember trying to do screenshots of ships but there was always a planet or sun or something behind the camera that was reflected in the hull.
Now, I can't remember a single actual reflection in any of the XR screenshots. Metal looks rather dull, like in X2.
Now, guess what graphical effect is famous for missing from engines with a focus on consoles.

orcinus · Post by **orcinus** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:32

To be honest, and now that you've mentioned it, X:R engine looks more dated to me than X3's. It reeks of cheap visual saccharine that lulls people into oohing and aahing at a first glance, but isn't that far from current gen iOS / Android graphics when you scratch the oversaturated, contrast pumped, J J Abrams anamorphic flare infested surface.

I didn't originally want to comment on it because i think of this as part of art direction, not an actual indicator of quality. De gustibus non disputandum and all that.

Some people like it cartoony, some like it gritty and desaturated. I'm not really sure if it warrants ranting, as long as i don't know if there was a "hidden agenda" behind it (i.e. covering up crappy texture work, low poly designs and an incompetent engine) or if it truly is a sincere deviation in art direction (i.e. let's make it more light-hearted, cartoony and bright).

leecarter · Post by **leecarter** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:43

It has become painfully obvious that Egosoft has dumped a failed console game on us. Any further denying of that by them is only going to generate more rage. Just come clean and admit it guys.

This is "only a game" and I have far more important things to concern myself with in life, but still I feel lied to and taken advantage of.

Noimageavaiable · Post by **Noimageavaiable** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 17:44

Playbahnosh wrote:The first I've seen this, but this is horrible.

It has been brought up before release, quite a while ago. Some guy opening a thread about how they were going to port this to consoles. No one paid much heed. If only we had known.

devorrio · Post by **devorrio** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:06

I was thinking... and then I google it, seems that Xbox supports only directx 9

*360 only supports DirectX 9.0c. The 360's graphic card is unable to support DirectX 10. It should however be noted that one of the DX10 extensions is found in the 360's DX API - i forgot which one it is.*

*The Xbox 360's GPU supports a modified version of DirectX 9. The GPU in the current 360 can not support DirectX10.*

Now now, all those pieces are falling together and starting to fit nicely.

firstprice · Post by **firstprice** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:09

It all makes sense now.
What were they trying to achieve with this?

dubnium · Post by **dubnium** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:14

firstprice wrote:It all makes sense now.
What were they trying to achieve with this?

stab the decade-old community in the back to make a fortune off console peasants. too bad egosoft apparently can only make either pc space sim masterpieces or console trash even a peasant couldn't stomach.

ajax34i · Post by **ajax34i** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:17

Regarding the fanbase being lost and faith being unfixable, this is the same fanbase that patiently waited through the two years of NO NEWS at all from Egosoft, and then came back to flood the forums with no hard feelings whatsoever at the smallest mention of anything. This is the fanbase that created its own entertainment (42 rounds of Forum Quest) to help itself with the wait.

Why would Egosoft "come clean" or "reveal the truth" or any such thing? Companies don't do that, that's not how PR is done.

What they will do is fix the bugs (as you can see, they've already made a post assuring us that they're looking at the most critical ones), and try to manage the negative publicity on the forums and with the critics. And that's what a lot of the playerbase is waiting for, and we're very good at waiting and keeping ourselves occupied while we wait.

Fascism is Magic · Post by **Fascism is Magic** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:18

firstprice wrote:It all makes sense now.
What were they trying to achieve with this?

Remember how they said the game's been in development for 7 years? This tiny, cut down sandbox?

They're trying to recoup 7 years of sunk costs by slapping the X brand on a failed project and hoping no one notices.

Captain Lemmiwinks · Post by **Captain Lemmiwinks** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:18

Noimageavaiable wrote:
Playbahnosh wrote:The first I've seen this, but this is horrible.
It has been brought up before release, quite a while ago. Some guy opening a thread about how they were going to port this to consoles. No one paid much heed. If only we had known.

oh it got attention

masses of replies "play it first before saying that"

mods saying "please dont spread rumours you cannot confirm"

even a ban warning.

and not one apology since

SunofVich · Post by **SunofVich** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:20

When someone says "I've done the research and this is the bad things I found." My first impression is that this person is a crackpot conspiracy theorist as they say the same exact thing.

We will probably never know why they designed the game the way they did. The only proof of that will come when the game is announced to be released on the PS4 or/and Xbone. And by then they will likely have fixed all the issues currently in the game.

Cronos988 · Post by **Cronos988** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:24

SunofVich wrote:When someone says "I've done the research and this is the bad things I found." My first impression is that this person is a crackpot conspiracy theorist as they say the same exact thing.

We will probably never know why they designed the game the way they did. The only proof of that will come when the game is announced to be released on the PS4 or/and Xbone. And by then they will likely have fixed all the issues currently in the game.

I think you misunderstand: The theory is that the game was, 7 years ago, planned as an Xbox 360 title. When that failed, they tried to salvage the project by releasing it on PC.

dev0 · Post by **dev0** » Sun, 17. Nov 13, 18:37

Maybe EGOSOFT just couldn't handle making game on xbox... Why ? Coding on xbox is not as easy as coding on PC, you are caped by hardware of the platform and other things... That's why this game was so crippled... but it wasn't enough maybe..
Microsoft gives you 400 pages of requirements that you need to comply with.
You are sending them version of the game for approve , then they are telling you whats wrong, what you need to change, what is missing etc etc..
For some new indie studios that were making first console games it took months-years just making microsoft happy so they would approve the release. A lot of projects were abandoned.. like this one i suppose.. but its only my theory. Anyway after first reviews will see the daylight this game is dead to xbox anyway.. 7 years making this game omg.. what a waste of time.. I know couple of things about game developing and i can tell you that making this game should take MAX 3-4 years for this studio(that have already experience with economy mechanics,fighting mechanics,UI,agents in space etc from X-series), it's totally maximum in the state (totally broken mechanics, most of it doesn't work properly) that game is atm. What took another 3-4 years.. ?

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

X-Rebirth: The story of the failed console game