Oculus Rift

[Zloth]

As another programmer who has been using 3D Vision for years, I'll tell you for sure it's not THAT simple.

The UI certainly does not stay the same. Crosshairs are always tricky things, for instance. If you just put a cross dead center on the screen, it won't work in S3D. The player will either see two crosshairs or two targets depending on where his eyes are focusing! So you've got to make the crosshair itself 3D and have it jump to the depth of the target. That's not so easy, either, as you'll have to have the code decide what is and isn't a target.

But this game doesn't use simple crosshairs, does it? You're supposed to be leading the target! So how does that work? If you put the crosshair at the target's depth and you're leading the target, how is the game supposed to know what you're actually targeting?? Maybe, instead of a target, you could display a faint targeting pipe that shows where your bullets will be going at all depths - so you're actually trying to get the target into the "bullet hose"?

There are lots of other things, too. Quite a few engines take shortcuts here and there. Shadows, for instance, often show up in 2D because they aren't really being rendered in the 3D world. Those shortcuts are there for a reason, too - without them the game will run slower.

There are DEFINITELY costs here. It is NOT "quite simple." I certainly hope Egosoft is willing to do it but I'm not going to be shocked if they wait a year after game release before they do it.

[michaelr513]

OR + VAC + gamepad/joystick + buttkicker (chair mounted rumbler) would be very close to full immersion for me. Playing the latest iteration of my favorite game series and occasionally forgetting I was playing a game would be worth every penny for the setup. I really hope they add support for OR at some point.

[Inverness]

As another programmer who has been using 3D Vision for years, I'll tell you for sure it's not THAT simple.

The UI certainly does not stay the same. Crosshairs are always tricky things, for instance. If you just put a cross dead center on the screen, it won't work in S3D. The player will either see two crosshairs or two targets depending on where his eyes are focusing! So you've got to make the crosshair itself 3D and have it jump to the depth of the target. That's not so easy, either, as you'll have to have the code decide what is and isn't a target.

But this game doesn't use simple crosshairs, does it? You're supposed to be leading the target! So how does that work? If you put the crosshair at the target's depth and you're leading the target, how is the game supposed to know what you're actually targeting?? Maybe, instead of a target, you could display a faint targeting pipe that shows where your bullets will be going at all depths - so you're actually trying to get the target into the "bullet hose"?

There are lots of other things, too. Quite a few engines take shortcuts here and there. Shadows, for instance, often show up in 2D because they aren't really being rendered in the 3D world. Those shortcuts are there for a reason, too - without them the game will run slower.

There are DEFINITELY costs here. It is NOT "quite simple." I certainly hope Egosoft is willing to do it but I'm not going to be shocked if they wait a year after game release before they do it.

The images given to your eyes with the OR are focused at infinity. Also, considering X Rebirth is a game where you select targets, there should be no problem with the game knowing what you're actually targeting. Your claims don't seem like they apply to the OR. It's not the same as 3D Vision. With that in mind I still disagree with you.

Keep in mind that you aren't necessarily trying to render things in 3D Vision in the way you mean. You've got a screen for each eye and you have to render the game twice so its like you're looking at one, gigantic screen.

Excerpt:

Instead of using two displays to offer two separate images for stereoscopic 3D, the Oculus Rift uses a single LCD screen built into the HMD. Any compatible software splits the picture into side-by-side 3D and renders it into a warped circular view to work with the Rift's lenses, producing the 3D effect. This is actually a brilliant way to handle the 3D effect, because it lets the Oculus Rift appear to the connected computer as a second monitor that can handle a normal video feed, and means neither the computer nor the HMD have to do complicated video processing to show 3D. In fact, if you mirror the display so it shows the output to the Oculus Rift on a monitor, it shows the un-lensed, un-separated image the Rift is receiving: two circular views of the same image, slightly adjusted to produce a 3D effect when separated and seen through lenses. Everything happens inside the software, away from the display adapter and HMD.

Edit: Now that I've thought about it more, I think you're right in saying that it will take time to implement, but not for the reasons you think.

The problem is the Albion Skunk's cockpit. It's currently set up for someone that is viewing the game through a 2D monitor which you can't do that with the Rift. It needs to be modeled for someone that is sitting in it and is looking around at the HUD or various displays. With the way the Rift works, you can't glance at something to the left with your eyes without turning your head because the vision is sharper in the center compared to the edges to match the way your eyes perceives things. If your health and speed and weapon information needs to always stay in view it will have to go around a HUD that stays in your vision, otherwise they need to be on panels in the cockpit you can look down at.

This also offers exciting possibilities for custom displays. You could have a whole set of custom displays in the cockpit for various things like important messages or status about your property or secondary displays of other objects that you could just turn your head and look at instead of having to open something on the menu. I'm getting giddy just thinking about it.

[Night Nord]

HUD could never be properly implemented for 3D. You need actual eye-tracking to get player's focus point and recalibrate your "on-screen" images to keep in focus. It's not only about HUD, but also about weapons and other stuff that is close to camera.

[Inverness]

HUD could never be properly implemented for 3D. You need actual eye-tracking to get player's focus point and recalibrate your "on-screen" images to keep in focus. It's not only about HUD, but also about weapons and other stuff that is close to camera.

Again, that isn't how the Rift works. Your eyes will be focused at infinity while wearing it. Each eye gets a slightly different image like how your eyes work. There are games with HUDs that already have implemented support for the OR, just take a look at those.

[Hardscript]

People who don't know how the rift works need to stopp thinking they do and making false cclaims about it

[Inverness]

People who don't know how the rift works need to stopp thinking they do and making false cclaims about it

That seems to be the trend. It would be nice if someone could make a thread that could provide information on the Rift, how its different than old 3D Vision systems, and how the Rift features would/could be applied to X Rebirth.

I think being able to customize the screens of your cockpit and being able to just look around and them to take things in, and having a HUD be seen through an actual object in your ship like how fighter pilots experience it would be a very compelling thing. Coincidentally its also a good argument in favor of the single ship deal that Egosoft is going with. It would make it a much more personal experience.

[Hardscript]

The problem is the rift is something that CANNOT be explained or shown in a video in anyway that will actually inform the user of what it is truly like inside one.

Because of this people make false assumptions and dismiss or shun it.

[Inverness]

The problem is the rift is something that CANNOT be explained or shown in a video in anyway that will actually inform the user of what it is truly like inside one.

Because of this people make false assumptions and dismiss or shun it.

Just explaining why it's not like 3D Vision or things like that is enough I think. Or just saying that the Rift is like having a giant screen that takes up your whole field of vision where you can move your head to look around.

This also seems like a good explanation: http://www.roadtovr.com/2013/05/26/what ... -rift-6090

[Hardscript]

See just there you made me picture your idea of the rift and it was bad and wrong. The rift is NOT like having a giant screen on your face. It is like a window to another world strapped to your head.

[Inverness]

See just there you made me picture your idea of the rift and it was bad and wrong. The rift is NOT like having a giant screen on your face. It is like a window to another world strapped to your head.

Ah, that does sound like a better explanation. I'll use yours from now on.

[DaMuncha]

Well technically it is having a smart phone strapped to your face, but the lenses focus it properly and the view for each eye is slightly offset to make it look 3D, but what the big difference is when you move your head it tracks your head movement almost instantly to make it seem like you are in another 3D space.

[Hardscript]

Yes Technically that is true. However explaining the rift like that does not accurately describe the experience of using it.

[Inverness]

Yes Technically that is true. However explaining the rift like that does not accurately describe the experience of using it.

Well it can at least be described by what it is not, which is 3D Vision.

Anyhow, I'm hoping a dev could give some input on what they could do if they supported the Oculus Rift. Things like the moddable and customizable displays for your cockpit as ship upgrades and such seems interesting. You could also do something interesting like having the drone control screen only cover one eye and look through it like you might look through a rifle's scope.

Or another idea, being able to man a turret on one of your capital ships and have it work like the turrets on the Millennium Falcon with the moving sphere.

[DaMuncha]

Heres a new video of sum ships in Star Citizen. The demo is being played with the Oculus Rift.

Try (un)crossing your eyes till the L and R image overlap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ct7oTvZSHTs

This is how I want X rebirth to look. The shaders and lighting looks very clean and detailed. the color pallet is realistic and the lighting is correct.

Graphically, Star Citizen is going to beat the pants off of X Rebirth.

[Inverness]

This is how I want X rebirth to look. The shaders and lighting looks very clean and detailed. the color pallet is realistic and the lighting is correct.

Graphically, Star Citizen is going to beat the pants off of X Rebirth.

Nothing in that video is in-game. Trying to say Star Citizen will be superior in graphics to X Rebirth because of that is silly.

[DaMuncha]

Thats not in-game?

[Inverness]

Thats not in-game?

Unless they said it was in-game in the video (I did not have audio enabled) what makes you think that wasn't pre-rendered? Drawing a single ship with great quality in a closed environment is easy when you don't have to render a whole scene.

[Comet]

The footage was rendered in game. Don't forget that Star Citizen is aiming for a 2014-2015 release.
If you look at X-Rebirth footage this graphics quality isn't that much different.

Other than that, Star Citizen won't "beat the crap" of X-Rebirth because:

1st - They'll both be great games with their own pros and cons.
2nd - X-Rebirth is a game that is coming out in November and that it will do THIS YEAR many of the things we space sim fans have been waiting for.
Star Citizen is only coming out in late 2014 or 2015 but it will offer gamers other experiences, such as an online universe.

Egosoft more than deserves the space sim community support.
They have never given up on this genre even though it is considered (up until the crowd funding success of Star Citizen) a niche market.

I'm a Chris Roberts fan, and I'm an early backer of Star Citizen. Wasted $100s supporting that campaign because I want this genre to get back into the spotlight.

The best example I can give you is this.
I loved playing the Elder Scrolls games, but I also loved playing The Witcher games.
I loved the Lord Of the Rings movies, but I also love the Game Of Thrones TV series.

Get my point?

Back to the topic.
We will (unfortunately) have to wait for a quality consumer level Oculus Rift to come out.
But it is coming. According to the Oculus guys we won't have to wait two years for it to come out. There is no official release date, but it all points to a 2014 release date.
http://www.edge-online.com/news/oculus- ... ut-mobile/

[Divine Shadow]

I hear you need two working eyes to use the occulus rift...

So that's not happening for me unless they make one that covers just one eye.