Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[the-danzorz]

Putting your dramatic declaration aside, its regrettable that you're going to miss out on the next game in a series that you really like because it requires Steam for activation.

Hmm good luck uinstalling steam and keep playing XR. Only for activation yeah right..

Activate the game, set to offline mode. Problem solved.

I have run offline mode for months, i have only been asked to log back into steam maybe once or twice in that time. just for a small steam update, then i switched back to offline mode.

Just disable auto-updating of the game and problem solved.

To stop Steam downloading content for individual games, it is necessary to click on the 'Games' button on the Steam main page. For each game that is listed in the Games dialogue, you will need to right click on each game and select 'Properties'.

You will then see a section on the Properties panel that says 'Automatic updates'. You will need to change the dropdown under this section so that it reads 'Do not automatically update this game'.

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

[Shimrod]

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

Sadly I believe this will be true. Most odd though that these developers and publishers either do not acknowledge a segment of the market will not buy that stuff, or that extra profits could be had by selling into the segment.

Seems unlikely they are ignorant of the problem if there are widespread Steam threads going around for each Steam game (wrt. Skyrim linkage from earlier posts), with people saying they're not going to buy it.

So publishers are either executing a novel business model of throttling their profits, or making a concerted (every new game on shelf now having steamworks on the back) strategic play to squeeze the traditional segment out of PC gaming entirely.

So what's the endgame they're looking for? Could be to drop boxed sales altogether and save on the distribution costs, and maximize profits by cutting the game store out of the sales chain? Shooting for a Steam monopoly perhaps where the prices can be maintained at fixed level in the online store?
Simply an attempt to stamp out second hand sales on PC games? Assert complete control over how, when and where a user can play a game? All of the above?

Time will tell. One thing is for sure, it's not a strategy with my best interests at heart. I certainly won't be contributing a penny towards it.

[VincentTH]

Putting your dramatic declaration aside, its regrettable that you're going to miss out on the next game in a series that you really like because it requires Steam for activation.

Hmm good luck uinstalling steam and keep playing XR. Only for activation yeah right..

Activate the game, set to offline mode. Problem solved.

I have run offline mode for months, i have only been asked to log back into steam maybe once or twice in that time. just for a small steam update, then i switched back to offline mode.

Just disable auto-updating of the game and problem solved.

To stop Steam downloading content for individual games, it is necessary to click on the 'Games' button on the Steam main page. For each game that is listed in the Games dialogue, you will need to right click on each game and select 'Properties'.

You will then see a section on the Properties panel that says 'Automatic updates'. You will need to change the dropdown under this section so that it reads 'Do not automatically update this game'.

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

In case you missed it, let me politely redirect you to this Skyrim on Steamworks thread

Putting Steam on permanent offline mode is rather a laborious task, not something easy you can do by clicking one or 2 buttons. Even if you do that, it is not guaranteed to work 100% of the time.

Please don't quickly label be as a Steam hater. I do like the convenience of Steam when I am at home and with high bandwidth connection, but I do have long period of time where I can't login to Steam (at the in-laws, on business trip at airports waiting for flights etc). I used to believe it is possible to just activate once and forget about Steam, but it does not work that way. There is a big difference between Steam registered game (X3TC) and Steamworks game (X:R). The later requires Steam to run in order to play the game.

[Yapa]

I have all my X games on Steam and will be purchasing any new X games ONLY on steam

[the-danzorz]

Putting your dramatic declaration aside, its regrettable that you're going to miss out on the next game in a series that you really like because it requires Steam for activation.

Hmm good luck uinstalling steam and keep playing XR. Only for activation yeah right..

Activate the game, set to offline mode. Problem solved.

I have run offline mode for months, i have only been asked to log back into steam maybe once or twice in that time. just for a small steam update, then i switched back to offline mode.

Just disable auto-updating of the game and problem solved.

To stop Steam downloading content for individual games, it is necessary to click on the 'Games' button on the Steam main page. For each game that is listed in the Games dialogue, you will need to right click on each game and select 'Properties'.

You will then see a section on the Properties panel that says 'Automatic updates'. You will need to change the dropdown under this section so that it reads 'Do not automatically update this game'.

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

In case you missed it, let me politely redirect you to this Skyrim on Steamworks thread

Putting Steam on permanent offline mode is rather a laborious task, not something easy you can do by clicking one or 2 buttons. Even if you do that, it is not guaranteed to work 100% of the time.

Please don't quickly label be as a Steam hater. I do like the convenience of Steam when I am at home and with high bandwidth connection, but I do have long period of time where I can't login to Steam. I used to believe it is possible to just activate once and forget about Steam, but it does not work that way. There is a big difference between Steam registered game (X3TC) and Steamworks game (X:R). The later requires Steam to run in order to play the game.

Yeah, not like you can block it with one click on your firewall or adding it to be blocked in your host file inside windows. Which is equal to one or two clicks (not recommended though). That will keep it on offline mode until its regular check to make sure none of the games are pirated.

[thetack]

what the hell does it matter how easy putting steam offline is, steam is not going on my pc at all.
the other thing is if the game is going to be picked up by many more users than the x searie it is eather going to

1 be a total flop with hundreds of thousands of its too hard, i have to think posts and Egos name turned to mud

or

2 even more simple and easy than TC which was far to easy and boring until the mods started arriving to make you think.

if option 1 i am realy sad for Bernd and the crew and if option 2 i will wait for it on the wii

edit typo

[the-danzorz]

what the hell does it matter how easy putting steam offline is, steam is not going on my pc at all.
the other thing is if the game is going to be picked up by many more users than the x searie it is eather going to

1 be a total flop with hundreds of thousands of its too hard, i have to think posts and Egos name turned to mud

or

2 even more simple and easy than TC which was far to easy and boring until the mods started arriving to make you think.

if option 1 i am realy sad for Bernd and the crew and if option 2 i will wait for it on the wii

edit typo

If your reason for not using steam is because its a form of DRM, Or a game manager, then you sir. Leave the PC gaming scene as within the next few years there will be hardly any form of PC games that will be stand alone from this sort of thing.

The offline mode matters to those who have low bandwidth or networking issues and can't risk the bandwidth being spent by steam. That is what this is directed at and what you were commenting on.

Edit:

If you lose your internet while playing on steam, you don't get logged out of the game. Just the community, unless it is an online game (for those unsure of that)

[X2-Eliah]

1 and 2 are completely irrelevant on Steam or not steam, though. Actually - 1 - so you don't want Egosoft to sell more than a few thousand copies?


Or, oh, sorry - should the game only be available to non-steam purists, because all steamusers will do is 'complain about it being too hard for them'?
Damn elitist.

[Slashman]

Sadly I believe this will be true. Most odd though that these developers and publishers either do not acknowledge a segment of the market will not buy that stuff, or that extra profits could be had by selling into the segment.

How big is the segment? No one here has been able to answer that question. The most we know is that there are a couple hundred people on the Egosoft forums who are very vocal about never using Steam. apart from that...no one has hard evidence to say how much of the Egosoft playerbase is represented by that opinion.

Seems unlikely they are ignorant of the problem if there are widespread Steam threads going around for each Steam game (wrt. Skyrim linkage from earlier posts), with people saying they're not going to buy it.

Here's an interesting story: Back when I used to play MMOs and I played City of Heroes, around issue 5 or so, the developers made a decision to significantly alter the way enhancements affected powers in the game. It equated to a significant reduction in power for most characters who slotted powers in a certain ways.

The forums literally exploded with post from people threatening to quit the game and warnings to the developers that the game would fail if they ignored the players who wanted the old system. People prophesied the end of of all things City of Heroes. Polls were run and petitions when to the devs.

In the end...the changes were made and not much else really happened. The adjustments really did make the game better despite some people not having their way. Emotions and strong personal opinions from a small sample of a market aren't things that developers/publishers can afford to base decisions on.

So publishers are either executing a novel business model of throttling their profits, or making a concerted (every new game on shelf now having steamworks on the back) strategic play to squeeze the traditional segment out of PC gaming entirely.

I doubt that's whats happening. What seems to be the case, IMO, is that more and more people are embracing this distribution model because of its convenience, easy of use and other benefits. I think that actually surprised the game industry. In much the same way that iTunes was a shock to the system of the recording industry who could never see past CD/Record sales.

So what's the endgame they're looking for? Could be to drop boxed sales altogether and save on the distribution costs, and maximize profits by cutting the game store out of the sales chain? Shooting for a Steam monopoly perhaps where the prices can be maintained at fixed level in the online store?
Simply an attempt to stamp out second hand sales on PC games? Assert complete control over how, when and where a user can play a game? All of the above?

I don't think they are shooting for a Steam monopoly since EA has started its own distribution service as well. If it proves viable, more publishers may well follow suit(those that can afford to).

I can't remember second hand PC game sales being that big of a market to start with so I'm not sure on that one.

As for asserting control over when I play, so far only Blizzard and Ubisoft have pulled this stunt. It didn't work out so great for Ubisoft. I'm waiting to see how Blizzard makes out...but since they are turning the Diablo franchise into a RMT thing, I don't know what's going to happen there. I do hope it fails though.

Time will tell. One thing is for sure, it's not a strategy with my best interests at heart. I certainly won't be contributing a penny towards it.

Its sad that you're going to miss out over something like this. Not sure what else to tell you.

[thetack]

you missed my point X2 its not about elitism its about the game beign dumed down for the unthinking masses and a fear that a dam good game company with a great boss will get slated by those new players for whom a game is for hours not years and who buy this thinking its another shoot them up simulator. unless it is in which case i dont care anyway

[Asmodae]

Or, oh, sorry - should the game only be available to non-steam purists, because all steamusers will do is 'complain about it being too hard for them'?
Damn elitist.

WTF? Most people are arguing that there should be a non-steam version available along with the steam version. Not that there should ONLY be a non-steam version available. I think you're misplacing your anger. I recognize that some people think the steam trade off is worth while (typically people that license games at heavily discounted prices). I don't.

[Asmodae]

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

*dies a little inside*
I bet car manufacturers would love to kill the 2nd hand market as well. It'd be great for them, right? Except it would utterly destroy the economy. Buying and selling 2nd hand games does not hurt developers any more than any other industry. It cannot. 2nd hand sales of merchandise are essential to a functioning market economy. If a product is not profitable when 2nd hand sales are available it shouldn't exist. This is basic economics.

Frankly I think the X series is one of the few games whose long shelf life and sandbox nature makes it largely immune to 2nd hand sales. Ya know who is most impacted from 2nd hand sales? Studios that make crappy, forgettable, throw-away games, and they SHOULD be! Protectionism is not a valid answer. Any industry that needs it is destined to fail, and fail spectacularly which is my long term concern.

[chew-ie]

@Asmodae

Very good point IMO. Never thought about that topic that much as I buy & stick to software gems.

[Shimrod]

How big is the segment? No one here has been able to answer that question. The most we know is that there are a couple hundred people on the Egosoft forums who are very vocal about never using Steam. apart from that...no one has hard evidence to say how much of the Egosoft playerbase is represented by that opinion.

The German and English polls currently combine to 156(EN)+131(DE) definitely against. The poll is in its 8th day on both forums.

So there's 8k if we all paid £30 for the game. That's only from the 8th day of polling, and of course the vast majority of the public will not be reading this forum. Others, like myself as I peruse the media section of the supermarket in weekly shopping, will pick the game off the shelf, read as far as 'Steamworks' on the back and put it right back again. As it happens I did this very thing in ASDA yesterday with some game I didn't even bother reading the name of. No point getting hopes up.

Edit: Math correction!

Back when I used to play MMOs...

I agree that not all folk will stand by their original poll reponse. However the only thing it alters in this context is we must qualify our interpretation as: some proportion of those 287 voters will not buy the game.

As we agree nobody knows the actual number, talking about some proportion of that is an academic distinction.

What seems to be the case, IMO, is that more and more people are embracing this distribution model because of its convenience, easy of use and other benefits. I think that actually surprised the game industry. In much the same way that iTunes was a shock to the system of the recording industry who could never see past CD/Record sales.

That sounds reasonable, I should have attributed the squeezing out of traditional gamers as a side effect rather than the end goal, in terms of market conditions they're aiming for. Its probably too cynical to view this as the end goal.

However we can hopefully agree that the measures, whatever their intent, are certainly squeezing out the traditional buyer who will not migrate to Steam.

[chew-ie]

However we can hopefully agree that the measures, whatever their intent, are certainly squeezing out the traditional buyer who will not migrate to Steam.

Let me add about the migration: We should consider the possibility that a migration won´t happen - even not over time. Because as soon as other alternatives arise, those might be chosen by people who don´t wish to deal with Steam. A particular example would be letting PC gaming go and switch to consoles. Other new developments like gaming on mobile devices (smartphones, tablets and the like) might punch in, too.

[VincentTH]

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

Please don't put piracy and 2nd hand selling in the same sentence. The first one is illegal, and can be cause for thread-lock/ban etc... while the 2nd hand selling is perfectly legal in the USA where Valve Corp is [Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109, upheld by UMG v. Augusto) is the precedence in US law]

[the-danzorz]

If you want a fact about the real world, then here is another one for you, piracy and 2nd hand selling of games. Both which hurt the developers a lot!.

Making sure everyone who plays the game, buys there own new copy of the game is important to every developer. Steam is a good solution and helps both the developer and user manage their games in an effective way. There is options for low bandwidth and network users to not get updates (see above) and you can also buy a DVD copy of the steamworks copy to solve any download issues. (or get a friend to download and ship you a dvd copy).

A lot of developers including EA are making software like Steam, so sooner or later you will need to use these types of software or miss-out on gaming in general.

Please don't put piracy and 2nd hand selling in the same sentence. The first one is illegal, and can be cause for thread-lock/ban etc... while the 2nd hand selling is perfectly legal in the USA where Valve Corp is [Copyright Act of 1976, 17 U.S.C. § 109, upheld by UMG v. Augusto) is the precedence in US law]

Saying that Steam helps avoid these two issues doesn't get threads locked, its a valid point of view on benefits this has for any developer. The 2nd one is legal but some developers frown upon it (why wouldn't they, they lose profit from it.) if a game gets bought once, the developer only gets protfit for that 1 sale. Where as if that same copy of that game is sold 2-3 times again through second hand selling, the developers don't make a profit from those sales.

A lot of developers Add DLC to some games if it is pre-ordered or only usable on the one account it is registered on, this is to make buying a first hand copy more desirable. You see a lot more developers use these sort of market means to ensure first hand selling of their games. Because they want and some developers need those sales to continue. Thats all i am saying, steam has benefits for the developer and ones i support and don't have a problem with.

Steam also has benefits for the users, auto-updating so no more looking up game versions to then download the right patch (or disable it for low bandwidth users), Game becomes portable (no need to install it again as long as you backup the steam directory), can backup the game onto more then 1 DVD disc, to ensure if you lose a disc its not a problem. So and so forth. Steam has way more benefits for everyone then it does downsides.

[Slashman]

*dies a little inside*
I bet car manufacturers would love to kill the 2nd hand market as well. It'd be great for them, right? Except it would utterly destroy the economy. Buying and selling 2nd hand games does not hurt developers any more than any other industry. It cannot. 2nd hand sales of merchandise are essential to a functioning market economy. If a product is not profitable when 2nd hand sales are available it shouldn't exist. This is basic economics.

Frankly I think the X series is one of the few games whose long shelf life and sandbox nature makes it largely immune to 2nd hand sales. Ya know who is most impacted from 2nd hand sales? Studios that make crappy, forgettable, throw-away games, and they SHOULD be! Protectionism is not a valid answer. Any industry that needs it is destined to fail, and fail spectacularly which is my long term concern.

While I agree with most of this, I will point out that cars and games are very different commodities. We depend on vehicles to a much higher degree than we do games. Well...we only depend on games for entertainment after all(South Korea and their Starcraft fetish aside).

I don't believe that much of what is going on in the PC market in terms of digital distribution can be easily attributed to preventing second hand sales. Actually, Gabe Newell(of Valve) said in a recent interview that they are looking at ways for Steam users to be able to resell Steam games...but haven't come up with any concrete solutions. Steam also recently launched a service for users to sell/trade in-game items.

That sounds reasonable, I should have attributed the squeezing out of traditional gamers as a side effect rather than the end goal, in terms of market conditions they're aiming for. Its probably too cynical to view this as the end goal.

However we can hopefully agree that the measures, whatever their intent, are certainly squeezing out the traditional buyer who will not migrate to Steam.

It certainly does seem that way. Especially if you are one of the ones being 'squeezed'. But by the same token, if this is the way forward for PC gaming, allowing yourself to be squeezed out won't accomplish much of anything will it?

I don't think that digital distribution for PC games is anything more sinister or different from any other leap forward in any other industry.

When drive controllers and sound cards started to come integrated on motherboards, a lot of hardcore enthusiasts swore that it was a bad thing and it was just another point of failure for your system which would cause you to go through motherboards faster etc. Turns out that no one cares about that stuff any more and the more things we can integrate on motherboards(and in processors) these days, the better.

Let me add about the migration: We should consider the possibility that a migration won´t happen - even not over time. Because as soon as other alternatives arise, those might be chosen by people who don´t wish to deal with Steam. A particular example would be letting PC gaming go and switch to consoles. Other new developments like gaming on mobile devices (smartphones, tablets and the like) might punch in, too.

Well the reality of this is that in 2009, Steam was listed as having 25 million accounts with 10 million of those having active Steam Community profiles. Their peak usage at that time was 2.5 million concurrent users.

Today, the graph on their website shows peak usage close to 4 million. You do the math and let me know if it looks like digital distribution and Steam are going anywhere in the near future.

[David Howland]

The point is, no one who is anti steam is saying you steam lovers should not be able to play on steam, make love to steam or anything else with steam.
It is you steam lovers and ES who are dictating to us non steam users that to play XR we must ask steam permission first and allow it on our computers to #### it ##.
Well no thank you! If anything proves that XR is a second rate X game, it is that ES have brought in an aggressive bully-boy organisation like Steam to sell it. If ES come to their senses and allow an alternative to putting these destructive controlling programs on our PCs we will give XR a whirl!

[greypanther]

Shimrod, 156 + 131 x £20 = the salary of a devloper? Really?

My sympathy is extended to you CBJ, as well as my admiration for doing so much, for so little!