Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[apricotslice]

As if you need high speed internet for Steam. I got about 180kb/s download speeds and Steam is one of the best things to happen to my PC gaming experience.

My average is 20kb/s.

And hereabouts, the broadband I have is considered fast.

And it is indeed a lot faster than the wifi alternative I have on my mobile phone, which incidently is capped at 2gb a month after which it becomes very very expensive.

[heratik]

It seems Godwin's Law has finally paid this thread a visit.

It took a whole 48 pages though! I find that fairly impressive

[apricotslice]

It seems Godwin's Law has finally paid this thread a visit. Seriously though, everyone, please try and keep it friendly. The very worst thing for "freedom of expression" would be if the debate got too heated and we had to close the thread.

This is one time where I would seriously hope that you would split, move and lock anything that endangers this thread, and leave this one open.

[Texhnolyzed]

It seems Godwin's Law has finally paid this thread a visit. Seriously though, everyone, please try and keep it friendly. The very worst thing for "freedom of expression" would be if the debate got too heated and we had to close the thread.

Nothing of value would be lost if this thread was closed.

[chew-ie]

Nothing of value would be lost if this thread was closed.

Thanks for your opinion in this discussion =)

[David Howland]

Thats right!
Take this thread out and this forum can revert to a Rebirth Advertising Feature!
Ahhh Well, yawn, sleepy hollow here we come!

[vr01]

Lots of emotion here but as always it takes away from the facts as to why Bernd and co have gone down the Steam path.

Those facts are:

• Egosoft is a small developer

• Love it or hate it they need some sort of DRM to protect their investment

• Want easy to manage patches and want people to always play the latest version

• Encourage modding of their games with minimum hastle

• Maximum exposure for their product at minimum cost

• Allows DLC which potentially provides a further income stream

• Still harbour a goal to create a multiplayer / multi whatever game

• Egosoft is a small developer...

The reality is for a small developer like Egosoft (have I said that enough times?) Steam ticks those boxes.

• Yep we know we are going to need Steam to authenticate. Better than some other form of DRM that doesn't necessarily let us know it is being installed and occasionally causes other issues with our machines...

• It will patch the games for us - the challenge for Egosoft is to keep the patches to a reasonable size. The fact that they only have to manage one patching process will make things easier...

• Yes not implemented well for the previous X games because Steam was added later. Structure of previous X games mean that the false patch method is more popular than the mod method. FORGET ALL OF THAT because X:R is ALL NEW!!!

• Digital download is now and if you can get a boxed copy of the games you want then kudos to you. If it wasn't for Steam then I would never have been able to get this game series (started with X2). And for the record of have 3 copies of TC, Steam, box and Superbox direct from Egosoft

• Love it or hate it DLC is a great innovation in gaming. When done correctly...

• It has been a long term goal of Bernd's to do this... if Steam helps provide the tools to make it happen then so be it. Not too interested in the MP stuff myself but if it is an extra that doesn't impact single player then I don't particularly care...

Yes there are downsides the main one being control of patching and impact to internet bandwidth. Just looking through all of the patches for TC and all of the incremental patches are less than 100MB, it's only the version 1 to x patches that are larger than 100MB and in comes cases > 200MB. So maybe patching impact to download bandwidth won't be too bad... different game though so I guess we will see...

To those opposed to Steam, at least try it with one of the 'Free to Play' games. Even if you don't like any of them, pick one and play around with Steam. Try offline mode, etc. If you don't like it fine, you can always uninstall it and you haven't lost anything... Except time and some of your internet bandwidth

At least you will be more informed...


IN BERND WE TRUST!!!

[chew-ie]

To those opposed to Steam, at least try it with one of the 'Free to Play' games. Even if you don't like any of them, pick one and play around with Steam. Try offline mode, etc. If you don't like it fine, you can always uninstall it and you haven't lost anything... Except time and some of your internet bandwidth

Been there, done that, uninstalled it.

IN BERND WE TRUST!!!

We do... ehrr.. I do - in Egosoft, X and Bernd - since 1999.

But not in Steam

[vr01]

As if you need high speed internet for Steam. I got about 180kb/s download speeds and Steam is one of the best things to happen to my PC gaming experience.

My average is 20kb/s.

And hereabouts, the broadband I have is considered fast.

And it is indeed a lot faster than the wifi alternative I have on my mobile phone, which incidently is capped at 2gb a month after which it becomes very very expensive.

Where abouts in Aus are you and who is your internet provider? I am restricted to ADSL and I can get much faster than that...

I have 1GB for my phone and struggle to use it? Agree that it is expensive if I were to go over

[devilsad]

I don't think there needs to be a poll or even a heated discussion about this. Those that don't like Steam for whatever reason, rational or not, are perfectly free to not buy X: Rebirth. This is, in the end, the only way you can influence the decision of the publisher, and in fact the decisions of all publishers. I think you're in the vast minority and you'll simply deny yourselves a great (and hopefully successful) game if you do though.
This isn't Ubisoft and their 'Single player game that you can play only when you have permanent internet and our auth servers are working' nonsense. The only rational complaint that doesn't reduce down to "I don't like Steam" would be if you have metered internet and there is no disc version of the game - which unless I'm delerious, there will be.

[vr01]

This isn't Ubisoft and their 'Single player game that you can play only when you have permanent internet and our auth servers are working' nonsense. The only rational complaint that doesn't reduce down to "I don't like Steam" would be if you have metered internet and there is no disc version of the game - which unless I'm delerious, there will be.

+1

[chew-ie]

I don't think there needs to be a poll or even a heated discussion about this. Those that don't like Steam for whatever reason, rational or not, are perfectly free to not buy X: Rebirth. This is, in the end, the only way you can influence the decision of the publisher, and in fact the decisions of all publishers. I think you're in the vast minority and you'll simply deny yourselves a great (and hopefully successful) game if you do though.

I already said it three times or so - IMO these threads are important to show Egosoft that there is a negative reaction about the switch to Steam - no matter how small it might be in the view of others.

About the not buying & stuff: WIP, as in: that´s what I (and some others) will do.

This isn't Ubisoft and their 'Single player game that you can play only when you have permanent internet and our auth servers are working' nonsense.

The only rational complaint that doesn't reduce down to "I don't like Steam" would be if you have metered internet and there is no disc version of the game - which unless I'm delerious, there will be.

So - using that logic, the only rational complaint about not liking atomic bombs is that a single person can´t afford them? Strange times...

[ravisoul]

i like steam to be honest never had any issues with it. been using it for a year or 2 now so.. just activate and go offline mode, no bandwidth issues. and if you have bandwidth issues and need a update, if it’s from steam or from egosoft itself... you will still have bandwidth issues???!!! don’t get you guys, so much fuzz over activation a box or internet connections...

make love not war

[vr01]

This isn't Ubisoft and their 'Single player game that you can play only when you have permanent internet and our auth servers are working' nonsense.

The only rational complaint that doesn't reduce down to "I don't like Steam" would be if you have metered internet and there is no disc version of the game - which unless I'm delerious, there will be.

So - using that logic, the only rational complaint about not liking atomic bombs is that a single person can´t afford them? Strange times...

No the point is that Steam doesn't mean permanent Internet connection unlike Ubisoft or Blizzard for StarCraft 2, etc. Secondly that a disc version will be available so you won't have to download the entire game...

Atomic bombs is a strange comparison

[Shimrod]

THEY COULD DO BOTH? MORE PROFITSSS!!!

You forget that before the profits come the costs.

I am almost 100% sure that Deep Silver evaluated both plain physical distribution and Steam-based distribution, and found that the former would not yield (enough of) a profit.

I think it would be nice if there were Steam and non-Steam versions, and everyone could get what they want. But I guess the market speaks to the contrary.

I'm pretty sure they're planning on shipping boxed copies of a Steamworks integrated Rebirth. If that is the case the distribution costs would be the same regardless of whether the DVD version was Steamworks integrated.

Carbon footprint type arguments against a non Steam DVD version are questionable for the same reason.

It seems unlikely that the cost of putting a disk check on a non Steam DVD version or hosting patches on the website is going to outweigh the cost in lost sales.

[chew-ie]

Atomic bombs is a strange comparison

Indeed. Strange like e.g. separating arguments of customers who talk about how they [don´t] spent their money into rational / irrational.

[GCU Grey Area]

if you have bandwidth issues and need a update, if it’s from steam or from egosoft itself... you will still have bandwidth issues???!!!

The key difference is that updates from Egosoft can be downloaded on any computer, copied on to a portable medium (USB stick, CD, etc) then installed at home. Consequently this can be done over a much faster connection (e.g. work, university, etc). in contrast, Steam auto-updates directly to the machine with the game installed. For people with poor internet connections this can be an extremely lengthy process & can even be quite expensive, for those with very restricted download limits & ISPs which charge extra if those limits are exceeded.

[Slashman]

Digital download, like it or not, is still a before its time pipe dream in most parts of the world.

This may be the case. But the only thing that truly matters is if digital download is available in the areas where the majority of gamers live. The rest of the world needs to catch up, it's true...but that doesn't mean that tying a game to a service like Steam means an automatic bad business decision. It simply means its a decision you don't like.

Steam usage statistics show peak user numbers approaching 4 million. I'd say that's a substantial potential audience. Their userbase grows daily.

ONLY where there is high speed, reliable broadband, is it possible.

I live in a 'third world' country in the Caribbean. The average broadband speed here is less than 1 Meg. I still have several friends who get their games on Steam. Downloads may take a while...but they resume.

For a lot of places. Getting physical copies of games is difficult and costly. There are no brick and mortar game stores here. And ordering a boxed game from amazon or a similar store equates to a hefty shipping cost plus taxes/duties. It's simply not worth it. I've bought more games since starting my Steam use than at any other time in my life.

I don't have it here. Plenty of people have said the same thing.

Well that's exactly how I feel, when my only option to buy a game is a physical copy.

Steam and Deepsilver may think its a practical reality, but they live in digital wonderland, not in the real world.

Are you truly serious? Do you know how many games have seen the light of day only because of services like Steam and Impulse?

Do you know how many small independent dev studios there are who would not have been able to afford a publishing deal or market their games if not for using a service like Steam?

Off the top of my head here are some games I'd have never bought if not for Steam: Audio Surf, Bastion, Sanctum, Defense Grid, Shadowgrounds, World of Goo, Braid, Chime, Beat Hazard, Steel Storm, Orcs Must Die!, Guns of Icarus and I'm missing a few others because I don't have my Steam list open in front of me.

All of those from indy devs who were able to make some profit and get their work out thanks to help from Steam. The majority of those titles don't have boxed versions available because the devs can't afford a publishing deal.

The whole concept of Steam is my worst digital nightmare.

Game Over.

Putting your dramatic declaration aside, its regrettable that you're going to miss out on the next game in a series that you really like because it requires Steam for activation.

[BDK]

Putting your dramatic declaration aside, its regrettable that you're going to miss out on the next game in a series that you really like because it requires Steam for activation.

Hmm good luck uinstalling steam and keep playing XR. Only for activation yeah right..

[fairywhipper]

its all comes down to whether you like steam or not or is it?
steam is good as it reaches beyond the shop and so people whom cant/wont buycan still get the game.
however what happens if you dont have/limited internet but want to play game , if it is only avaliable through steam how do we get it. unless steam itself goes and produces a physhical medium which it can send out by post(snail mail).

so that leaves the developer and publishers a choice, do we produce a physical medium to cater for this 'niche market'/majority market depends on how you view it.