Old Steam Poll posts split and 'archived'

[SIMON POPPLEWELL]

Because Egosoft are probably legally bound to use Steam. They would only use a patch if Steam for some reason when down, which is unlikely.

No, they're not legally bound to use Steam at all. HERE is proof

So I ask again WHY CAN'T WE HAVE A NON-STEAM DOWNLOAD?

Well they must be or they would be available for download on non-steam sites.

[VincentTH]

A quick list list of bugs i can think atm:
when offline it will randomly switch to offline
it will stuck in update mode and be the last version at the same time
those 2 can get close to daily chores at times just search for registry.blob for info
it will fail to authenticate your game when serverload is high from random patch or hello kitty sale
it will fail to go online when in online mode in an online pc
random game redownloads
random dl manager actions
broken patching preferences
if you don't let it restart to apply the last patch, it will do nothing till it applies that patch, you must be online during the patching
the same with a game, after patching the game u must be online the next time u play that game

Not a bug:
You can play one game at a time in a pc
You can play one instance of a game in a pc
You can have a single install of a game in a pc
You can't choose which patch to apply in a game
All game games install within the steam dir
You can't resale or trade a game
No refunds

So to sum up when u can't play x4:
no net acces
the 100mb steam needs (in offline mode) can turn x4 from playable to unplayable
steam hate
u want to sell x4

(Nice name BTW )
You forgot one thing:

People like me who are behind a firewall 1/2 of the time, or have Steam Ports blocked for one reason or another (university students and me stranded at the in-laws while the ladies chat for hours after hours ).
I don't understand why Steam does not allow HTTP/HTTPS traffic for authentication and game download, or proxy server for that matter. I am playing a single player game, and don't need game port for MP game play. Just allow me to authenticate to Steam via HTTPS and download via HTTP and I will be a fan of X:R and Steam. The bank industry use HTTPS, why can't Steam?
Actually come to think of it, using HTTPS to authenticate is more secure from hackers and internet snoopers than using Steam ports.

[Slashman]

For the most part, the Steam hate is irrational.

That some people have had issues with the service is almost unavoidable(it services millions and millions of people). But that doesn't mean it's a bad service. Steam actually offers a lot of incentives to use it and its a lot more flexible than some people want to make out.

As someone who has been around for a lot of anti-Steam discussions, I've seen a lot of people post either false or incomplete info with regards to problems they have had.

Someone did a rant on Bluesnews a good while ago about how horribly they were treated by Steam and at the end of it...managed to let slip that he was account sharing with his brother and logging on simultaneously to play games together. But before that...he dumped a lot of incorrect and unsubstantiated info.

If you are an anti-DRM activist, more power to you. By all means vote with your wallet and don't get the game. If you personally have had a horrible experience with Steam...then don't get the game.

But if your only beef with Steam is based on he said/she said or 'I know a guy who knows a guy', or if you're worried that 20 years from now you won't be able to play your copy of (insert game here), then I can't really sympathize with you and think you're missing out for nothing.

[EmperorJon]

They may say that they'll be charging for DLC that otherwise they wouldn't have been able to release, and it's a case about it wouldn't exist if we couldn't make some money because we can't afford it...
But. I can't help but think... if I've got my maths right, TC came with 4 'plots', and we got an additional 5 free over time. I can't help but think that, if this was Rebirth, we would have had to pay to download all 5 as DLC, which is my opinion is disappointing.

[VincentTH]

They may say that they'll be charging for DLC that otherwise they wouldn't have been able to release, and it's a case about it wouldn't exist if we couldn't make some money because we can't afford it...
But. I can't help but think... if I've got my maths right, TC came with 4 'plots', and we got an additional 5 free over time. I can't help but think that, if this was Rebirth, we would have had to pay to download all 5 as DLC, which is my opinion is disappointing.

To be fair to Ego, of the 5 that comes after the original release, only the Aldrin2, HQ and BoP plots are done by Egosoft. The others are made by contributors like you and me (ANH, Treasure Hunt), so Ego cannot charge the players for those.

[exogenesis]

Beyond a couple of extrapolated posts by Bernd, do we actually know
that Rebirth will be exclusively Steam activated/updated/controlled ?

Or are all the other options still open.

[TTD]

Beyond a couple of extrapolated posts by Bernd, do we actually know
that Rebirth will be exclusively Steam activated/updated/controlled ?

Or are all the other options still open.

atm it seems "activated/updated".
The jury is still out on "controlled",but seems likely if the pro Steamers are correct,although not confirmed by Egosoft.

[VincentTH]

Beyond a couple of extrapolated posts by Bernd, do we actually know
that Rebirth will be exclusively Steam activated/updated/controlled ?

Or are all the other options still open.

atm it seems "activated/updated".
The jury is still out on "controlled",but seems likely if the pro Steamers are correct,although not confirmed by Egosoft.

It appears to be so - at least that is how it appears to work currently - because Steam would then act as a replacement for DRM, i.e. you have to logged into Steam in order to run the game in online mode. Subsequently, if you then switch to offline mode, you can run the game without being authenticated - until the next update/patch that is.

[VincentTH]

So, let's give Bernd the benefit of the doubt, and we will take X:R with Steam. What do I want?

I will update this first post as people post what they want in addition to the above.
Please no posts with "I do not want Steam regardless". Even though you have my sympathy, this kind of discussion belongs to the Poll thread.


(1) Activation only. I do not need to authenticate with Steam to play it afterwards. This does not mean that I can remove Steam. It just mean I don't have Steam to run in order to play the game after the first activation.

(2) If (1) is not possible, can an offline mode be permanent, i.e. if I don't want to update to the latest patch, I am allowed to run the game without Steam forcing the upgrade down my throat? Of course, if I want achievements etc... I will need to update to the latest patch.

(3) Me essentially: I want Steam to work with HTTP/HTTPS ports in addition to Steam game ports. This means there is a Config/Settings option where I can authenticate to Steam with HTTPS, and download upgrade with HTTP.

[EDIT]
(4) Ability to disable a DLC (in the case the DLC conflicts with a mod I installed).

(5) no need for DRM on steam version. From Incubi

[Chris0132]

I don't get why people think charging for DLC is an abhorrent practice.

You pay like $50 for an X game, and then go on to play it for a hundred hours or so. That's pretty damn good value for money. Certainly better than most other forms of entertainment, probably better than books, definitely better than movies, infinitely better than food.

So with that in mind, ego should really charge more for X, but of course then nobody would buy it, because gamers are the whinyest bunch of cheapskates on the face of the earth.

If the DLC they release averages at a dollar an hour in terms of entertainment value, it's a good deal, and you can't complain about paying for it.

[Chris0132]

You can disable auto updates for any game on steam.

And steam has an offline mode, it doesn't really work for me but then I've never actually tried to get it working, I'm sure you can if you google it.

Generally however steam games do require you to run steam to launch them. It doesn't have to be connected to the internet if it's offline, but steam is usually somewhat integrated into games that use it, such as steamcloud which backs up your saves for you and things, and their data is stored in a steam format.

[imperium3]

1) is not possble, certainly. Steam does not work that way.

2) is kind of possible, but as far as I know it would entail keeping the whole Steam platform offline, meaning you can't download any other games either.

3) I just don't understand what you mean. It sounds like you're asking for something that would involve a change to the Steam client itself, which is kiiiiiinda beyond Ego's capacity.

Also I'd like to say (and you're not the first to say it, so it's not a dig) that it's not Bernd's decision at all whether the game is on Steam, it's the publisher's decision - ie Deep Silver's. For all we know Bernd could be screaming blue murder behind the scenes to stop them from doing this, but can't say that publicly because upsetting one's publisher is a bad idea (Though I don't think Ego mind Steam very much themselves, as it is quite a distribution advantage for a small dev).

My personal view is that having a Steamworks game on a disc is a bit pointless. If I want the game on Steam, then I can buy it on Steam and I have just as much flexibility wrt where I download and play it etc (note to all the Steam-haters you do NOT need an internet connection to play Steam games). If I buy a disc it's so that I can play it, but also stick it away in a box and dig it out ten years later, and still know that given the appropriate computer I can run it. With a Steamworks game I don't have that security, because if for whatever reason in ten years' time the game is taken off Steam's servers, I most likely can't download from disc either.

[Chris0132]

2) is kind of possible, but as far as I know it would entail keeping the whole Steam platform offline, meaning you can't download any other games either

No actually it's perfectly possible. Right click the game, select properties, click the updates tab, and select 'do not automatically update this game'.

Simple as that. Not a commonly known feature because there's no real point in it, but you can do it if you want to.

[A5PECT]

Simple as that. Not a commonly known feature because there's no real point in it, but you can do it if you want to.

It's more known than you think.

Anyone that's ever modded a Steam game will know about that option.

[Slashman]

I don't get why people think charging for DLC is an abhorrent practice.

You pay like $50 for an X game, and then go on to play it for a hundred hours or so. That's pretty damn good value for money. Certainly better than most other forms of entertainment, probably better than books, definitely better than movies, infinitely better than food.

So with that in mind, ego should really charge more for X, but of course then nobody would buy it, because gamers are the whinyest bunch of cheapskates on the face of the earth.

If the DLC they release averages at a dollar an hour in terms of entertainment value, it's a good deal, and you can't complain about paying for it.

Some companies have 'poisoned' players minds against DLC by offering bad value for money on it. EA/Bioware have done some bad DLC deals in Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age.

The entire concept of DLC offends some people who would prefer a decent expansion to a game rather than bits and pieces doled out over many months.

Of course, some companies do offer good DLC deals. A lot of the ones which stick in my mind are small and Indy dev studios who really want to offer something back as thanks to their supporters, but still need to charge for it.

Then there are some companies who truly shine in this area like CD Projekt. They never charge for DLC and have released enhanced editions of both Witcher and Witcher 2 with enough DLC to be counted as small expansions. All at no cost to the customer. Kind of makes other larger studios look like tools in comparison.

[Chris0132]

Simple as that. Not a commonly known feature because there's no real point in it, but you can do it if you want to.

It's more known than you think.

Anyone that's ever modded a Steam game will know about that option.

Ehhh maybe. I mod my games but I don't bother with the feature, as most of them aren't that frequently updated, have good mod support like fallout 3 which means it doesn't break as much with each patch, and also I don't really care if they do, I'll just start again, no biggie.

But yeah I guess if you do have reason to use it then you might, but steam has quite a few odd features that probably don't show up on most people's radar.

[Chris0132]

Ehhh I was never dissatisfied with the dragon age/mass effect DLCs, I didn't have much interest in them as I wasn't overly fussed on the games, but they added a few hours of cool stuff for a few quid in payment, so they average as much as most games do in terms of cost-value ratio.

I also don't really get the 'would prefer an expansion' idea either. I mean take fallout new vegas, there's probably more content in DLC than there is in the main game, if you want an expansion, buy a couple of DLCs, that costs about as much and gives you about as much.

Most games don't get expansions, so DLC generally means that games which would normally get nothing, get at least some expansion if you want it. It's generally a good thing I think.

[VincentTH]

2) is kind of possible, but as far as I know it would entail keeping the whole Steam platform offline, meaning you can't download any other games either

No actually it's perfectly possible. Right click the game, select properties, click the updates tab, and select 'do not automatically update this game'.

Simple as that. Not a commonly known feature because there's no real point in it, but you can do it if you want to.

I know that, but as soon as there is an update, it will do the update anyway before you can play the game.

[Chris0132]

2) is kind of possible, but as far as I know it would entail keeping the whole Steam platform offline, meaning you can't download any other games either

No actually it's perfectly possible. Right click the game, select properties, click the updates tab, and select 'do not automatically update this game'.

Simple as that. Not a commonly known feature because there's no real point in it, but you can do it if you want to.

I know that, but as soon as there is an update, it will do the update anyway before you can play the game.

Er. Why would it do that? You told it explicitly not to do that. Steam auto updates by default, that option disables it for whichever games you tell it to.

[VincentTH]

3) I just don't understand what you mean. It sounds like you're asking for something that would involve a change to the Steam client itself, which is kiiiiiinda beyond Ego's capacity.

If you bother to read the recent Steam Client Update CHange log, Steam has started to provide a HTTP mode. If you don't understand what was being asked, please refrain from commenting on it.

to wit (Steam Change log Jul 12, 2011):

Steam client update released
Client Update - Valve
A Steam client update is now available. To apply the update, click the File menu inside of Steam and then select "Check for Steam Client Updates...". The specific changes include:

Features
Initial client side support for upcoming improved content delivery system (groundwork for future performance/reliability improvements to downloads)
Added find text in HTML pages ( CTRL+F )
Added “copy link” option to web browser right click menu
Added suggested friends from Facebook display in client, if you’ve linked with Facebook
Added the ability to push screenshots to Facebook after upload
Additional HTTP API support for Steamworks partners
Added check so screenshots for unreleased games can only be uploaded as private in the client.
Added Facebook info when receiving a friend invite.