Public Beta 1.5 YAY

[Socratatus]

It seems like the beta is more 2 gb video card friendly. I think it's a bit more demanding at times on the cpu ?

It's actually busted. Ai pathing is broken (even more than before) and it looks like it causes some kind of infinite loop that kills your cpu to the point it doesn't feed your gpu anymore. Result: heavy fps losses and even freezes for many people (usually around stations, heavy traffic areas in general and after staying IS for a while). And when it still kind of works... well, it doesn't, because npcs can't dock or undock anymore.

Well good thing it`s a beta then. I advise getting on to Egosoft Devs and reporting issues like this asap- that`s why they release betas.

[Kadatherion]

Well good thing it`s a beta then. I advise getting on to Egosoft Devs and reporting issues like this asap- that`s why they release betas.

Of course, the beta forums are already filled with reports. The issue is pretty bad (I guess it could even endanger your hardware), won't come out of beta in this state for sure. Worst case scenario they'll have to rollback whatever causes it and keep for the main patch release only the other fixes. Anyway, the biggest issue that we hoped to see solved by 1.5 (shipyards without building resources like engine parts because... whatever, probably trade logic) is still there, so, heh.

[burger1]

It seems like the beta is more 2 gb video card friendly. I think it's a bit more demanding at times on the cpu ?

It's actually busted. Ai pathing is broken (even more than before) and it looks like it causes some kind of infinite loop that kills your cpu to the point it doesn't feed your gpu anymore. Result: heavy fps losses and even freezes for many people (usually around stations, heavy traffic areas in general and after staying IS for a while). And when it still kind of works... well, it doesn't, because npcs can't dock or undock anymore.

Maybe it's not still not 2gb ready. Still get artifacts after a while but some stuff fixes itself where it didn't before. After 27 min my game and save in trinity sanctum III became a lag fest.

[dionnsai]

I'll have you know, I'm playing the beta without backing up my saves. I like to live dangerously....

[ApoxNM]

The beta is kind of unplayable for me. I can play it. But the freezes are very annyoing. Howver I noticed much more xenon activity.

[shinzah]

I haven't noticed any freezing on my game, but the engine parts stocking issue is super annoying and still hasn't been squashed (I sat for three hours waiting for NPC's to stock a wharf and they just didn't do it.)

[ApoxNM]

I haven't noticed any freezing on my game, but the engine parts stocking issue is super annoying and still hasn't been squashed (I sat for three hours waiting for NPC's to stock a wharf and they just didn't do it.)

What's your set up?

[shinzah]

I haven't noticed any freezing on my game, but the engine parts stocking issue is super annoying and still hasn't been squashed (I sat for three hours waiting for NPC's to stock a wharf and they just didn't do it.)

What's your set up?

7700HQ i7
6GB 1060 GTX
8GB DDR4L
1TB 7200RPM HDD

[ApoxNM]

I haven't noticed any freezing on my game, but the engine parts stocking issue is super annoying and still hasn't been squashed (I sat for three hours waiting for NPC's to stock a wharf and they just didn't do it.)

What's your set up?

7700HQ i7
6GB 1060 GTX
8GB DDR4L
1TB 7200RPM HDD

So gtx 1060 doesnt have the issue everyone with a gtx 1070 has....

[Kadatherion]

So gtx 1060 doesnt have the issue everyone with a gtx 1070 has....

It does, I'm on a 1060. GPU really isn't and can't be related to this.

[malkuth1974]

I can report this so far that I let the game run for 8 hours in BETA 1.5 while I went to work. This was before I knew about the FPS issue with ships getting stuck.

I wanted to see if it really fixed the Warf supply issue.

It was hard to move around at 4 FPS. But managed to check out a HOP warf that was pretty empty in 1.32.

And it was still pretty empty. It’s hard to tell because I don’t know how much time actually worked in the game. But keep in mind that HOP warf was OOS the whole time.

So who knows, can’t really test this BETA with this FPS issue.

[Kadatherion]

I can report this so far that I let the game run for 8 hours in BETA 1.5 while I went to work. This was before I knew about the FPS issue with ships getting stuck.

I wanted to see if it really fixed the Warf supply issue.

It was hard to move around at 4 FPS. But managed to check out a HOP warf that was pretty empty in 1.32.

And it was still pretty empty. It’s hard to tell because I don’t know how much time actually worked in the game. But keep in mind that HOP warf was OOS the whole time.

So who knows, can’t really test this BETA with this FPS issue.

I was able to manage to let it go a while before giving up, and yes, the engine parts issue wasn't solved in any way. They didn't get a single delivery, and even though I kept having several traders do that and only that job, it kept not being enough. I honestly didn't see any sign of that issue at least getting better. But, again, I couldn't test it for many hours myself, as the freezing bug tried to fry my system and I went NOPE on the beta since then

[ApoxNM]

Guess this beta is rather completely unsuccessfull, not only did it not fix the issue. It made performance and a bunch of other issues worse.

[leecarter]

Guess this beta is rather completely unsuccessfull, not only did it not fix the issue. It made performance and a bunch of other issues worse.

Pretty much. And I haven't even seen the changes made to auto traders mentioned in this thread yet. Maybe there's some new way to set them up, but all I can see is going to the behaviors tab and adding each ware one by one - every time you want to set up a galaxy trader. Right click set galaxy trader is gone.

[malkuth1974]

Guess this beta is rather completely unsuccessfull, not only did it not fix the issue. It made performance and a bunch of other issues worse.

Pretty much. And I haven't even seen the changes made to auto traders mentioned in this thread yet. Maybe there's some new way to set them up, but all I can see is going to the behaviors tab and adding each ware one by one - every time you want to set up a galaxy trader. Right click set galaxy trader is gone.

Well you found the issue than.. The galaxy trader option was the cheat option. You could assign any captain to the Autotrade Command.
The correct way to setup autotrade is through the Behavior Menu of the ship info tab like you mentioned.

Ya and it does suck that you have to add all wares again.

[SparvieroGed]

I think XL shouldn't toast S.
And S shouldn't be a treat to XL.


This is how I think should be the balance in the game.


S turrets
+ Very good accuracy and good damage versus sub systems
+ Very good accuracy and good damage versus S ships
- Very good accuracy and not bad damage versus M ships
- Very good accuracy and bad damage against L ships
- Very good accuracy and bad damage against XL ships ( more or less 0 damage )

M turrets
+ Good accuracy and good damage versus sub systems
+ Good accuracy and very good damage versus S ships
+ Very good accuracy and good damage versus M ships
- Very good accuracy and not bad damage versus L ships
- Very good accuracy and bad damage versus XL ships

L turrets
- Low accuracy and good damage versus sub systems
- Low accuracy and very good damage versus S ships
- Medium accuracy and very good damage versus M ships
+ Good accuracy and good damage versus L ships
+ Very good accuracy and not bad damage versus XL ships

XL turrets
- Very low accuracy and very good damage versus sub systems ( accuracy almost 0 )
- Very low accuracy and very good damage versus S ships ( accuracy almost 0 )
- Low accuracy and very good damage versus M ships
+ Good accuracy and very good damage versus L ships
+ Good accuracy and good damage versus XL ships

To archive what I said, we can't have just a general accuracy and damage stats. We need Class Ship specific accuracy and damage stats.


This was the easy and boring part. On these rules, the real balance is choose how many turrets and what types of turrets a ship can have.

So you can have XL ships good versus S ships: must be a XL ships with a lot of S/M turrets.

NO!


Get that Rock-paper-scissors garbage out of here.
No special stats/rules that make no sense.
IF you get hit by a an anti-capital turret in an S class, you should get vaporized, not get reduced damage because of a r******* system.

Do you know how you achieve the desired effect? Just by playing with normal values.

Huge anti-capital turrets would have slow tracking, but deal huge damage. An S fighter should be able to dodge. Keep moving, no sitting still.

Light turrets would have better tracking and fast turning, making it hard for S fighter to dodge. But the also do less damage.

Ans S class weapons shouldn't be able to do much damage to L/XL ships. Basically the only scenario were a special rule is OK, to simulate capital armor. Best way to do it would not be to nerf S weapon damage to captials, but rather have a damage ceeling - you can damage a capital hull down to 75% with S weapons, but no more. What this means htat while your weapons CAN do some damage to more exposed parts and systems, they cannot punch trough thick armor plating.

Mmmmmmh....maybe you got me wrong.
For example we are saying the same thing in the blue quotes.

Purple quote is the short version of what I posted about XL. Just I spoke about accuracy that can be the final result in an expression with parametrs like tracking, target speed and fire speed.

Here we are again saying the same thing.

And here again we are saying the same thing


The only big difference between our posts are that I wrote the results while you wrote some parametrs behind my results.


EDIT:

Probably you and others got wrong my post. Becouse isn't about rock-paper and scissors.

And I remember to all that my post is Turrets versus Ships.

[SparvieroGed]

If I swarm a capital with a hundred bees, I want it to sink. It's fun, it's realistic and it's cinematic. Other than that I agree with everything you replied, let's keep the rock-paper-scissors mechanics out of our space sims, please. And guys, it really isn't THAT hard to balance ship combat without using dirty tricks: just go play X3AP with Litcube's Universe (well, X3AP vanilla already made some pretty good steps in the right direction), and you'll see. The compromises we have are for the arcade oriented players, that Egosoft is trying to cater to more and more these last few years (imo overestimating a bit how many there are or, at least, how long they're gonna stay interested in a game that still isn't for them).

A BIG swarm of fighters should be able to sink a cap ship, but the cap ship flaks would tear them apart and cause humongous losses. Yes, in such case the player will have a though time getting close to an enemy destroyer while flying his crappy starter fighter: guess what? That's exactly how it should be. Wanna fight with the big guys? You gotta earn it. Otherwise, it's an even bigger gameplay issue: there's no progression and no need for it.

Guys!

You can't speak just about ships size.
You also have to speak about turrets size.
And we have to remember that turrets aren't the only weapons.

I said that S turrets should not be able to inflict damage to XL ships. And you cannot make change my mind about this. You can have 100 S ships firing with 400 S turrets against a XL ships...still make no sense they can inflict damage. Small bullets should not be able to penetrate big ships.

Do you know how you get S ships take out XL ships ? Using different weapons on the S ships like missiles/bombs. Dawn side to use this kind of S ships? They can't have other weapons...not enought space. So S ships with anti-XL/L weapons have no possibility against S ships with S turrets.


Examples


1) A lot of S ships with anti-XL/L weapons versus a Capital Ships with only big guns.
S ships win easy.

2) A lot of S ships with anti-XL/L weapons versus a Capital Ships with a mix of big turrets and small turrets.
S ships win and some get destroyed.

3)A lot of S ships with anti-XL/L weapons versus a Capital Ships with only S turrets.
Capital Ships win.

4) An incredible number of S ships with anti-XL/L weapons versus a Capital Ships with only S turrets.
S ships win...and get a lot of casualities.

5) 30 S ships with anti-XL/L weapons versus a Capital Ships with only big guns AND 30 S ships with s turrets guarding the Capital Ships.
The 30 S ships with anti-Xl/L weapons lose very bad before inflict big damage to the capital or the escort of the capital.




I hope this is clear. Becouse is the only way to have some real strategy. By the way.... I'm not intelligent. All this stuff I copy from one of the best RTS sci-fi game of all time.

[Kadatherion]

Do you know how you get S ships take out XL ships ? Using different weapons on the S ships like missiles/bombs. Dawn side to use this kind of S ships? They can't have other weapons...not enought space. So S ships with anti-XL/L weapons have no possibility against S ships with S turrets.

No, do you know what's the downside of this? That X never had - and most likely never will - any AI logic to make ships prioritize targets in any sensible way. Of course the dicotomy fighters/bombers is one way to get at that, but don't expect much from X games here. So you have to live with that: either you have fighters that, in LARGE numbers and incurring in HEAVY losses MIGHT be able to sink a capital ship (and you use your imagination to accept some of their weapons can penetrate heavy armor), or your bombers armed with torpedoes only that dumbly try to dogfight with yet another Xenon N instead of staying the f*** away of them and unload their missiles. Closest thing we had were the actual bombers from X3 - which, however, weren't fighters in any way as they were LONG range missile snipers - and that to an extent at least it seems are planned to be back here (for now they aren't, they are called bombers but really have no logic or dedicated balance behind them).

And, btw, it's not so hard to achieve and be believable: just, you know, let cap ships *regenerate shields* as it always happened? Cap ship shields are so massive only a really big swarm of fighters can beat the regen rate (which simulates your "can't penetrate a cap ship 'armor' with weak weapons). And if there's so many that in the end manage to do that, honestly, do you have any idea how in "reality" would a spaceship be fragile? The tiniest of holes in the structure could destroy its integrity. If you have enough firepower to bring down the shields, then it's perfectly believable it can damage the hull enough to compromise the ship integrity.

Finally, there's also the matter of money balance: if I throw enough money at the enemy, within limits I should have enough of a return. Even with this kind of setup, using fighters has always been cost ineffective in X, because an M2 worth 80 millions against another cap ship, if it wins, means you lose nothing. If you attack an M2 with 50 fighters (worth 80 millions in total) and even if they win only 25 at best come home safe, you'll still have lost 40 millions (not to mention the incredible pain in the ass of having to rebuy/build 25 fighters and equip them all over again). If you even make it so fighters can't, in any way, win that battle, then there's no reason whatsoever to have them. You just cut out and rendered useless half of the game's ship roster. "But they are supposed to be used against other fighters", you'd reply? Why, didn't we say cap ships should have antifighter weapons? Why use fighters when my cap ship is in god mode against fighters, and can kill them? Don't give them flaks? And just look at fighter swarms endlessly firing - for no reason at all - against a defenseless but immortal M2? Not so fun nor immersive. X isn't a RTS game where you can manually keep control of everything with just a drag and select and right click: battles are left to the AI for the 99%, so you have to work with it.

[SparvieroGed]

Do you know how you get S ships take out XL ships ? Using different weapons on the S ships like missiles/bombs. Dawn side to use this kind of S ships? They can't have other weapons...not enought space. So S ships with anti-XL/L weapons have no possibility against S ships with S turrets.

And, btw, it's not so hard to achieve and be believable: just, you know, let cap ships *regenerate shields* as it always happened? Cap ship shields are so massive only a really big swarm of fighters can beat the regen rate (which simulates your "can't penetrate a cap ship 'armor' with weak weapons). And if there's so many that in the end manage to do that, honestly, do you have any idea how in "reality" would a spaceship be fragile? The tiniest of holes in the structure could destroy its integrity. If you have enough firepower to bring down the shields, then it's perfectly believable it can damage the hull enough to compromise the ship integrity.

Probably this is the best solution.

[leecarter]

Well you found the issue than.. The galaxy trader option was the cheat option. You could assign any captain to the Autotrade Command.
The correct way to setup autotrade is through the Behavior Menu of the ship info tab like you mentioned.

Ya and it does suck that you have to add all wares again.

Oh okay. If they don't have something in the works to "add all wares" and instead are seriously going to replace single-click functionality with 20 clicks I'll make sure I stock up on popcorn for viewing the forums once it goes live. Gonna get spicy!