Is this game worth getting?

[Nikola515]

So question, I have all the X games and want to try some space sims after giving up on XRebirth soon after release. So what would one advise?

X3:TC/X3:AP There are still some plot lines I have not played though so thinking of starting with X3TC and replaying my way though. Really enjoyed the whole XN series and feel so sad that its over.

XR Worth another go? Just did not feel right when it first came out, maybe its improved. Like almost everyone else I just wanted X4 not XR, but if I just put enough time in maybe I will grow to love it, and realise XR better than everything else? (Oh and I hate Ren's voice)

Elite Dangerous: Have not got it. Looks like it has less depth than the X series, but maybe its the best choice?

Something else?

That depends what you like and want(role ) to play in X games.... XR got much better but if you like empire building i wouldn't recommend it Lack of control of you assets and r******* managers who keep doing stupid stuff are huge turn off for me. Another problem is limited sinks for economy. You can build so many stations becuse if you bild more they will get stuck and full of products.I started to have huge performances issues with v3.60 so i uninstalled it..... Im playing X3 ap with XRM mod and im having a blast

[Ketraar]

Lack of control of you assets and r******* managers who keep doing stupid stuff are huge turn off for me.

You keep bringing this up repeatedly and it was wrong the first time. In regards to building and maintaining stations you have at least the same amount of control, in fact you can even block wares individually from being traded to others in contrast to the all-or-nothing option in previous games.

I wont defend the managers much, mostly due to the fact that I only give them miners to work with and manage everything else myself. But from what I gather their skill will make a difference, but that is no real change from older X games given ships would fly about buying 10 E-cells, and let the cahoona stock go to 0 bringing the station to a halt. That is standard behaviour for non CAG/CLS (read modded) gameplay.

I reckon some people rather have everything automated, but that is a gamestyle preference and not really a gameplay issue, given everyone and their dog will have a different opinion about how much automation a game can handle before its pointless to actually PLAY the game.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

@Ketaar

Problem with a manager and in general is that they are not effects in sustaining stations. Every 5 minutes there is message that something needs my attention. Manager AI dont have any priorities (or it dont know how to use them). Yes we can control some options but not all and most important ones. Like telling ship to keep selling something because there is too much of it and damand is high for those things( like ion or plasma cells in my case). For some reason manager AI wont tuch them and it keeps buying samll amount of E cells wasting all of my money on f cells..... So i need to trade everything manually. This is control that i want and im talking about. Runing one or two stations is not problem but when you have more it just becomes pain in the....

[Ketraar]

Indeed it has much room for improvement, my point was that you dont have that control in previous games either, which was what you were inferring. Only with the use of CAG/CLS (or other 3rd party scripts/mods) you get CLOSE to that type of control.

Sustainable stations are a bad game design imo, I hated self-sustained complexes so much I tried hard to push against them whenever possible, in fact possibly in any mod I had 0.02€ worth to say it was on the top of things to remove, as they represent a loss in gameplay. But that is a whole other story...

MFG

Ketraar

[Graaf]

Indeed it has much room for improvement, my point was that you dont have that control in previous games either, which was what you were inferring. Only with the use of CAG/CLS (or other 3rd party scripts/mods) you get CLOSE to that type of control.

And yet, even when playing X3 without the BonusPack, you can have a fully functional station or even complex with only using the basic Mk1 & Mk2 Trade Command Software and one or several transporters with the "Buy/Sell ware for best price"-order.

To be honest the use of CAG/CLS is highly overrated and absolutely unnecessary.

[yoyolll]

Indeed it has much room for improvement, my point was that you dont have that control in previous games either, which was what you were inferring. Only with the use of CAG/CLS (or other 3rd party scripts/mods) you get CLOSE to that type of control.

And yet, even when playing X3 without the BonusPack, you can have a fully functional station or even complex with only using the basic Mk1 & Mk2 Trade Command Software and one or several transporters with the "Buy/Sell ware for best price"-order.

To be honest the use of CAG/CLS is highly overrated and absolutely unnecessary.

Agreed, this is how I ran my empire in AP. It worked fine. Especially in a safe area like the Argon core sectors, it never needed my attention. Just a steady inflow of cash after setting them up. The station managers in XR are worthless, all they do is take away control from the player and run your stations less effectively.

[Ketraar]

And yet, even when playing X3 without the BonusPack, you can have a fully functional station or even complex with only using the basic Mk1 & Mk2 Trade Command Software and one or several transporters with the "Buy/Sell ware for best price"-order.

Well not sure what you mean by "functional" it sure "functions" up to a point when it stops to function properly, until you intervene.

To be honest the use of CAG/CLS is highly overrated and absolutely unnecessary.

Sorry but you just lost any credibility by saying this in a argument about station management.
You either have no clue or are just trying hard to be against something.

MFG

Ketraar

[Nikola515]

Actually trade Mk2 was already in game when i got X3R and X3TC..... With Mk2 on your ship get option buy/sell item for best price when ship assigned to station... So if want ship to buy/sell e cells or ore that was it's job. Thats what im talking about. Tade Mk 2 was in vanila game and i don't know if it was mod before or not. I think trading MK3 (uneversal trader)... was mod at one point but that's not what im talking about.... Freedom to assign jobs on my stations and ships is what i want. Thats why i like X3 style (ability to setup my complex any way i want) ....

[Ketraar]

(ability to setup my complex any way i want) ....

Yes but you cant, you can set it up based on what the game allows you to, same premise for XR. Granted the options are different, but they are both as effective and both have shortcomings, just different ones. Saying building does not work in XR is just wrong, it works and it works pretty good, at least as good as in AP without 3rd party mods/scripts. It may feel as it doesnt for those that try to do things the AP way, that obviously wont work.

MFG

Ketraar

[Graaf]

And yet, even when playing X3 without the BonusPack, you can have a fully functional station or even complex with only using the basic Mk1 & Mk2 Trade Command Software and one or several transporters with the "Buy/Sell ware for best price"-order.

Well not sure what you mean by "functional" it sure "functions" up to a point when it stops to function properly, until you intervene.

To be honest the use of CAG/CLS is highly overrated and absolutely unnecessary.

Sorry but you just lost any credibility by saying this in a argument about station management.
You either have no clue or are just trying hard to be against something.

MFG

Ketraar

You do know people played X3 before the release of the BonusPack, right?

[Nikola515]

(ability to setup my complex any way i want) ....

Yes but you cant, you can set it up based on what the game allows you to, same premise for XR. Granted the options are different, but they are both as effective and both have shortcomings, just different ones. Saying building does not work in XR is just wrong, it works and it works pretty good, at least as good as in AP without 3rd party mods/scripts. It may feel as it doesnt for those that try to do things the AP way, that obviously wont work.

MFG

Ketraar

And when did i say that stations dont work ? I did say that manager AI sucks and it dont run it's job effectively. We have tools to change price,range or who to sell our products. But there is nothing where we can priorities what we want to sell or buy (this is huge problem for me ) . Manager obviously sucks in doing this. And trading MK2 from X3 wouldn solve this problem. This current system is more just headache when you have more stations. In X3 you set up complex once and you dont need to worry anymore. Unless piates get them or if it sends ship trough xenon sector

[Santi]

X Rebirth is a back to basics game, you as the player have control over everything, it is up to you to buy/sell and make your stations profitable, yes, you have managers that will try to do the job for you, but they will never be as good at it, as you can be.

Yes, I did have my fun setting up traders, stations, CAG, CLS et all and see my worth sky rocket into the billions, but it is nice to go back to being a pilot and work my way up to riches.

[yoyolll]

X Rebirth is a back to basics game, you as the player have control over everything, it is up to you to buy/sell and make your stations profitable, yes, you have managers that will try to do the job for you, but they will never be as good at it, as you can be.

Yes, I did have my fun setting up traders, stations, CAG, CLS et all and see my worth sky rocket into the billions, but it is nice to go back to being a pilot and work my way up to riches.

You cannot run an empire if you must do all your own trading.

You also can't leave it to the managers since they are absolutely worthless, not to mention they constantly require your assistance.

The trade/empire mechanics in XR are just underdeveloped. They don't necessarily have to be like X3. The only reason I compare them is because X3 trade mechanics worked very well. I would love some innovative mechanics, if only they worked as well or better than the previous iterations.

[Nikola515]

I agree... And that's why i was saying that game is incomplete.... If this is intentionally done this way than this is one of worst things ego ever did. Many people stopped playing game because of this this.... As well as trafic on this forum is geting lower and lower by each day

[Ketraar]

The only reason I compare them is because X3 trade mechanics worked very well.

I read your comment and mostly I agree until you drop this bomb, sorry but I want whatever you are smoking.

There are basically no trade mechanics in X3 other than buy low sell high. There is no priority, there is no management AT ALL. You buy a station and you buy ships, then set one ship to buy for cheap ONE ware and if you are LUCKY it will buy from next door and by the time it arrives to the supplier the price has not changed, because if it does your trader will search a new supplier and if you are lucky THAT one will eventually sell you anything, otherwise your ship will spend its time chasing offers forever. The only way this "mechanic" was made somewhat functional was by saturating Jobs and market otherwise the economy would die off in the first 10h.

As I said before, yes you can hire 20 ships that will go fetch and sell stuff but its hardly worth the word "functional". Same aplies to XR you can make building functional AT LEAST as functional as in X3. I have plaid both long enough to know the differences and even though there are shortcomings I would not trade the Build aspect of XR for the old X3 one by a long shot. Just the fact that you cant have self-sustained money printing plexes alone is worth the praise.

Now sure the next step could be interesting, if stations get even more modular and options that allow a wider range of organization, like blacklisting stations and/or zones (also only available in X3 via BP) and a faster way to assign commands/ships but that's an UI problem not a mechanics one.

MFG

Ketraar

[Ravenhurst]

I´m still unconditionally recommending this game as I recommend every game from the X series.
Yes, they shot themselves in the foot with the buggy launch, but if you consider the game early access, the perspective changes. We´re in for a long ride and the foundation is great.
Name one game at its current state that comes close to the feature set of XR- yep, there is not a single one. Period.

[Nikola515]

I think what he is saying that they don't need as much as attention like XR does... We set up complex and it can run for a long time without doing anything . Yes X3 was simple but effective in doing what it was doing. In other hand XR have more advanced sript but it is not working well. I know AI can't replace regular player but this is just r*******.... It is like this UI is only made for one station and not empire.... I had over 40 stations at one point and all i was doing doing trades for stations. I didn't have time to play becuse of micromanaging those stations and trades.

[A5PECT]

On the economic side, XR works sufficiently for me. However I don't seek to do much with economics to begin with; I'm not a particularly trade-orientated player. How effective/ineffective XR's management systems are depends on what you want to do with them. If you want to hear about where my complaints lie, you'd start looking in combat mechanics.

Even then, I believe the fundamental mechanics of combat and tactics are deeper and more enjoyable in XR. It's the higher level strategic management that needs improvement.

I suppose other peoples' complaints about XR's economy are analogous. The individual elements of the economy are more developed in XR, and they have a lot of potential to be combined into something very satisfying. The problem is currently, those elements aren't tied together as cohesively as they could be, and the amount of control the player has over those elements isn't enough to realize their potential.

[Nikola515]

and the amount of control the player has over those elements isn't enough to realize their potential.

I couldn't say it better my self I love whole concept of economy in XR..... From mining ore/gas to moving parts of stations and visible production. It's just breath taking (i got to give ego credit for this ). But lack of control over my stations just makes my blood boil I like to build my empires and make them as efficient as possible. But when i see that manager doing one stupid thing after another just piss me off. Thats why i like X3 style... I have full control over my stations and i can give them jobs and i didn't need AI to make those decisions for me.

[BlackRain]

I think what he is saying that they don't need as much as attention like XR does... We set up complex and it can run for a long time without doing anything . Yes X3 was simple but effective in doing what it was doing. In other hand XR have more advanced sript but it is not working well. I know AI can't replace regular player but this is just r*******.... It is like this UI is only made for one station and not empire.... I had over 40 stations at one point and all i was doing doing trades for stations. I didn't have time to play becuse of micromanaging those stations and trades.

I don't know what version you were playing of XR, but I have 7 stations (one of which is a shipyard and another which is a small shipyard) and the stations are running themselves perfectly. They are buying resources, moving them around to my other stations and so on and so forth. I am using the galaxy trade mod, which allows me to trade in the whole galaxy, but I am not using it for my shipyard which is doing just fine moving goods. I guess you could just say I am using a mod and it doesn't count, but it is working well with an option to trade in all of the galaxy (and the shipyard which is just working in cluster is doing well enough)