UPDATED: Bernd *was* spreading false/misleading info; Latest post much better!

Astyrrean · Post by **Astyrrean** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 06:39

As I was somewhat frustrated at some of the responses to my post, I decided to go and take some measurements.

The results are that at no point during gameplay does X:Rebirth utilize more than 1.7 GB of RAM on my Win7 x64 system. See for yourself:

[ external image ]

Of course, you are both welcome and encouraged to test it yourself on your own system and let me know if you see different results.

My test was conducted with 2x gameplay sessions (as you can see from the graph) with normal gameplay, including both space and docked.

Now please anyone just don't come back saying that 6GB isn't enough to play this game, unless you bring some hard evidence (e.g. measured paging) to go with it.

Cheers,

Astyrrean

EDIT: Per (good) suggestion below

orcinus · Post by **orcinus** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 06:43

You should probably rephrase that to say "At no point during gameplay does X:R utilize more than 1.7 GB" to avoid further flames due to people not reading or understanding properly.

chikatilo · Post by **chikatilo** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 06:58

Agree with game using less than 4GB of ram, so having 6, 8, 16, 32 or a billion gigabytes of ram doesn't matter.
Having more than 4GB of ram doesn't matter for any current game as far as I know. Speed of your ram does matter,
slightly.

Example tested 10 recent games with 4Gb, 8Gb and 16Gb : http://www.techbuyersguru.com/RAMgaming.php
Having more than 4GB of ram on a dedicated gaming rig is just plain silly, 8GB if you plan on having a lot of programs
running on the background. Might as well take some memory sticks out and use as cupholders if you're running 16 or 32GB
of ram.

The only way I can think of to make a rig with a high end GPU "oddly balanced" is by pairing it with a sub $100 CPU.
Or a GTX690 may suffer from possible terrible SLI scaling on Rebirth's engine, I pretty much agree on Bernd talking
out his ass on this one

On a sidenote :

Hiper-Boy wrote:
oddly balanced machines
My upstairs computer has a i7 3960x with 32GB of ram, and a titan, only getting 20 FPS... Right.

Nvidia actually sold $1.000 titan units that easily get beaten by $220 worth of amd cards? Dem crazy marketing skills

http://oi42.tinypic.com/j81ndd.jpg

Halconnen · Post by **Halconnen** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:04

4GB is nonsense. 8GB is tight. 12-16GB is comfortable.

I absolutely loathed having to close most of my background programs when gaming on my old 4GB box. And plenty of games I have on my current rig would fill close to 4GB on their own and force the computer to start swapping (Heavily modded Skyrim for one, which is also LAA).

Ratez · Post by **Ratez** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:07

Halconnen wrote:4GB is nonsense. 8GB is tight. 12-16GB is comfortable.

I absolutely loathed having to close most of my background programs when gaming on my old 4GB box. And plenty of games I have on my current rig would fill close to 4GB on their own and force the computer to start swapping (Heavily modded Skyrim for one, which is also LAA).

If you think 8gb is tight while having 12-16gb is comfortable then you probably didn't read much articles about the benefits of going over 8gb. Which is close to nil in terms of gaming.

Katastrophi · Post by **Katastrophi** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:09

Ratez wrote:
Halconnen wrote:4GB is nonsense. 8GB is tight. 12-16GB is comfortable.

I absolutely loathed having to close most of my background programs when gaming on my old 4GB box. And plenty of games I have on my current rig would fill close to 4GB on their own and force the computer to start swapping (Heavily modded Skyrim for one, which is also LAA).
If you think 8gb is tight while having 12-16gb is comfortable then you probably didn't read much articles about the benefits of going over 8gb. Which is close to nil in terms of gaming.

You're obviously not running enough instances of EVE Online simultaneously. You can't be a proper miner without running 8 accounts at the same time!

chikatilo · Post by **chikatilo** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:10

Ratez wrote:
Halconnen wrote:4GB is nonsense. 8GB is tight. 12-16GB is comfortable.

I absolutely loathed having to close most of my background programs when gaming on my old 4GB box. And plenty of games I have on my current rig would fill close to 4GB on their own and force the computer to start swapping (Heavily modded Skyrim for one, which is also LAA).
If you think 8gb is tight while having 12-16gb is comfortable then you probably didn't read much articles about the benefits of going over 8gb. Which is close to nil in terms of gaming.

It's not close to nill, it is nill, and so is having 8GB of ram over 4GB unless you have software running on the background for some reason.

Ratez · Post by **Ratez** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:13

chikatilo wrote:
Ratez wrote:
Halconnen wrote:4GB is nonsense. 8GB is tight. 12-16GB is comfortable.

I absolutely loathed having to close most of my background programs when gaming on my old 4GB box. And plenty of games I have on my current rig would fill close to 4GB on their own and force the computer to start swapping (Heavily modded Skyrim for one, which is also LAA).
If you think 8gb is tight while having 12-16gb is comfortable then you probably didn't read much articles about the benefits of going over 8gb. Which is close to nil in terms of gaming.
It's not close to nill, it is nill, and so is having 8GB of ram over 4GB unless you have software running on the background for some reason.

8gb because I run dual monitors and the price has dropped enough for it to be a cost-effective luxury item if I wanted to watch movies and play. Things like mining without something else to do? Stuff that! Sometimes I play with no volume so my girlfriend can watch a movie on the other monitor. Worth it!

Halconnen · Post by **Halconnen** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:17

With Browser, background apps and everything else running on my computer right now, there are 10GB committed and another 12GB used for caching. (I'm one of the people with 32GB, not 16.) This is without -any- games running.

If I only had 8GB, I'd be forced to close my browser and several other programs to allow me to launch a game without forcing the computer to start swapping like mad.

Given I admin a (heavily modded) Minecraft server, I often have that open (muted) while playing other games. Bam. 4-6GB for Minecraft, 3+GB for Rebirth. Oops?

This doesn't even begin to cover memory hungry processes like editing many-layered high resolution images, running virtual machines or video rendering. I especially like it when my computer remains at least -useable- during the latter. Which it is when I clamp the rendering threads to 3.

Edit: And just for reference, I paid €100 for all four 8GB sticks combined. One year ago.

chikatilo · Post by **chikatilo** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:18

Ratez wrote:8gb because I run dual monitors and the price has dropped enough for it to be a cost-effective luxury item if I wanted to watch movies and play. Things like mining without something else to do? Stuff that! Sometimes I play with no volume so my girlfriend can watch a movie on the other monitor. Worth it!

Hey man, if it makes you feel better, it's only like $35, be happy. But running more screens requires 0,00 RAM, your girlfriend's windows media player uses 0,06GB of ram. It doesn't do a thing

chikatilo · Post by **chikatilo** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:21

Halconnen wrote:With Browser, background apps and everything else running on my computer right now, there are 10GB committed and another 12GB used for caching. (I'm one of the people with 32GB, not 16.) This is without -any- games running.

If I only had 8GB, I'd be forced to close my browser and several other programs to allow me to launch a game without forcing the computer to start swapping like mad.

Given I admin a (heavily modded) Minecraft server, I often have that open (muted) while playing other games. Bam. 4-6GB for Minecraft, 3+GB for Rebirth. Oops?

This doesn't even begin to cover memory hungry processes like editing many-layered high resolution images, running virtual machines or video rendering. I especially like it when my computer remains at least -useable- during the latter. Which it is when I clamp the rendering threads to 3.

I said it's 100% useless for a dedicated gaming rig, basically most gamers have an antivirus and their game running and that's it. I posted benchies for 10 recent games, been assembling pc's since the commodore64 era. I did not say having a lot of memory is useless for everybody, that would be nonsense.

Mauzi! · Post by **Mauzi!** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 07:28

Lol@ this funny RAM discussion.

You guys are aware that depending on your harddisk setup, the system direly requires tons of RAM to run smoothly ? As in, if it hasn't like 1-4GB RAM to spare for hdd caching, your performance might drop to zero if the game is shoddy programmed in accessing files.

This shouldn't matter really if XR is using <2GB for you (I had it use 3.5GB at some point!) while you have an SSD that's fast enough to make up for little to no caching. But generally 8GB is the perfect amount of RAM for this exact reason while using these rough maximum values:

2GB Windows
4GB Game
2GB HDD/SSD cache

Also note that if there's not enough RAM for caching, the system will start swapping to get RAM free. Thus, all this discussion is not only about how much RAM XR uses, while more RAM can actually improve the performance slightly (not much really though unless your HDDs suck for real).

A good test to verify that there's no swapping involved is to.. well, disable it. If that hurts your performance or even leads to errors, you clearly have too little RAM.

Sgt Hawker · Post by **Sgt Hawker** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 08:33

OMG to much Nerd rage

It puts the stick into the ram slot.
It puts the pc into the pciedfghijk crap where does it go

guys and gal? chill out we don't care whose ram is bigger

Katastrophi · Post by **Katastrophi** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 08:36

Sgt Hawker wrote:OMG to much Nerd rage

It puts the stick into the ram slot.
It puts the pc into the pciedfghijk crap where does it go

guys and gal? chill out we don't care whose ram is bigger

Man... I recently upgraded to 32 GB and last week my father-in-law showed me his new 64 GB rig.

Ratez · Post by **Ratez** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 08:37

Katastrophi wrote:
Sgt Hawker wrote:OMG to much Nerd rage

It puts the stick into the ram slot.
It puts the pc into the pciedfghijk crap where does it go

guys and gal? chill out we don't care whose ram is bigger
Man... I recently upgraded to 32 GB and last week my father-in-law showed me his new 64 GB rig.

It makes me blush just imagining his 64gb ram... MmMmm..

Mauzi! · Post by **Mauzi!** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 08:50

Katastrophi wrote:Man... I recently upgraded to 32 GB and last week my father-in-law showed me his new 64 GB rig.

Somehow, the way you put it makes me think you actually mean cm and not GB...

daish0 · Post by **daish0** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 09:08

Mauzi! wrote:
Katastrophi wrote:Man... I recently upgraded to 32 GB and last week my father-in-law showed me his new 64 GB rig.
Somehow, the way you put it makes me think you actually mean cm and not GB...

You know ... people often tend to talk bs, what if I told you I replaced my new 128 with a 256 GB ram rig? Just because my penis is longer

Beermachine · Post by **Beermachine** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 10:16

chikatilo wrote:Agree with game using less than 4GB of ram, so having 6, 8, 16, 32 or a billion gigabytes of ram doesn't matter.
Having more than 4GB of ram doesn't matter for any current game as far as I know. Speed of your ram does matter,
slightly.

Example tested 10 recent games with 4Gb, 8Gb and 16Gb : http://www.techbuyersguru.com/RAMgaming.php
Having more than 4GB of ram on a dedicated gaming rig is just plain silly, 8GB if you plan on having a lot of programs
running on the background. Might as well take some memory sticks out and use as cupholders if you're running 16 or 32GB
of ram.

The only way I can think of to make a rig with a high end GPU "oddly balanced" is by pairing it with a sub $100 CPU.
Or a GTX690 may suffer from possible terrible SLI scaling on Rebirth's engine, I pretty much agree on Bernd talking
out his ass on this one

On a sidenote :

Hiper-Boy wrote:
oddly balanced machines
My upstairs computer has a i7 3960x with 32GB of ram, and a titan, only getting 20 FPS... Right.
Nvidia actually sold $1.000 titan units that easily get beaten by $220 worth of amd cards? Dem crazy marketing skills

http://oi42.tinypic.com/j81ndd.jpg

Fully quoted as people need to actually read this!

Remember reading exactly the same thing 3 years ago on tomshardware guide and other sources, hence went for fast tri channel 6gb for my gaming rig, doesn't look like much has changed. No game (played most of the lastest ones) unless they have dreadful memory leaks has suffered from it at all. Could easily upgrade, but given that for gaming it's going to about as effective as putting go faster stripes on the side of my car to increase it's speed I don't see much point.

Note - For anyone whose background processes are running >500mb (including explorer + that hog steam), unless your rendering, running multiple programs, watching streams etc then I'd seriously check your task manager RIGHT NOW to see what the hell is eating it all!

Edited - fixed quote.

SteveMill · Post by **SteveMill** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 10:33

Egosoft always blames the user for performance issues. Basically it's your fault for not having the precise, down to the last component, pc they got it working okay on.

RWolf · Post by **RWolf** » Thu, 21. Nov 13, 10:40

We are all getting "Bernd" here. I honestly start to get the impression that he is a compulsive liar or just cant be utterly transparent in his articulation.

Over on another forum someone linked to a page that said Egosoft only had 33k in the bank in 2011. If they were strapped for cash, or were struggling for whatever reason, they should just say so and release the game under the pretense that its a "work in progress" aka a paid beta. They would have gladly gotten far more support and respect.

So many groups are using crowd funding and keeping the development process open, it doesnt have to be a charity but it doesnt mean you cant be supported by a community that actually respects the work going into it.

By lying and trying to look for areas with more revenue at the cost of the current fans, you just start to disgust everyone in the process. Its burning unnecessary bridges. If Chris Roberts can embrace the new way of thinking regarding development and community, so can the devs at Egosoft. Hell, SOE is doing it too for Everquest next and they are getting support because of it.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

UPDATED: Bernd was spreading false/misleading info; Latest post much better!