Steam Refunds - A How To Guide

[Mauzi!]

<funny examples>

Haha, that's quite a few good ones there. But no, in my opinion they have no legal relevance under normal circumstances. Unless of course, someone advertised "always sunny" then he might take sh!t for it, it's all about what was promised.

Which gets us back to our case here with Egosoft, which is crystal clear.

[Mauzi!]

Simply quoting that from that article is just stupid and won't get you anywhere.

Or even better... Learn to not invest in something uncertain.


And most important: Learn to accept the consequences of your actions.
It will make you more responsible,capable and efficient and also save you a lot of pain.

You are wrong in so many things in that... at least for European standards.

Firstly, legally the article will easily suffice and you can add many more reviews or even demonstrate the game. Getting denied the refund nevertheless is just ignoring your rights in the hope that you won't start a lawsuite.

Secondly, this is not about an "action" or an "investment" (which are protected similarily though) but a "purchase" of a product for which rules apply, in this case about false advertisement.

Looking at your post, there's no point in discussing further with you though since you just make up wrong claims and yell insults. I suggest that you read up on applicable laws before posting.

[dzhedzho]

This is the reason it's so disappointing that Small Claims decisions carry almost no weight as precedent.

In order to set a precedent for something like this, the case has to be fully tried by a reasonably high court.... and companies deliberately fight to never have to face that challenge.

Do you know of what happened with The War Z? Steam offered refunds to everyone who had bought it, along with some delightful platitudes about how mistakes are made and the developers, who certainly weren't Valve, had done wrong, seems very nice of them.

In reality, the only reason they offered those refunds was to dodge culpability in a class-action suit that had formed over the game. As you know, a refund is always the seller's responsibility and the Steam Subscriber Agreement would certainly have come up in the case..... and they know that in the long run their reasoning will not hold up in courts anywhere. They are an end-point retailer selling a product... and so in order to retain the power their TOS gives them due to remaining uncontested they will do whatever it takes to keep it out of court. I have no doubt they'd have been willing to settle at a heavy loss in that case just to keep a trial from reaching a verdict.

Laws are changing to reflect the modern age, but oh-so-slowly and the big companies really can fight it tooth and nail.

Most of the EU is not a common-law justice, so precedent is not required. For good or for worse. Not sure how things stand with EU level regulations.

Anyway, except some exceptions (like tickets etc), you cannot do "no refund" in EU. Funnily enough you don't even have to sue them, it's a small claims issue, a clerk decides and merchant have to issue you the refund. No courts. If the merchant want's to appeal, they can do it (sometimes), but the original claimant has nothing to do with it, it's between the merchant and the state...

[Warlord]

I bought a key not on steam but from some steam-key shop around the interweb, paid via paypal !

Where can i request a refund ? Steam ? Shop ? Paypal ? Egosoft ?

[dzhedzho]

I bought a key not on steam but from some steam-key shop around the interweb, paid via paypal !

Where can i request a refund ? Steam ? Shop ? Paypal ? Egosoft ?

The place you bought it from, obviously...

[Warlord]

I bought a key not on steam but from some steam-key shop around the interweb, paid via paypal !

Where can i request a refund ? Steam ? Shop ? Paypal ? Egosoft ?

The place you bought it from, obviously...

This is what i did, they denied a refund.

They argue, they are only selling a key and they delivered the key perfectly...

[zaslon9]

yell insults

Where?

[Mauzi!]

This is what i did, they denied a refund.

They argue, they are only selling a key and they delivered the key perfectly...

This is quite a cheap try, and sadly it will work with most "average gamers" due to them not knowing their rights.

You might want to remind them on not being your service provider for getting you a key, but your reseller which also includes all sorts of warranties and product liabilities which includes taking back what they sold you.

If they were service provider only, you would have payed them a fee for their work while paying the actually key whereever they bought it for you.

[Mauzi!]

yell insults

Where?

I'll not explain your very own post to you and by that continue it, but you can easily readup your posts in this thread and reflect on them. In fact, I strongly advise such - I heard that not being offensive towards others helps avoiding forum warnings.

Peace out, for the sake of this thread let's call that a non-topic.

[Hippotastic]

so if I bought my game at play.com, amazon.co.uk, or any other retailer, and the game required steam for activation, then I would pursue Play.com, Amazon.co.uk or the retailer I bought it from as the steam requirement could be viewed as a service in this context.

But if you buy the game from Steam, they are the retailer and the service provider... And surely the retail aspect takes precedence over the service aspect that supports the other retailers?

and that makes the non refund policy questionable.

[Mauzi!]

Correct, you always refer to the place that took your money.

Also, non-refund clauses are obsolete anyways if there's law regulating this - they cannot just disable laws at will, afterall. So, if you just wish to return stuff without reason, their clause is valid - but if e.g. as with XR you have a complaint in regards to false advertisement (for which there's a law protecting buyers) you have plenty of rights.

My above link and quote from the interview will provide enough false advertisement statements to get this done, especially combined with the many other complaints and ugly reviews out there.

[zaslon9]

yell insults

Where?

I'll not explain your very own post to you and by that continue it, but you can easily readup your posts in this thread and reflect on them. In fact, I strongly advise such - I heard that not being offensive towards others helps avoiding forum warnings.

Peace out, for the sake of this thread let's call that a non-topic.

Looking at your post, there's no point in discussing further with you though since you just make up wrong claims and yell insults. I suggest that you read up on applicable laws before posting.

No, please, quote me where I "yelled insults" to you. BTW it would have taken you less to just give the quote than write that response.

[FixxxerNOR]

I have also asked for a refund in steam credits.

It's very rare that i feel a game is worth the effort of claiming a refund.

It has happened to two games. Rainbow Six Vegas 2. After a week ( got it two weeks early ) i got a refund at the store i ordered it from.
And NFS Shift. Because of the suspension bug that got you bouncing like a lowrider contest. Same store. Both PS3 game and opened!

I have almost 120 minutes of gameplay. Sure, that's not enough to examine a game completely, but you get a general idea. Also looking at forums, it's not what i want to take part in. Mostly because of the awful trading system and UI.

I don't think i'm going to get a negative answer. Since i'm registered since 2005 and have 114 game now on steam.

I'm regretting deleting Albion Prelude/Terran Conflict, before i had tested out Rebirth and watched the feedback.

[giskard]

Only the software industry has managed to except it self from consumer laws using disclaimers to sell broken or incomplete products. But the back lash we see when this happens will eventually lead to changes in the law.

Thats how laws get made.
Assuming its not illegal already and we just need to challenge the practice.

Can you imagine a disclaimer from Ford ?

Driving on third party roads invalidates your warrantee.

[Artificer]

Basically, there are three fundamental points of consumer law that take effect here, in most countries:

First, that a product must be fit for purpose - that is, if I buy a toaster, I can reasonably expect it to be able to toast bread. Should I buy a printer, I can reasonably expect it to print documents. Should I buy a game I can reasonably expect it to be playable.

Secondly, that the good should be as described; this one is rather more subjective, of course, but the fundamental term is key features - if a key feature of any product is deemed to not be as represented prior to your purchase, you have a right to seek redress. What this one boils down to usually is whether a court can conclude that marketing materials were deliberately misleading, resulting in a purchase that would not have otherwise been made.

Thirdly, that it is the responsibility of the seller - not the manufacturer - to ensure that those goods are fit for purpose and as described. Steam tries to get around this by declaring that they are selling a service, not a good, but the (usually untested, admittedly) legal fact is that you purchased a (digital) good from Steam and by most consumer laws you have a right to seek redress from them if that good does not meet one or both of the first two challenges.

Again, this varies from country to country (and sometimes region to region) but most consumer laws follow these basic guidelines. Simply saying "Oh, we're exempt" is obviously not enough to actually exempt them from the law, but they assume (correctly) that most people will simply absorb the loss.

[FixxxerNOR]

I got a standard copy&paste "We can not give a refund..." answer.

He probably didn't even read the content, just the subject. Which said "Long time customer. Refund."

Still, i will try and hammer on.

Now trying the "other people got a refund as goodwill from steam" card. Aswell as explaining that it's not the bugs i'm returning it for.

Next time i'll pull out the EU regulations regarding sales over internet.

Even EA listened to that.

X:AP installed again. Gonna blast the S#4" out of some boron now!

[Ravenhurst]

wow, this thread must be the most pathetic little place on the whole internet.

kids should learn to read and understand TOS and EULAS before they use Mommies credit card on the web.

Credit Card fraud is serious business. Chargeback on goods people ordered and received is considered a criminal activity.

[FixxxerNOR]

wow, this thread must be the most pathetic little place on the whole internet.

kids should learn to read and understand TOS and EULAS before they use Mommies credit card on the web.

Credit Card fraud is serious business. Chargeback on goods people ordered and received is considered a criminal activity.

wow....

Posting in the wrong thread?

[Artificer]

wow, this thread must be the most pathetic little place on the whole internet.

kids should learn to read and understand TOS and EULAS before they use Mommies credit card on the web.

Credit Card fraud is serious business. Chargeback on goods people ordered and received is considered a criminal activity.

Yeeeeah, first post kinda says "Don't chargeback".

[cjoshuav]

Credit Card fraud is serious business. Chargeback on goods people ordered and received is considered a criminal activity.

The cardholder can simply (and, likely with some justification in this case) make the argument that the product supplied is sufficiently inconsistent with the product for which they paid that the fraud is on the part of the vendor.