Why no multiplayer?

[KoshZdryh]

And an army of destroyers.... well can destroy basically anything, think, you just got your own first shiny factory, and then some jerk comes in with a few capital ships and blows it to bits because he doesn't like the competition.

I don't think god would permit that -- an invulnerable M0 police could make you think twice before trying anything funny.

[Electric-Shadow]

Err, I can think of a good reason why there is no multiplayer.

One person could technically dominate the universe.

If they made enough factories and enough money, then they could have an army of destroyers eventually.

And an army of destroyers.... well can destroy basically anything, think, you just got your own first shiny factory, and then some jerk comes in with a few capital ships and blows it to bits because he doesn't like the competition.

So for a proper multiplayer to be released, there would have to be a LOT of changes, to prevent complete monopolisation of... well... everything.
And I think that would have to be a game of its own (although if done right it may be a damn good game).

That's where my suggestion for universe protection could be useful, as stated earlier each player would have their own universe which can only be built in by the universe owner, but can be visited by anyone for trade only, but cannot be attacked until the universe has a certain military notoriety level for instance. Seperate from the race notoriety this could be used to gauge someones military power and thus used to help protect new players from attackers

[Basti53]

Ah, multiplayer. I love this topic.

Well, to get some true facts in here:

The Only, and belive me, really the only, reason for no multiplayers in any X Game yet is as said from several Mods and Egosoft guys before: MONEY.
It will indeed cost alot of money to get a multiplayer working. They havend added anything for a multiplayer in the game, or did even think about it. Means to get multiplayer working smooth the whole game need to be ready for it. Thats alot of work to do, and no money to spend on it.
And thats really the only reason why there is no multiplayer.

But no Post without busting someone elses comments:

1. The whole "its impossible because of traffic" talk is just crap. Take a look at Eve Online, they managed it. Take a look at Jumpgate, they did it as well. Now take a look at Jumpgate evolution, they going to do it again. And what about Freespace?
So Traffic wont be the problem at all.
2. The " MP will sux, kids could destroy my stuff" is crap as well. How could they, if they cant play with you?
For example, most of you whould like to play with the same people all the time again, means you and you 3 mates who play X3. You just get a server ready, start a game there, and start buliding up your empires. Put a Password on the server and your assets are save. No kid will harm you. Its By the way the only way how X cound be done in Multiplayer without being a MMO. Your Empire wont be offline anymore, it will be online on a server. And if you switch the server, you cant take your stuff with you.
3. About the scripting: as stated in 2, there is only one possible way to do MP in X the right way without being a MMO or a game based just on fithing each other. So if you and your 3 Mates playing on the same server all day, who said it wont be possible for you to just install the scripts on the server, so you all could use them?




Short: Its possible, but expensive. Egosoft cant afford it, because it takes alot of time = money, and they want to spend that time in the Singleplayer content. And that is good! Even if i whould love to build empires together with my Pals in the X UNiverse, i rather see a very good Singleplayer Game than a Averange Singleplayer Game with a Unbalanced Multiplayer Part.

[Pogi]

There is no shortage of enemies in the X3 world..I don't want to see other players added to the list as well..Combat multiplayer as we know the game now would not work in my opinion. More to do with the A-hole factor than anything else. I don't want some jerk running around destroying everything I have built with his M6 just because he can. Trading and building is the real strength of this game and is perfect for coop play.

Some limited combat assistance can be implemented into coop play if other players (neutral/coop) stations are allowed to spawn in your game world.

Imagine this:

One of the coop players builds a mosquito missile factory in "his" game world in Spaceweed Drift....That factory shows up in "your" game world..It is named as the coop player names it..It begins trading locally...You on the other hand have a vulture mining ore in Spaceweed drift in "your" game world...You need some protection against pirates for the vulture...You work a deal with the coop player to supply an M3 to protect your vulture...The other coop player purchases an M3 in "his" game world..Flies it to the special gateway station in "his" game world..Gives it an order to protect your vulture and walla..It spawns at his station in your game world and goes to work. As payment you agree to transfer to him a certain amount of your mined ore through the special gateway station.

Combat assistance should be limited to M3 and smaller only and with only limited combat commands such as "protect".

The coop players do not need to see the real world maps of any other players games, only the list of stations in that sector that have been discovered, a listing of their ships assisting coop etc....Limiting the data available to coop players to static objects only, is all that is really needed.

If a coop player decides to self destruct a station, this should also reflect on other coop players maps.


In my opinion this would work..Would not cost a tremendous amount..Would make the X series a truly dynamic game.

I can envision Egosoft creating new station types, new wares, software etc. That are exclusive to certain clans. These only available at a central global trading hub..Clan to clan.

[Electric-Shadow]

You made some pretty darn good points there and looking at it from your point of view I would much rather have X3 the way it is rather than risk a tarnished title, which lets face it is one of the best titles out there.

If it's feasable then it would be great to have an XMultiplayer but obviously at this point it isn't so i'm more than happy with X3 as it is just now, I was just curious to know why there has been no multiplayer so far.

X3 is truley one of the best space games i'ev played and certainly the best looking too, keep up the great work on this title egosoft!!!

[(/\)arped]

I can't help but feel sorry for Egosoft, since these constant topics seriously must put them on the spot. Look at it this way:

- Egosoft don't ever incorporate multiplayer. Everyone is still happy playing single player X-Universe (or potentially, other, in the future) games as always. These topics continue, but they get swept away eventually. A pipe dream, for now.

- Egosoft incorporate multiplayer. It's a basic deathmatch style mode, and only pleases a small amount of people. Others still push for better/other forms of multiplayer and this sort of thing continues.

- Egosoft incorporate 'Spore' style multiplay. Where there is some basic interaction between players, but limited in comparison to direct peer-2-peer play. I'm sure this is easier to implement, but I'm just as sure that again, people complain and desire better.


- Egosoft could incorporate some other form of multiplayer, such as a server-based system, for 3-4 friends to play around in the same universe. Although much more practical than a large-scale game, many problems would still remain, not the least of which being hardware limitations. Yes I know that 'EVE can do it' but EVE isn't X. It's a totally different engine, a totally different game.

- Finally, Egosoft incorporate MMO style gameplay. First of all, (looking past the hardware and other obvious issues) this clearly won't please everyone. The numerous problems and then possible solutions, won't please everyone. The sheer amount of nerfing and averaging-out of the ship classes just for an MMO to work, won't please anyone. This, combined with the sheer amount of time and money that will have been put into the game, put egosoft under a lot of pressure. Should the game be received badly, this could be disasterous for them, as recent events with Hellgate: London developer, Flagship Studios shows.
However, even if the game is well received and is to everyone's tastes, I am sure that many (including Egosoft themselves) will be loathe to cope with the monthly fees that go hand-in-hand with most MMOs.

So, in short, I don't see why another of these discussions is necessary. There have been plenty of ideas stated in previous threads if Egosoft decides to read through them. Failing that, if you really think you have something to contribute, I'm sure that DevNet will welcome you. But to be honest, a lot of this is treading on old ground. There's a reason it hasn't happened yet, and that reason happens to be the cruel reality of time, money, and the trap of trying to please everyone.

Just my rather large 2 cents.

[KoshZdryh]

Money ... money ... money ...
I keep hearing that.
How about:
If we are so addicted and want so much the X-multiplayer why not just make a company and invest in this project ?...

/crowd says : BOO !

What was that ? Sorry I thought you really wanted that ...

[(/\)arped]

Money ... money ... money ...
I keep hearing that.
How about:
If we are so addicted and want so much the X-multiplayer why not just make a company and invest in this project ?...

/crowd says : BOO !

What was that ? Sorry I thought you really wanted that ...

Indeed. I believe this is a point one of the mods made earlier...

[Pogi]

@(/\)arped..Nobody said anything about forcing something down anyone's throat...

I noticed your third revelation

"- Egosoft incorporate 'Spore' style multiplay. Where there is some basic interaction between players, but limited in comparison to direct peer-2-peer play. I'm sure this is easier to implement, but I'm just as sure that again, people complain and desire better. "

,was the least confrontational..Simply because it is the only way to offer multi-player to the X world with the least problems and most choice for the players. You like single player? No problem..No need to tread on others that desire more from the game. Actually truth be told, this is a "new" idea...Cheers

[(/\)arped]

Pogi, apologies, my post wasn't meant to be confrontational, merely realistic. And far from the scenarios I mentioned being forced upon someone, I simply mean that some people would prefer the game to be done in another way.

If anything, a natural progression seems the best approach. So beginning with the 'Spore' style multiplayer, then moving on to local games, then larger games, etc. Time consuming yes, but this allows for hardware limitations to become less restricting, and for community feedback to point egosoft in the right direction.

Of course, to keep others happy, previous versions, such as straight single player, would need to be available... (Or the aforementioned 'Spore' variation) Which adds to costs, which doesn't work in anyone's favor.

Aah... Time will tell. It's unclear what the future is for the X Universe at the moment anyway, considering TC may be the last installment in the current plotline of the X Universe... So this may be an altogether pointless conversation. (In terms of the X Universe as we know it anyways)

[Pogi]

natural progression?...Do you remember the year that BTF came out?..I do. Talk started then about multi-player. How many years does natural progression take?

No..We will never see this game full combat multi-player "as we know the game now" but, the method I described above combines trading and limited combat support in a multi-player environment that many would enjoy for years to come.

There are tons of players here that wake up every morning with X on their breakfast plate...They understand the limitations of multi-player in this game, but would also welcome what could be made available to enhance their game experiance.

[KoshZdryh]

And this goes on and on and on ...

I don't think most of the X and ELITE players really want multiplayer--not enough to really pay for it.

A multiplayer-edition will normally be addressed to "the rest of the world".
And you can't please "the rest of the world"...

[Pogi]

Nobody said anything about paying for anything..IP to IP support is all that is needed...A patch could do it...A station added to the game...A simple graphical interface...IP support...The hardest thing about the whole thing would be determining the functions "long term" of the graphical interface or rather the direction to take the game with this new addition.

[KoshZdryh]

Nobody said anything about paying for anything...

Oh , I kind of disagree with that ...
So you* want it for free ...
Why don't you* develop it ?!


*X players who want multiplayer.

[Pogi]

We can't for legal reasons and we have no access to the gaming engine or code.

[Demolisher 2]

We can't for legal reasons and we have no access to the gaming engine or code.

There are 300,000 people registered on this forum. If each of us donated just £100, we would likely have enough money to buy out EGOSOFT themselves.

[(/\)arped]

natural progression?...Do you remember the year that BTF came out?..I do. Talk started then about multi-player. How many years does natural progression take?

No..We will never see this game full combat multi-player "as we know the game now" but, the method I described above combines trading and limited combat support in a multi-player environment that many would enjoy for years to come.

There are tons of players here that wake up every morning with X on their breakfast plate...They understand the limitations of multi-player in this game, but would also welcome what could be made available to enhance their game experiance.

Like I said, natural progression will take a great deal more time. The main reason X hasn't gone online before now is hardware constraints! Instead ES have chunked-out the main game, which in doing so, has made the game harder still to run online except in the most basic of ways.
I agree that if this continues, we may never see it online in it's fullest form, but it will be a constant work in progress.

Hence, natural progression. The little bits of multiplayer added, then more tacked on where/when/how appropriate.

[Nyax]

We can't for legal reasons and we have no access to the gaming engine or code.

There are 300,000 people registered on this forum. If each of us donated just £100, we would likely have enough money to buy out EGOSOFT themselves.

That is true. However it's also irrelevant since-

1) Most of those 300,000 are just lurkers or people who visited once.
2) As i keep on pointing out polls have shown over and over agin that most of those 300,000 who do visit regularly don't particularly want multiplayer.

[KoshZdryh]

There are 300,000 people registered on this forum. If each of us donated just £100, we would likely have enough money to buy out EGOSOFT themselves.

That would be like a "friendly"-takeover ...
Most of "us" didn't even log on for over a year ...
But what about 100 euros/interesteduser just for loaning them in developing this ?If it fails - we loose;if it succeeds we get our money back and they have big profits.

It's 100 % theoretical ... problem being who would actually give the money -- taking the risks in account.

Count me in ...

[Pogi]

The ones that don't want multiplayer are afraid of the "kiddy factor"..I don't blame them..Nobody wants some punk kid messing up their game...I just feel that my approach would appeal to the more "mature" players of the game....Kid or mature is really in my opinion a major factor that Egosoft is dealing with in determining the direction of this game...We saw in X2 the highly childish pirate ships for example..In X3 this was changed to reflect a more mature audience...I think that Egosoft is going to have to make a choice someday as to whether they want a blow your buddies away game or one that reflects what in my opinion is the strength of this game, the trading and building....My approach allows the game to remain intact as it is, with the same ebb and flow that we are used to....Like I said before, there are plenty of bad guys in the game as it is...Edit: A game like this "only" needs "the most basic of ways" to enhance it...The X experience "stand alone" is great. A basic interface would make a great game..greater.