EMX Entertainment Mogul X-Universe Mod | Updates & Always looking for Help! 12-09-07

[Flybye]

Good points. I've been thinking, too.....

What if we started the mod with the player owning a modified standard TP that can hold 1000ish cargo?

As time progresses, you can save your pennies and buy the Queen of Liners, the Fhloston. The Fhloston can cost 10m+ credits and have a cargo capacity of 10000+

[matches]

I like that- Enough of a ship to get the fledgling Entertainment Mogal started, but not enough to get RICH in 4 hours!! Fhloston Ship being the ultimate goal gives the player somthing to shoot for while extending the playability of the Idea- BUILDING that cruise fleet, instead of starting out with THE ship.

[Flybye]

The ultimate goals should be:
1) Have several Fhlostons
2) Have secure passage ways to the 4 corners of the universe.
3) Drown in your own Space Fuel

Hmm.....maybe we should have prescripted custom stations planted at the corners of the universe. One in each primary sector and severa scattered in different locations.

GUYS!! Things to discuss:
1) Prescripted custom stations planted in each primary sector and several additional more scattered throughout the universe including sectors in the FAR corners of the universe instead of having to build the stations yourself.
2) Game start with a modified TP holding 1000wares. You must slowly progress to buy the Fhloston, the main cruise liner.
3) AStar Pathfinder Commands script & LV's MK3 Warning usage?
4) Possible to calculate profits based on ship speed? i.e. More credits travelling at 50m/s than zipping through a sector at 150m/s OR calculate profits depending on trip time. If you took longer than the estimated time (took too long) player gets penalized. If you did it too quickly (player zipped through a sector or jumped) player also gets penalized.

[Squelch]

GUYS!! Things to discuss:
1) Prescripted custom stations planted in each primary sector and several additional more scattered throughout the universe including sectors in the FAR corners of the universe instead of having to build the stations yourself.

Do you mean all stations prescribed, or just a few to get started with the rest built? This could be extended to a psuedo GOD type placement as the game progresses new stations are added. Maybe in competition. Speaking of which......

2) Game start with a modified TP holding 1000wares. You must slowly progress to buy the Fhloston, the main cruise liner.

That sounds in keeping with how the vanilla plot starts. Small ship/little resources, and work up from there.

3) AStar Pathfinder Commands script & LV's MK3 Warning usage?

You know my wishes on this. XAI-Corp N.O.S. uses incoming enemy warnings too. Incidently LV's UT protection could also be modified so as to have "hired" protection for the cruise liner.

4) Possible to calculate profits based on ship speed? i.e. More credits travelling at 50m/s than zipping through a sector at 150m/s OR calculate profits depending on trip time. If you took longer than the estimated time (took too long) player gets penalized. If you did it too quickly (player zipped through a sector or jumped) player also gets penalized.

That sounds like a pretty balanced way of implementing the payment system. How would your AI commander deal with these criteria?

[Flybye]

....Do you mean all stations prescribed, or just a few to get started with the rest built? This could be extended to a psuedo GOD type placement as the game progresses new stations are added. Maybe in competition. Speaking of which......

Hmm...so maybe have a few god controlled ones, and you can still buy and place additional ones with your own TLs

....That sounds like a pretty balanced way of implementing the payment system. How would your AI commander deal with these criteria?

I have no clue. Can the AI pilot be programmed to only move at X speed?

[PhantomDG1]

Hmmm ? ...

Point 1 - Pre scripted stations ?

Ok I think that could work. But that only gives us 4 major destinations (assuming a start at Argon prime, you then have Paranid, Split, Teladi, Born)
Do we then work our way there using the max 3 sectors at a time method ? This would flesh out the game time ! Also you don't have to move toward just one destination at a time.
(you could make a couple of moves towards Paranid prime, then decide to start building your routes to Boron !

Point 2 - Using a modified TP for start ?

Yep, that'd be cool. (I'm not the one making the ships so not fair of me to say yes/no)
But yes in theory it would be great !
(we need to work out how many passengers/food/wares can be stored on a 1000 payload TP)
Having mulitple class of ships would be fantastic... A TP to start ! M6 for middle class (eg modified Centaur) Then the Fhlostons for the Flagship class ! Needs to be 'more' than 10 mil though !
(a decent M6 costs about 9 mil ! so an M1 class should be at least 50 mil)

Point 3 - Routes / Scripts ?

I thought we (the player) was going to decide the routes? If we just tell the ship to go from A - B then thats all it will do !
I personally think 'Split Fire' is a very scenic sector ! others may prefer 'red Light'
By placing a port/hub every 3 sectors it would allow the player to choose their own routes, would keep the calculations to only ever working on a base 3 level. Any point in the galaxy could still be reached using any route the individual player wishes?

After all a ships captain isn't just told to 'go sail round the world.' He's given a precise route and schedule to follow ! We want our captains to follow our instructions, not run wildly like a UT...lol

We need to be carefull not to add too many scripts when we dont need to !
Players may want to add scripts to their games anyway, whether we have them already / or not !


So, in brief... ( IMO )

Point 1 - Pre-scripted stations / Destinations - good
Point 2 - Mulitple ship classes (build an empire) - good
Point 3 - AI route decisions ??? - we need to be carefull !
(A lot of the game will be done by the AI captains. We need to make sure the player still feels like they are in control of their game and not just an outsider watching it unfold before them)


I think its good that we all seem to be heading in the same direction. Most of the major ideas seem to be along the same lines ! At this rate it won't be long before we have a definitive outline of just how the finished MOD will look and play !

(V1.0 at least )


Phantom

[Squelch]

I have no clue. Can the AI pilot be programmed to only move at X speed?

I wish that was possible. It would be such a useful command to have. The workaround would be to use micro waypoints within sectors, but that involves a lot more.

Phantom - I hear you on keeping the script count low, but I'm not sure you appreciate what AStar can do.

It is, in modified form, used in commercial trader to avoid areas of conflict. The player will still retain control of the destination, but the precise route is chosen depending on the cost in distance and danger to the ship. With strong enemy avoidance, ordering a ship to travel from Scale Plate Green to Eighteen Billion, will go the long way around. The micromanagement will be taken off of the player, and the AI commander would behave semi inteligently.

I guess I just nailed my colours to the mast on that one.

[PhantomDG1]

Squelch wrote...

I guess I just nailed my colours to the mast on that one.

Not at all Squelch. This is/will be a community MOD. If the majority want to go left, then left we shall go ! !

I have to admit I have never used the MOD in question. I'm just personally against anything that takes control away from the player. I'm all for up-grading the AI/AL to be as competitive as possible and to have as many variables thrown into the mix
(just as long as these challenge / test / excite the player)

I suppose I may be looking at it too black and white ! But..

If I want a captain to fly from England to Germany then I want him to fly from England to Germany, not go via Paris, Brussels, Rome and Prague first ! ...lol

Anyway...
Firstly, we ( the player) should be choosing safe / fun routes for our passengers, not sending them into pirate sectors !

Second, If our cruises never encounter any kind of trouble then we have lost the need for protection and lose the fun aspect of conflict/combat !

But as I said this is maybe more a case of IMO ! We are trying to ceate for the masses, and what the masses want, they shall get !


Phantom

PS I'll install that script you mentioned, you never know I may change my mind...lol


Thanks

[PhantomDG1]

This is s rough breakdown of what sort of calculations we need to be making for each cruise / sector -

Standard Fares –

1 Passenger consumes X amount of wares in each sector ( variable X)

X = 1 meatsteak, 1 Chelt, 1 Stolt spice, 1 Ecell = eg Total 117 credits

1 Passenger pays 500 credits per sector for travel (variable A)

Crew wages (variable cost using Cycrows capital crews script) per sector = B (variable B)
eg 270 credits


Calculation for that sector = Variable C

A – ( X + B ) = C

C = 117 credits profit

A is multiplied by numbers of passengers boarding
X / B are multiplied by numbers of wares brought by player
This should give a true sector calculation of C


Fares once ‘Gambling license’ brought –

Variable A = A+25%

Variable X = X + cost of 1 space fuel + 1 space weed


I know matches is already looking into doing the math, but if anybody can think of anything else we need to add (or change) then please say !

(my figures were merely for example / not actual game prices )


Phantom

[KanineLupus]

The Liner will probably have to be a TL/M1/M2 since I don't believe ships can dock with a TP. I know for a fact ships can not dock with a TS.

Firstly, ships can indeed dock with a TP, if the appropriated modifications are made ...there is absolutely nothing hardcoded to prevent it. Also, why not use a custom ship class instead of trying to fit of the existing ones to your ship. It wouls just be a case of either directly modifying the ES 440001 file, or whipping up a new t-file for the job. I was actually surprised you didn't do that for your mini-carriers.

Oh, was browsing a CG site and came across a possible base-idea for your pods ...might be well suited to your needs.

[ external image ]

*edit* Yes AI ships can be set to fly at a set speed (or at least a a max number of engine tunings they can have). Not sure exactly what the process is via the script editor, but easy enough via the Jobs.txt file - have a look on the 'weapons and equipment' tab

[Flybye]

Point 1 - Pre scripted stations ?

Ok I think that could work. But that only gives us 4 major destinations (assuming a start at Argon prime, you then have Paranid, Split, Teladi, Born)
Do we then work our way there using the max 3 sectors at a time method? This would flesh out the game time ! Also you don't have to move toward just one destination at a time.
(you could make a couple of moves towards Paranid prime, then decide to start building your routes to Boron !

Max 3 sectors at a time? Naaa. Why?

We could start with 3 Docks. Argon Prime (starting spot), Family Whi, and Trinity Santum (or any sector under it) There is more than one way to get to them, and the user can slowly discover the methods that attrack more money. God can create one later on on the far right of the universe, and it is up to the player to find them. Of course, the player could always buy docks and plant them around.

Point 2 - Using a modified TP for start ?

Yep, that'd be cool. (I'm not the one making the ships so not fair of me to say yes/no)
But yes in theory it would be great !
(we need to work out how many passengers/food/wares can be stored on a 1000 payload TP)
Having mulitple class of ships would be fantastic... A TP to start ! M6 for middle class (eg modified Centaur) Then the Fhlostons for the Flagship class ! Needs to be 'more' than 10 mil though !
(a decent M6 costs about 9 mil ! so an M1 class should be at least 50 mil)

Modified TP is no big deal. I could always do some simple editing to make it look different than the curreny TP. And Modifying the specs takes less than a minute

Standard looking TP to start, M6 Goner ship as a mid-ship (I think it looks more interesting than the Centaur ), and finally the Fhloston

You're right. Fhlostons are going to have to be a lot more expensive. We should consider the 40-60m range.

Point 3 - Routes / Scripts ?

I thought we (the player) was going to decide the routes?

What if the scripts were setup like the Sector Patrol command? And that is to select several sectors, including the final destination sector where the AI will know where to dock.

By placing a port/hub every 3 sectors it would allow the player to choose their own routes, would keep the calculations to only ever working on a base 3 level. Any point in the galaxy could still be reached using any route the individual player wishes?

Every 3 sectors is a bit too close I think.
Or MAYBE we could start with 2. Kingdom End and CloudBase SE. Keep it all in safe sectors for now. Or maybe just go with my suggestion at the beginning of this reply

...We need to be carefull not to add too many scripts when we dont need to !
Players may want to add scripts to their games anyway, whether we have them already / or not !

It would be nice to only have 1 script, but that is up to the scripters and what is/is not possible.

.....(V1.0 at least )

All we currently have is my ship and a few of Matches' calculations!
This thing is currently at Alpha v.001!
Unless someone has been doing some coding that we don't know about

Firstly, ships can indeed dock with a TP, if the appropriated modifications are made ...there is absolutely nothing hardcoded to prevent it.

If that's the case, then I may experiment with it later on.
I'm scared of using class TP on the Fhloston, though. This ship is easily going to be the size of a TL and I'd hate to see what happens if someone tried to dock it at a standard station.

Also, why not use a custom ship class instead of trying to fit of the existing ones to your ship. It wouls just be a case of either directly modifying the ES 440001 file, or whipping up a new t-file for the job. I was actually surprised you didn't do that for your mini-carriers.

I didn't know how to. I still don't know how to LOL.
If I DO end up creating a class for it, I'll call it the CL (Cruise Liner)

I've read 2 conflicting reports here. We need confirmation that the AI can be scripted to use a ship at a certain speed regardless of what tunnings are the max speed the ship is capable of. This can help in knowing how to properly setuo scripts in the future. (I'm assuming)

On a side note, every time I look at our ship, The Diva starts singing in my head

[KanineLupus]

OK - firstly I'll better explain the setting of max speed for AI ships. I don't think you can actually set an exact max speed (ie, max speed = 60km), but specifying the max engine tunings, either via script or jobs.txt has the same effect. You have to remember that AI ships will not go and purchase extra engine tunings (or any other upgrade) unless they are commanded to (either directly or via an AL-type script).

Now, to add a new ship class, firstly open the X3 editor and open the text resource editor - not the regular txt editor ...locate and open the 440001 file. Ship class ID's are listed in 'page' 1263. You can either add a new class or make use of one of the many listed there already (some I think are unused in X3) - just be sure to note down the ID number you're using.

Important - save and close the editor then re-load ....this will load up the new information you added to the 4440001 file. Open TShips and add the ID you just noted in the 'class' description setting ....there you have your new ship class

As mentioned above, you could just as easilly add the ship class via a new T-file, but as you are seeming to be working on a sizable mod, it's just as easy to mod the 440001 file and include that in your mod.

Oh by the way, were 'pods' anything like what you had in mind??

[B-O'F]

Hi,

Do you know that ship variant 9 is type 'Luxury Cruiser' ?

I am currently flying my LX Luxury Cruiser, and have been for a long time....

Also that there are a lot of wares such as:-

Water
Luxury Foodstuffs
Spacefly Eggs
Fish
Meat
Vegetable
Fruit

Passengers
Very Important Passengers

Waste
Scrap
Garbage

All these wares are only costed at 4Cr each, but I am sure that you can provide the correct mark-up...

Boron - Ol Fh'art

[PhantomDG1]

Flybye wrote...

What if the scripts were setup like the Sector Patrol command? And that is to select several sectors, including the final destination sector where the AI will know where to dock.

Thats exactly what I had in mind. The player would already have a 'start point' (Argon prime for example sake) They would then place their first hub/turnaround in Power Circle.
You/player would command the ship to set sail (once all loading has been done) and the ship would fly to the Power ccircle hub, Dock - Turnaround- return to base !

(the reason I don't think we should make the initial hubs too far away is boredom ! Think how long it takes to fly to Paranid prime and back ! Even worse when we are limiting ship speed to say even 100ms !
At the start when the player has only 1 ship they would be sat for hours with nothing to do but wait for the ship to return ! )

Going back to my previous statement. Once the player had made a few of the smaller routes he should have made enough money to buy some extras.
The player would then have some options -
If enough he could buy a new hub and extend the first route, to say 'Three worlds' now the ship would depart- fly to power circle- dock- depart- fly to 'Three worlds' (then make the return journey)

Or...

He could but a second ship and have two vessels making the run to Power circle ! (2x ships = 2x profits)

Or...

If he waited a little longer before expanding he could buy another ship 'and' hub and begin a whole new route ! This one heading south to... Red Light !


And so we have the beginings of an empire ! Every time the player has earned enough credits he would have a list of options..

More ships, more hubs, new routes, (eventually BIGGER ships / Gambling license)


Phantom

[PhantomDG1]

Hi B-O'F

Glad to have you on board (no pun intended ). Thanks for your input.

In addition to my previous thread... I recall someone mentioning having the capital sectors a sort of goal destinations to reach.

That'd definately work in conjunction with my idea. If the players start point was a fairly remote sector then he could build his routes heading towards the nearest capital sector. Once he has placed a Hub/turnaround in that sector he is given a small bonus from that race. (50,000 creds)

And only when he has reached a capital..

Is he allowed to buy the gambling license for that race.


Phantom

[PhantomDG1]

Flybye wrote...

I guess the real problem here is.....I'm anal

Well guess you ain't the only one !

I just timed a run from Argon shipyard (Argon prime) to Silicon mine (Power cirlce)

Time - 28min 35.6 sec (one way !)

Ship used was the express which worked out nice as the full kitted version has a top speed of exactly 100ms

Round journey time - 56min 11.2 sec

Admittedly I was sat in the ship for this time ! where as the player may choose to send the ship auto-pilot and use his time for other stuff like doing a bit of fund raising/trading.
But.. we definately need to keep an eye on the time for each journey !

Just imagine how long a round trip journey to Paranid prime would take !


Phantom

[Flybye]

OK - firstly I'll better explain the setting of max speed for AI ships. I don't think you can actually set an exact max speed (ie, max speed = 60km), but specifying the max engine tunings, either ....

I don't think we will want to do it this way because this is also a ship the player may occasionally fly. What I'm referring to was the AI that takes command of the ship when you command your ship to fly to a destination. Unless what you are referring to is if the ship has 5 engine tunings, when you command your ship to reach a destination, the AI would only use 1 engine tunning.

Now, to add a new ship class, firstly open the X3 editor and open the text resource editor - not the regular txt editor ...locate and open the 440001 file. Ship class ID's are listed in 'page' 1263. You can either add a new class or make use of one of the many listed there already (some I think are unused in X3) - just be sure to note down the ID number you're using.

Thanks! I'll be sure to play with it.
A custom Ship Class would not have any limitations like the TS class has, right?

Oh by the way, were 'pods' anything like what you had in mind??

Oops. Forgot to say Thanks Yeah, they are rather similiar, and will keep them in mind when that stage comes.

...Also that there are a lot of wares such as:-

Water
Luxury Foodstuffs
Spacefly Eggs
Fish
Meat
Vegetable
Fruit

Passengers
Very Important Passengers

Waste
Scrap
Garbage

Thanks! Will list those for possibilities. And writing the script requiring us not only to load the ship with food stuff and passengers, but to also need to dispose of waste & garbage will add a further amount of detail to the mod


@PhantomDG1
I've only been thinking of one-way trips LOL. Yeah, it would make sense to have to have docks a lot closer in the beginning then for the full round trips. Once we return to the originating port, we can have something happen like:

1) Incoming Message
2) At this Dock:
___a) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #2
____x Boron, x Teladi, x Split, x Argon, x Terrans, x Paranid.
____You will require:
_______x fruits
_______x meats
_______x Beafsteaks
_______and so fourth

___b) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #3
____x Boron, x Teladi, x Split, x Argon, x Terrans, x Paranid.
____You will require:
_______x fruits
_______x meats
_______x Beafsteaks
_______and so fourth
3) At Dock #2
___a) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #1
___b) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #3
3) At Dock #3
___a) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #1
___b) xxx passengers would like to go to Dock #2
You get the idea

So the player will make sure the ship is loaded with it, and the player will also need to make sure he disposes of any garbage the script will generate in the ship. Of course, you need to fly to another port if you want pick up those people. Travel requirements will be given for each trip so the customer knows what he has to load the ship with.

Gambling, Weed & Booze license should be attainable only when you reach a certain Notor level

Bonuses:
I was reading through the tour bus text, and noticed it gives a bonus if we pass through space flies. We can script in random space fly colonies. Heck, if we can capture a few space flies, we can store them in the ship, and release them while on the cruise!!

Lets make up some wares!
Post Cards, souvenirs, stuffed animals, magazines, condoms (we sell weed, why not other real life objects ), and anything we can come up with.

And have a station in each primary sector that sells these wares. The player will not know which wares sell for what amount of money. He will have to experiement. Wares should be at a fixed selling price in the ship, and the selling of each ware random.

Waste
Waste must be removed from the ship, and it automatically accumulates.
Waste must be transferred to the Docking station, and if the waste sits there for x amount of time, the player will be charged until he tranfers the waste to a waste disposal facility.

Stations (custom or not)
Cruise ship docking station
1 station at each primary sector carrying the "souvenir" type wares
1 station at each primary sector to dispose of waste

[Squelch]

Ha ha!

Spaceflies/doves released with ticker tape and streamers when leaving the dock LOL.

B-O'F - Good call. Those unused wares would be really good to include. I like the sound of having to manage input/output. Ship variant 9 "Luxury Cruiser" sounds just the ticket for the Fhloston Paradise.

KanineLupus - the fiddling of engine tunings is one way of adjusting the top speed I know, but a bit of a kludge for a workaround. We need, not only for this project, but in general, a method of setting the throttle on ships.

Phantom - Journey times will be different for AI OOS. Collision detection is ignored so a trip across Ore Belt would be vastly different.

[PhantomDG1]

Flybye wrote...

And once you select which one want, another incoming message saying "You will require x amount of fruits, food stuff, etc." So the player will make sure the ship is loaded with it, and the player will also need to make sure he disposes of any garbage the script will generate in the ship. Of course, you need to fly to another port if you want pick up those people.

Yep sure like it !
Would make sense to store as much as possible in each port/hub then the ships could just set sail once passengers have boarded !

Flybye wrote...

incoming message saying "You will require x amount of fruits, food stuff, etc."

Yeah and you would get that message listing any shortages that would stop the cruise from starting.

That way the player would have an additional two goals-
1. to make sure his hubs are always fully stocked
2. to bloody well hurry up and get any shortages...lol

Engine speeds / tunnings ? ? ?

Maybe I'm missing the point but do we need to mess around with these? As Flybye is making the custom ships couldn't we just decide beforehand what would be a good average speed for the ships to travel at?

If we just added the option for 2/3 tunnings then performance/time/speeds would pretty well always be similar !
(allowing the player to concentrate on the route building / wares / up-grading of ships)

After all the overall object of the MOD is not to see how fast we can travel from A-B !
But.. to get the 'Biggest' ship, the 'Most' passengers to travel from A-B-C... (and make the most profits)


IMO I'd rather have a magnificent fleet of 9 Fhlostons travelling 20 sectors at 80ms than two dozen TP's flying short trips at 120ms !

Lets face it with the recent addition of XFP there must be well over 200 sectors now ! Just imagine a fleet of 12-15 Fhlostons each with their own routes. That would mean 12-15 main hubs / 70+ turnarounds / at least 1 TS to supply each main hub !
Then there are the matters of supplying wingmen/fighters. Crews for each ship. Buying gambling licenses. And further increasing your cruise routes amd fleet ! ! !


Phantom

@Flybye, any updated pics of the ships yet dude ?

[Flybye]

Hehe...ok...we seem to be discussing the ship's speed & engine tunings more than we have to.

Simple: (all numbers are examples)
1) Ship is capable of 150m/s
2) When I command my ship to go from one port to another, I want the ship to fly itself at a cruising speed of 75m/s
3) Of course, if I fly the ship myself, I can fly it at whatever speed I choose.

I don't care how the script does it (if its posible), I just want the ship to cruise at 75m/s when I tell it to go from Point A to Point B.
Or better yet, if the script allows us to pick the sectors we want the ship to pass through, a 2nd message can ask us what we want the cruising speed to be.

@Flybye, any updated pics of the ships yet dude?

Naa. Been doing lots of studying. But I've been playing with the hull a few hours every night. I've been tweaking it so the front angled edge looks more and more like the ship, and I've been seeking a little bit of extra help off of a CG site So I've been doing lots of reading and tweaking.

If I were to show you what my first attempt looks like, your face would probably turn inside out from the horror LOL. Remember this is my first attempt at building a ship from scratch, and so I'm doing lots of reading in order to make sure I make good use of the tools to get the shapes just right. Been also exploring the possibilities of making my own texture.
Plus I've been busy editing this thread