The X4 internet thread (no not another silly poll)

[Nanook]

....
I guess in the end, I'm just arguing for the choice to play via LAN (or general internet access, if you're a masochist) with a small number of friends. It was previously mentioned that Warcrafts 1/2/3 were nothing like WoW, but that isn't exactly the comparison which should be drawn. Warcraft 1/2/3 were multiplayer games, just not massively so. And I'd like the same option for X, because a human is a much better adversary and makes you have to really think about what you're doing so much more than a computer ever can.....

Warcraft games, and their ilk, are really no comparison. A complete WC game can easily be played in one setting. How do you do that in X? What's your victory conditions? Think how much you can really accomplish in one night's X3 playing, and ask yourself if that's really sufficient in a multiplayer environment. X games are long-term affairs, not one-night stands. Are the whole group of you and your friends really going to commit that much time?

"Well", you say, "Freelancer did something similar". Yes, BUT, you did not own anything more than just the one ship in Freelancer. There were no empires to build. When you logged off, your ship was safe. The problem that people don't understand about turning X into a LAN game, is that it couldn't possibly play anything like the SP game. So, in effect, Egosoft would have to build two different games with two totally different goals. And therein lies the rub. Either it takes twice as long to come out, with all the problems that creates, or you have two half-baked games instead of one fully-cooked one. Personally, I don't like my games raw.

[htmlord]

@Nanook:

Warcraft games, and their ilk, are really no comparison. A complete WC game can easily be played in one setting. How do you do that in X? What's your victory conditions? Think how much you can really accomplish in one night's X3 playing, and ask yourself if that's really sufficient in a multiplayer environment. X games are long-term affairs, not one-night stands. Are the whole group of you and your friends really going to commit that much time?

I couldn't agree with you more. In mentioning that point, I was also saying that trying to draw a parallel between X3 and X-LAN or XO and War1/2/3 and WoW is pointless, because the comparison is simply not the same. I agree with you wholeheartedly here. My point, though, is not to change X at all. Simply make it, as it is, accessible to a LAN multiplayer audience. I would ask that the game be designed for single player, as you most ardently do as well, however, I would also ask that the code support multiplayer in principle. The gametype does not have to change at all, nor do there have to be goals installed into the game, I just want the option to putz around with my friends if I so choose to do so. Maybe we start a new LAN game and each script in a small fleet and battle it out. Maybe we see who can make the most money in 2 hours. It doesn't matter. Just like in vanilla X, the game doesn't set the goals, the player does, only in this case, instead of player its players.

And no... I wouldn't mention Freelancer, thanks. The best part about X in comparison is the scale. Being restricted to one ship would just.. not be X. And so I wouldn't ask for anything at all different in the gametype, just that it be there. For all I care, Egosoft could release the multiplayer "mod" as an unsupported addon just so they wouldn't be responsible for it or have to answer questions about such and such broken part of the game. I just would like to be able to, on my own terms, play a LAN game with my friends. You may not want to, or maybe the freedom of a sandbox-style game in a multiplayer atmosphere isn't for you, but just because you don't want it, does not mean that there aren't people who do.

On a side note, I fully admit that a fully functioning, fully featured, self-contained multiplayer version of X would be exactly the hassle and problems you are describing. However, I'm not asking for that. I'm only asking for the capacity to play the singleplayer X in a LAN environment. If you're as old school of a gamer as I think you are, you'll understand it this way: I'm suggesting something like the original Quake's multiplayer mode (initially, the single player levels where you could kill another player if he was connected to your server, or co-op through the story - though I'd be content to leave the co-op part out for simplicity's sake)

Essentially, I understand and am with you on most of your key points, but I don't think that you are quite following mine. I only want the capacity for LAN MP, not essentially a dedicated mode/gametype for it. Just the capacity to play over a LAN in the completely normal single player format X is known for. Let the players set the goals. It's worked well in X. Why not in X-LAN?

[Cycrow]

i would like some limited lan multiplayer, but its very unlikly to happen, as i know the ammount of work that would be required to program multiplayer compatability into a game that wasn't designed for it from the ground up.

it required a complete remake of the game engine before you even to begin to add the multiplayer code into the game.

but thats the only way to get a multiplayer game without ruining what is X, and online version will definatly not be the same game

[Khaak_Hammer]

i would like some limited lan multiplayer, but its very unlikly to happen, as i know the ammount of work that would be required to program multiplayer compatability into a game that wasn't designed for it from the ground up.

it required a complete remake of the game engine before you even to begin to add the multiplayer code into the game.

but thats the only way to get a multiplayer game without ruining what is X, and online version will definatly not be the same game

my thoughts exactly, X4 should have a LAN option but should be the same game in as many ways as possable but naturally you CANT DO THAT with a MP X4 so we need to look at it in a sensible way, MP with X4 just WONT WORK you'll just get a FL clone and while that wasent a bad game it's still not X3.

[esd]

X4 should have a LAN option

Except that would provide no additional income for Egosoft, and would require a massive outlay of money.

Fancy chipping in a few hundred thousand pounds to finance it? If so, you may just get it...

[Khaak_Hammer]

why are you always so negative?

[CBJ]

He's not being negative, he's pointing out why your suggestion may not be viable. No amount of optimism or "being positive" changes the financial realities.

[Rikaelus]

Single player.
X definately has the potential for being multiplayer someday, but I'd rather see that optional like with Freelancer. In the meantime there's still a lot of untapped potential in the single-player I'd like to see exploited.

[Cycrow]

He's not being negative, he's pointing out why your suggestion may not be viable. No amount of optimism or "being positive" changes the financial realities.

unless some rich person is so optimistic about it they donate several million to get a multiplayer version

[Corbzy]

He's not being negative, he's pointing out why your suggestion may not be viable. No amount of optimism or "being positive" changes the financial realities.

too true, at the end of the day, they are a business, and although they are out to satisfy our needs and wants they also are out there to make money, MP would cost thousands, and since there are many many of us out there (including myself) that do not wish the X series to become MP, it would not be in their interests to do so.

[Khaak_Hammer]

Just what is it about X that makes it so hard to MP?

[The_Abyss]

Just what is it about X that makes it so hard to MP?

There is nothing difficult in itself to make an X game online. What is hugely difficult (as I hinted before at the start of the 3rd page) is to make an EXISTING X game or a game based on existing structures into multiplayer.

The reasons for this have already been covered extensively, namely the enormous additional investment required without any security of additional income - a publisher won't even bother laughing at this proposal before hanging up the telephone.

X3 and it's predecessors were not designed to be multiplayer, and therefore all aspects of the design simply do not fit, from SETA to balancing of combat to balacing the economy and player empires to expanding the universe to increase space.

When I commented (and not in a negative way) that many current X players do not appreciate what it would take to put the game into a viable online proposition, I meant that CONVERTING an X game to online would be ugly and most likely to annoy both multi and single players alike. Building a new X game with the sole purpose of online play is however a completely different proposition, and do make it work and standout from the crwod, to break new ground in the genre, the design, concept and gameplay would likely have to be very different from what most are used to and have thought of.

[sid1034]

I definitely think that X4 should be single player. I don't have the time to commit to playing a MMORPG, and X4 if it was online would be the most complex MMORGP I can think of. But what I think would be neat is the ability to have online battles. You can spend your time in the single player universe building your empire, and then if you want you could challenge other players in online skirmishes. It would be awesome to see huge fleets of capital ships duking it out both sides controlled by humans. There would be some details to work out such as making sure each side was using the same mods or whether or not damage and losses in fleet battles stayed when you went back in game. Overall though I think it would be a fun addition.

[SLeeZeCoRe]

For a start, they don't need another engine to use, because imho this one makes things pretty enough and for those of us that aren't bill gates or the sultan of brunai, then i doubt anyone will have a PC capable of anything faster

[fiksal]

by muilti screen I mean two or more computers on a single computer playing togeater

Two players on the same PC?
That'd be a big strain on CPU... and GPU... and probably not workable with one mouse and keyboard.

The poll options aren't mutually exclusive. It could be SP or MP, and a console game at the same time.

Nope they are not,...

I voted Multiplayer.
Although for me, X4 still gotta have SP (shouldnt be MP only); and I am not interested in MMO...

Now this thread is only useuful when someone takes these votes (or any other similiar polls) and goes to DevNet

[Nanook]

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Now this thread is only useuful when someone takes these votes (or any other similiar polls) and goes to DevNet

Which won't make one iota of difference. The devs have stated over and over again, that a future MMO version is the only multiplayer they would consider doing. As pointed out by many others, there simply is no profitsss in adding any other type of MP to this type of game. But, as they say, "hope springs eternal".

[SLeeZeCoRe]

Not many mentions about a plot?

Ie: they need to tidy up the terran/argon connection, why won't earth be friends with their lost brethen? Whats going on about the Khaak, they're still alive.

Need more sohnen explainations, and What happened to those Xenon Central computer things that on the verge of sentience?




I just like loose ends tidied

[fiksal]

....
Now this thread is only useuful when someone takes these votes (or any other similiar polls) and goes to DevNet

Which won't make one iota of difference. The devs have stated over and over again, that a future MMO version is the only multiplayer they would consider doing.

yep, so technically, the poll is a bit silly

[Khaak_Hammer]

....
Now this thread is only useuful when someone takes these votes (or any other similiar polls) and goes to DevNet

Which won't make one iota of difference. The devs have stated over and over again, that a future MMO version is the only multiplayer they would consider doing.

yep, so technically, the poll is a bit silly

SETA would have to go diffenatly but what else would have to change?

Factorys would have to change as well as the plot missions but to make X4 with an MP option just what would have to change?

[CBJ]

...to make X4 with an MP option just what would have to change?

Well, let's see.

No SETA means travel times would increase, so to compensate, either flight speed would have to increase or distances would have to be reduced. Either would mean major changes to the AI flight model.

Either of those would mean that the actual in-game flight times between locations would decrease drastically, which would have a massive effect on the game economy. That, combined with there being more than one player in the game universe, would mean a complete economy re-engineering would be required.

Those are just two examples; there are plenty more, which between them affect virtually every aspect of the game.