[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[paulwheeler]

Otas does not have a research station as all their ships are experimental/prototype, so you could say the main Otas shipyard is their research station.

Each race has one corporate research station. For the Argon its Jonferco.

[A5PECT]

Does each race have its own weapons dealer? I've explored a lot of the universe but I've only found the Terracorp one.

[malanthor]

Thank you for the answer Paul, it was not what i wanted to hear but thanks nonethless. My poor Notus is no longer the top dog among the m3's then. <sheds a tear> even the ugly prototype blastclaw is better. <shakes fist at the heavens> all pirates should taste cold vacum if you ask me.

So hmm, if Otas dont have any prototypes or special or whatnot version dont that mean that they wont have a single best ship in any category? I have been reading the list with ship stats you so graciously provided, what i am basing my conclusions on. I thought Otas was supposed to be the most technologically advanced megacorp out there, specializing in high tech gadgets and they rank as first in no ship class. <sheds a few more tears>

[Sn4kemaster]

Thank you for the answer Paul, it was not what i wanted to hear but thanks nonethless. My poor Notus is no longer the top dog among the m3's then. <sheds a tear> even the ugly prototype blastclaw is better. <shakes fist at the heavens> all pirates should taste cold vacum if you ask me.

So hmm, if Otas dont have any prototypes or special or whatnot version dont that mean that they wont have a single best ship in any category? I have been reading the list with ship stats you so graciously provided, what i am basing my conclusions on. I thought Otas was supposed to be the most technologically advanced megacorp out there, specializing in high tech gadgets and they rank as first in no ship class. <sheds a few more tears>

I think generally OTAS ships tend to be balanced a little better than the standard Argon version....ie the Venti aces Nova Raider in nearly all areas.

Although i agree with Manathor that the Notus maybe needs something more, maybe another shield slot (6x25) as its a little weak compared to the say the Eclipse and looking at the stats on the Pirate Blastclaw Prototype it does seem a little OTT for a bunch of pirates, they shouldn't have better equipment than OTAS, maybe the Argon Navy but not OTAS.

[malanthor]

Yeah well, it is not weak in any way, i just found it a tad slow and ungainly, while others like the prototype skate and the prototype blastclaw pretty much outperforms it with ease, then there is the terran and atf vessels.. the new larger size dont help it either.

I guess i was just used to it beeing in the top 3. Hehe. And we all have our favorites. I must say that i am generally well pleased with the balance in this mod. Not complaining really, just.. beeing bratty i guess.

One more question: if i want to add a ship myself, would this in any way conflict with this mod or the shipyard pack? Would i need to edit any special files or just simply add it with cycrows lite, and maybe edit it with cloakshadows editor?

[malanthor]

Yeah well, it is not weak in any way, i just found it a tad slow and ungainly, while others like the prototype skate and the prototype blastclaw pretty much outperforms it with ease, then there is the terran and atf vessels.. the new larger size dont help it either.

I guess i was just used to it beeing in the top 3. Hehe. And we all have our favorites. I must say that i am generally well pleased with the balance in this mod. Not complaining really, just.. beeing bratty i guess.

One more question: if i want to add a ship myself, would this in any way conflict with this mod or the shipyard pack? Would i need to edit any special files or just simply add it with cycrows lite, and maybe edit it with cloakshadows editor?

[A5PECT]

The Blastclaw Prototype is so powerful because it's only sold at one (randomly placed) location in the universe, and they run for 10 million credits per ship.

The Notus is still insanely powerful, and it is much easier to acquire than a BP.

[malanthor]

So if only one dirty terrorist group well hidden away in one remote location in this world decides to build a figther plane that plane will soon outclass the high tech stuff of the allied nations?
I rather think it would not fly very well at all. <grins>

I do get your point hovewer, hehe, that was why i originally asked if Otas had any prototype ships, because i wanted to go looking for them.

[paulwheeler]

The Blastclaw is balanced as a very good ship as almost 90% of the time its going to be attacking you. I want to give the player a few challenges. Since the only way to aquire one is either befriend the pirates (hard) or capture one, I thought it was worth doing.

The Notus is a already a fairly powerful ship. It may not quite have the shielding of the Eclipse, but it is faster.

In the XRM, Otas ships will have even more uniqueness, being the only ships that are able to mount a small selection of other races weapons.

You never know... an Otas research station may make an appearance in the XRM... I'll think about it.



RE: Weapons dealers - each race has one corporate owned weapons dealer. They are randomly placed, so are not always easy to find.

In the XRM there will be a few more and their positions will be fixed.



RE: Adding a new ship - the new ship will need to be added to the SRM TShips. Simply putting a new ship mod in will break the SRM.

[malanthor]

Thanks for that, and as for OTAS research station i say yes please. Maybe they wouldent have that many prototypes lying around but i am sure they have some secret project underway, if the other corps get such a station i definitly think otas should too. Imo that is, its your call offcource, i am just voicing my oppinion.

I like the sound of race specific weapons, will add more flavour to each race. Looking forward to the XRM, as it combines two mods i will always want.
Any idea when we will see it making its first appearance? I am doutbful as to if i should start a new game with the 1.11b or wait for 1.12 OR wait for XRM, what do you think?

[Mizuchi]

An Otas research station may make an appearance in the XRM

I don't really see the point, given that OTAS are pretty much the Stark Industries of the X3TC Universe as it is already.

As you pointed out, their (now big) shipyard is pretty much their research base.

[malanthor]

There are no point in the other corporations having remote research and construction labs around in the galaxy either then? The entire sector where Otas first built its HQ and started its shipbuilding was at first a really secret project with super tight security, now that place is not exactly a secret project anylonger, the argon goverment and other entrepeneurs have stations and factories there and its open for all. So why would not Otas construct a somewhat secret far off place where they could develop new stuff, similiar to what they allready did once before??
You have to remember that all the other facilities are spread far off, mostly located in remote places, why not just build a shipyard next to their HQ's? Only possibly reason is secrecy and privacy and maybe unhindered access to trade. Well the same reasons those other races have also aply to otas.. there are absolutly no reason that applies to them that would not also apply to Otas imo.

[Sn4kemaster]

An Otas research station may make an appearance in the XRM

I don't really see the point, given that OTAS are pretty much the Stark Industries of the X3TC Universe as it is already.

As you pointed out, their (now big) shipyard is pretty much their research base.

Tend to agree with Muzuci.

And its funny i thought as OTAS as Stark Industries too.....i wonder if the Company Chairman of OTAS flies around the X universe in a special metal suit?

In fact Paul could you look into that for the XRM? it could be fast, agile, with built in PRG's, tractor beam, missiles (nukes) .......actually be able to fit every commonwealth weapon out their for attachments

Unless its a really really really secret base for R and D in some remote unknown sector.......for really secret stuff (like that suit)

Ohh and i like the sound of ''now'' big shipyard....XRM extra content anychance?

[Mizuchi]

There are no point in the other corporations having remote research and construction labs around in the galaxy either then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy#Straw_man.

XRM extra content anychance?

Something like that, but maybe not what you're thinking.

In fact Paul could you look into that for the XRM?

The best part about that is while I know you're not serious, you could totally copy the Advanced Spacesuit entry in Tships and turn it into exactly that kind of "ship".

Arm-mounted Fusion Beam Cannon and all. :3

[paulwheeler]

Who says a research station has to sell ships? Perhaps the Otas research base sells other wares....

XRM is coming along nicely and I am going to stick my neck out and say it should be done in two to three weeks.

I'm going to outline all the new stuff below:

Spoiler

Show

made you look!


Its the old ones that are the best...

[malanthor]

Well for one it wasnt a fallacy, its so cheesy when someone drags some word up from the wikipedia uses it and pretends to understand it.
But ill take it as a joke and smile and laugh abouth it, and then maybe you understand it after all and were just pretending that it applied here. <dances and smiles to show he didnt take offence>

Its cool in any case, and as paul said, who knows what they would sell. I am just thinking otas could use one of those hidden stations aswell. But its all up to Paul.

Good to hear abouth the timeline by the way! Looking forward to seeing what you have come up with.

[Mizuchi]

Its so cheesy when someone drags some word up from the wikipedia uses it and pretends to understand it.

I agree. Shame that wasn't the case here, but I'll let the thinly veiled insult slide all the same.

I'm going to outline all the new stuff below:

I totally didn't look. I resent the accusation! This implication is slander, sir!

[Mad_CatMk2]

paul, you're a terrible person for teasing us like that.
i'm gonna list the terrible things that will happen to you

Spoiler

Show

[malanthor]

Its been awhile since i played x3 but didnt you use to need otas rank to buy otas ships? Maybe im wrong and if so just forget i said anything.
I noticed that you needed Argon rank to buy from the otas shipyard now, may i ask what caused this change? Wouldent it make sense that you would need rank with the individual company to buy their special products?
I mean this in regards to the various companys research facilities where you can buy prototypes aswell.

If you come strolling up as mr x to the research facility of say terracorp i doubt they are going to let you buy anything even if you have a standing with the goverment. Hovewer if you have a good connection with the company maybe something can be arranged.

As it stands there is pretty no reason for the corporation ranks to even exist beyond fluff (which i like but still) because all they give you is some meazly rewards if you run ALOT of missions for them, which mostly is a pain since you cannot choose the missions imo. Actually beeing able to buy certain wares that can only be got from them would spice up the company ranks alot.

In Otas case, its easy. They have their ships which will be made accesible with either a pure Otas corp rank or a mix of Argon/Otas rank requirement, the others have their well hidden research centers with prototypes and other wares that having a certain rank with their company will allow you to buy.

Just an observation i made when playing, it just felt so useless working on the corporate missions when i could make alot more money dooing something different. What do you think? Wouldent this make leveling up the dreary corp ranks more profitable and fun if you have a nice carrot waiting for you at the certain stops along the way?

Edit: dont get me wrong here, i am not complaining, you have a great mod here and it will stay a great mod regardless of whether anything i suggest happens or not. I also know a modders time is limited, i used to do a little modding on my own so i really appreciate that you cant change everything based on what individuals want, its your mod and your vision that is beeing unfolded. Just wanted to make that clear so i didnt come off wrong.

[paulwheeler]

I have not made any changes to the way Otas operates in the game. You have always needed Argon rank to buy Otas ships. It is like this in vanilla. The Otas shipyard is Argon owned so is just the same as any other Argon shipyard.

Otas is not a proper race in the game so it cannot own things. The same goes for Jonferco, Atreus and all the other corporations.

The only way to require Otas rank to buy their ships would be to make Otas a fully fledged race like ATF is - but that would require a lot of game code rewrites. There would probably be issues with missions and also you could end up with a situation where Argon and Otas ships would start fighting as the game would see them as two distinct races. Also there aren't enough spare races to do this for every corporation.

Otas was an idea thought up by the XTM guys and ported into X3TC. Personally I think the corporations were a big opportunity for more interesting game play that was sadly under developed for TC.

You are right there is little reason for the corporation ranks. I guess you'll have to bring that one up with Egosoft...