[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[paulwheeler]

what about putting them right behind the gate?

That works till you enter the sector. Then the collision detection routine moves them too far away from the gate to intercept enemies coming through.

[Osiris454]

OWP's are much more effective when using Gazz's OOS combat rebalance script. It's not perfect, but at least they won't get hosed so easily.

Oh, is there a Terran OWP? In Tships there is the Gungir (spelling?) that has 12x2GJ shield gens and an impressive array of weapons. I would like to buy one but I don't remember seeing it ingame. If it is there and I'm just blind then please ignore my ramblings.

[Mizuchi]

The Longinus, Phalanx, and Gungnir are sold at USC Shipyards if you enable them in the SRM Configuration page.

[paulwheeler]

Actually only two of them are for sale. Cadius has never included a model for the Medium Terran OWP.

[garrry34]

just got playing with the new nagoya, that was fun, would you's be open to the suggestion of instead of the 2 four barrels at the front having 4 two barrels horizontally?

[A5PECT]

The Paranid Zeus and Odysseus Mk1's models' are misplaced relative to... whatever thingy it is that the AI targets when firing. The model seems to be off-center, so ships will shoot at the space in front of the hull, rather than the ship itself. It makes a lot of the shots miss. You can see it when you view one from an external view (F3), the camera is centered around that same spot, making the ship occupy the space "behind" where the game thinks it is.

...Dammit this is hard to explain.

[OOZ662]

The Paranid Zeus and Odysseus Mk1's models' are misplaced relative to... whatever thingy it is that the AI targets when firing.

The AI fires at turret hardpoints, so the turrets on the "wings" of their big saucery ships make them extremely hard to hit. The same occurs with the Xenon heavy capitals and is pretty much impossible to fix.

[A5PECT]

The AI fires at turret hardpoints, so the turrets on the "wings" of their big saucery ships make them extremely hard to hit. The same occurs with the Xenon heavy capitals and is pretty much impossible to fix.

Oh no, you're talking about the vanilla Paranid capital ships. I'm talking about the Mk1's (the one's that use the X2 models).

It's not that the guns are targeting the turrets, it's that the guns are targeting empty space.

[Osiris454]

The AI fires at turret hardpoints, so the turrets on the "wings" of their big saucery ships make them extremely hard to hit. The same occurs with the Xenon heavy capitals and is pretty much impossible to fix.

Oh no, you're talking about the vanilla Paranid capital ships. I'm talking about the Mk1's (the one's that use the X2 models).

It's not that the guns are targeting the turrets, it's that the guns are targeting empty space.

The ships aren't quite centered in the selection box. They are a bit farther back. Other AI ships aim for the center of the box, which is where the MK1 is only barely protruding into. Most shots just fly across the bow.

[HotSake]

So are they aiming for the center of the box or the turret dummies? Because I keep hearing different things, and I don't recall seeing a controlled study to determine which it really is.

[Mizuchi]

So are they aiming for the center of the box or the turret dummies?

Yes.




>:3

[A5PECT]

So are they aiming for the center of the box or the turret dummies? Because I keep hearing different things, and I don't recall seeing a controlled study to determine which it really is.

They shoot at whichever is closest. 90% of the time it's one of the turret dummies. But in the Odysseus/Zeus Mk1's case, the center of the selection box is in front of the entire ship, so the AI will end up targeting that most often.

I think.

I actually noticed that beam weapons don't go for turret dummies, though. They always shoot at the center of the target ship.

[paulwheeler]

If I recall correctly from doing lots of testing with the Q at the start of the SRM, what the turrets aim at depends on distance from the target.

I think up to about 4km the guns will aim for the centre of the ship or camera dummies, whichever is nearer, but over 4km they go for the nearest camera dummy only, and since camera dummys are often positioned a bit away from the ship..... Its a badly programmed method and should be the other way around really. Its probably been done to make sure that weapons fired from a distance sometimes miss, but its a bit of a hack job.

I am aware that the Zeus and Odysseus Mk Is are not in the centre of their scenes (neither is the Panther and thats in vanilla too!). This is how they are in Killerogs original mod. The issue with aiming is only really when they go for the centre of the scene and moving the model wont make much difference to distance shooting, only below 4km since over 4km guns will only aim at camera dummies.

Moving them is fairly straight forward, but time consuming, which is why I've not put it as a priority. However, I may see what I can do while I'm sorting out XRM. I can then just drop the new scene into the SRM too.

[A5PECT]

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[Sorkvild]

cool if you could describe the situation cant see much details though

[A5PECT]

I have three frigates attacking the Odysseus. They're all aiming for that point where the PPC rounds are intersecting, right in the center of the screen.

It's causing their shots to miss. A lot.

It's annoying because as you can see, the Odysseus is practically stationary. 90% of those shots should be connecting, but the computer keeps aiming for that empty space in front.

[Sorkvild]

Now I see what you mean. Ported X2 ships are dwarfish. One time I noticed the same situation and I was wondering, hell, why they are shooting in front of him. After seeing this I was more determined to dump all X2 from tships and then I stopped using them.

[djrygar]

I noticed one problem with changing ware class

since most hi-tech traders use M3 or TMs for their duties, they cannot buy/sell heavy weapons like Ion Cannon etc, as they cannot load it in their cargo

perhaps, TMs could be of XXL class? They are meant for military transports, so this would make sense


and another thing to consider
I already once mentioned, that it would make sense to make Cargo Life Support standard equipment in Huge ships (M7, M2, M1)

For two reasons:
1 - its logical huge ships are like small towns, right?
2 - it will prevent destroying it by equipment damage routines when ship is under attack. All those precious Codea pilots die immediatelly after ship's shields are down, because eqipment is damaged very fast

hell, I think I will do that for myself anyway

[paulwheeler]

I noticed one problem with changing ware class

since most hi-tech traders use M3 or TMs for their duties, they cannot buy/sell heavy weapons like Ion Cannon etc, as they cannot load it in their cargo

perhaps, TMs could be of XXL class? They are meant for military transports, so this would make sense


and another thing to consider
I already once mentioned, that it would make sense to make Cargo Life Support standard equipment in Huge ships (M7, M2, M1)

For two reasons:
1 - its logical huge ships are like small towns, right?
2 - it will prevent destroying it by equipment damage routines when ship is under attack. All those precious Codea pilots die immediatelly after ship's shields are down, because eqipment is damaged very fast

hell, I think I will do that for myself anyway

First point - a better option is to make these traders use superfreighters which are XXL compatible (giving TMs XXL is not something I want to do). I'll see what can be done in jobs to sort this. Perhaps its something Vkerinav can change in SRM jobs. Consider it done for XRM. Superfreighters wil be somewhat better defended in XRM anyway.


Second point - Another good call I think... should be relatively easy to implement. I'll put it in XRM and SRM if I do another release.

[paulwheeler]

Now I see what you mean. Ported X2 ships are dwarfish. One time I noticed the same situation and I was wondering, hell, why they are shooting in front of him. After seeing this I was more determined to dump all X2 from tships and then I stopped using them.

Its not the size, but the fact the models are not centred in the scene. It ONLY affects the Odysseus and Zeus Mk1s.

I will try and centre them next week.