[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[Sn4kemaster]

New Khaak style looks excellent......so the big question, whens the next update due?

And whatever happend to that new Split Cobra?

[Mizuchi]

And whatever happend to that new Split Cobra?

It got in my way.

[paulwheeler]

OPINIONS PLEASE
----------------------

I have a proposal and I wanted to run it past every one to make sure its not going to cause any problems.

I would like to get rid of the "tiny" ware size from the game.

I will then shift all ware sizes to create a new ware size between XL and ST. This will be XXL and referred to as "Huge Containers" (as Extra Extra Large sounds silly!)

The advantages of this are that it will enable me to mask wares/weapons from M6s, TSs etc. For example, I will be able to give the Baldric, Scabbard etc. the EMR without giving it the FPD as TSs, TPs etc. will be XL and M7s, M2s, M1s will be XXL and the the FPD will be XXL not XL.


Potential problems:

It will make the SRM incompatible with any mod that adds TWareT.

It may cause an issue with other scripts/mods that add wares as they will now be one ware size higher than they previously were. So if a script adds a ware that is "S" in vanilla, it will be "M" after this. I will shift vanilla wares so they are still the same size as they currently are, but I can't do it for scripts.

My question to you all is, will this be a problem? I do not run that many scripts so I'm not too sure if this will be a game breaker for some people.

As an example - MARS is "S" ware size in vanilla. However, after this change it will be "M". This is unlikely to cause a problem as you wont install MARS on an M5 anyway. But are there any other mods/scripts that might have a problem?

I'd like your feedback ASAP as I'd like to get this change into the next SRM update.

Thanks

[Cadius]

NICE! that deep purple glow looks excellent

[Requiemfang]

awesome looking there! enjoy one of the fighters in that pack there, one of the models I made for Cadius to use is there, think it's the M3 or it's the M4

brings a big sense of satisfaction to see something I put time and effort into. Can thank Cadius for bring it to life and putting it in game

[Mizuchi]

But are there any other mods/scripts that might have a problem?

The wonderful Capital Ship Energy Cell Generator (CSesG) script installs as an XL Ware, so I guess that may install as a ST Ware.

Also, MARS installs as a Tiny Ware for me. I'm not sure what's going on there.

Anyhow, as long as you add a simple readme that explains how to change the ware size(s) of third-party scripts, I don't think you'll run into any trouble.

I'm sure that anyone who is capable of installing all of SRM correctly is just as capable of opening up X3 Editor 2, loading the TWareT file, and changing the "Size" value of their favorite scripted wares.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

OPINIONS PLEASE
----------------------

I have a proposal and I wanted to run it past every one to make sure its not going to cause any problems.

I would like to get rid of the "tiny" ware size from the game.

I will then shift all ware sizes to create a new ware size between XL and ST. This will be XXL and referred to as "Huge Containers" (as Extra Extra Large sounds silly!)

The advantages of this are that it will enable me to mask wares/weapons from M6s, TSs etc. For example, I will be able to give the Baldric, Scabbard etc. the EMR without giving it the FPD as TSs, TPs etc. will be XL and M7s, M2s, M1s will be XXL and the the FPD will be XXL not XL.

IMO probably a better option would be to review the mounting types and ware classes for the EMR/FPD rather than change the fundamental ware sizes. At least that way you will avoid the inevitable outcry due to incompatibility issues.

The EMR for instance could (not inappropriatly) use the EMPC mount or the FPD could use the MAML or SSC mount.

Unless the intention is to merge CMOD with SRM into a combined "conversion class mod", I would avoid such a fundamental change.

[paulwheeler]

The EMR for instance could (not inappropriatly) use the EMPC mount or the FPD could use the MAML or SSC mount.

No they can't as it messes up weapon spawning for people not using EED and I'm not going to force people to use the EED.

[paulwheeler]

But are there any other mods/scripts that might have a problem?

The wonderful Capital Ship Energy Cell Generator (CSesG) script installs as an XL Ware, so I guess that may install as a ST Ware.

Also, MARS installs as a Tiny Ware for me. I'm not sure what's going on there.

Anyhow, as long as you add a simple readme that explains how to change the ware size(s) of third-party scripts, I don't think you'll run into any trouble.

I'm sure that anyone who is capable of installing all of SRM correctly is just as capable of opening up X3 Editor 2, loading the TWareT file, and changing the "Size" value of their favorite scripted wares.

XL wares would become XXL which would mean they would be fine to install into M7s and above. It would mean that the Capital Ship Energy Generator would be unavailable to M6s which is absolutely right, but would still be fine for M7s and above.

[paulwheeler]

NICE! that deep purple glow looks excellent

awesome looking there! enjoy one of the fighters in that pack there, one of the models I made for Cadius to use is there, think it's the M3 or it's the M4

brings a big sense of satisfaction to see something I put time and effort into. Can thank Cadius for bring it to life and putting it in game

Glad you both like the retexturing and thank you both for allowing the SRM use of your models!

[Mizuchi]

XL wares would become XXL which would mean they would be fine to install into M7s and above. It would mean that the Capital Ship Energy Generator would be unavailable to M6s which is absolutely right, but would still be fine for M7s and above.

Well then, have at it.

I'm going to default to my general opinion here: this is your mod, you're the one putting countless hours of work into it (when you could be spending your free time doing other things), and if you think it's a good idea, I don't think anyone has the right to tell you not to do it.

(Especially when your track record of "good ideas" has been pretty excellent.)

Obviously it's good practice to get your vocal advocates to sign off on the idea, but the end of the day... if you think it's beneficial, I'm sure they will too.

We have faith enough to be using SRM to begin with, after all.

[vkerinav]

You still need some sort of small transport capable of carrying XXL wares, superfreighters most likely.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The EMR for instance could (not inappropriatly) use the EMPC mount or the FPD could use the MAML or SSC mount.

No they can't as it messes up weapon spawning for people not using EED and I'm not going to force people to use the EED.

Don't you mean either EES or CWP? EED is Enhanced Equipment Docks

I do get your point (I know the pain of weapon types from my work on AWRM), but changing the ware class system in the manner you are suggesting is likely to cause other issues... if you change things as you suggest then it is likely that only L-class cargo ships will be able to carry passengers (currently it is restricted to M class - I believe this is hard coded).

In addition doing as you suggest will prevent transports from carrying the FPDs (and other heavy weapons) as cargo (which will probably prove to be generally unfavourable).

Surely there is a workable alternate option?

[Requiemfang]

NICE! that deep purple glow looks excellent

awesome looking there! enjoy one of the fighters in that pack there, one of the models I made for Cadius to use is there, think it's the M3 or it's the M4

brings a big sense of satisfaction to see something I put time and effort into. Can thank Cadius for bring it to life and putting it in game

Glad you both like the retexturing and thank you both for allowing the SRM use of your models!

expect to see more once Cad finally releases the models I gave him to use for the Borons

[paulwheeler]

In addition doing as you suggest will prevent transports from carrying the FPDs (and other heavy weapons) as cargo (which will probably prove to be generally unfavourable).

Surely there is a workable alternate option?

Now that is a good point. Doing this will stop the trade of heavy weapons... so I guess its not such a good idea. Damn - I knew I'd forgotten something.

There really isn't a viable alternative without forcing people to use a script. I really don't think I want to go down that path... (Yes I did mean EES).

I guess it'll have to remain as it is.

[joelR]

Paul wouldnt your propsed changes break the SSRP? I suppose thats a simple fix but maybe not....

[paulwheeler]

I was going to update the SSRP to fit - but due to the reason posted above I am going to have to abandon the idea anyway.



EDIT - Actually thinking about it... This change would only really affect trading of the FPD as I can keep all the other capital ship weapons as XL.

Will people really notice if they just can't trade the FPD in a TS?



Discussion back on...


RE: The SSRP - It would give more scope for changes, such as masking the Triplex scanner from M6s, TSs and TPs.

[TrixX]

I think they might

PM sent on a possible solution to your issue

[Mizuchi]

Will people really notice if they just can't trade the FPD in a TS?

I think they'll notice like they'll notice that you can't shoot spaceflies with an IonD anymore (which is to say, very few will).

Will they notice and care if they do? I doubt it.

It's not exactly going to cripple the game and the economy.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

If the issue is with FPDs being mountable on TS's/M6's, why not just make it ST, change all FPD ships to ST cargo? That way you get the FPD restrictions you want while still maintaining mod/script compatability.

Alternatively, as a further to my mount type suggestion... how about using the FBC mount for the FPD? As FBCs are not spawned by the vanilla weapon spawning code there would be no negative effects on that front.