[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[Dread]

Isn't the SRM supposed to be installed before the CMOD?

1 RRF
2 SRM
3 CMOD

[paulwheeler]

Base srm needs to be installed before cmod.

RRF can be installed at any point.

[paulwheeler]

paulwheeler, is it possible to add my Experimental Dragon to your mod? I see, that you already merged Ship Expansion by Killjaeden, so all resources (namely the turret, and cannon dummies) are there, and all that is needed are entries in TShips, TCockpits, scene file and possibly jobs entry.

If you do so, I could upload version of Lost in space mission compatibile with SRM (which would consist only of MD files, as the ship would already be in SRM).

If you browse through my cat/dat files, the Experimental Dragon's ID is SS_SH_PI_M6_SPEC and new cockpits are XX_PrototypeTestTurret and XX_COCKPIT_2SMALL.
The scene is \objects\ships\split\split_m6_exp_scene.pbd

Thanks in advance!

Have you got a screenshot or two of it?

[Falconek]

Have you got a screenshot or two of it?

Sure

[ external image ]
[ external image ]

Beam on the latter one is fire from 4 PALCs

[Sn4kemaster]

With the excellent work done on the Pirate cap ships a few updates ago between you and Mizuchi, have you ever thought about maybe a Yaki-fied (is this a real term?) version of the the Paranid M1 and M2 in the SRM?

I imagine they would be very rare Yaki ships that they...err acquired, but the excellent Samurai/Japanese graphics applied on them they could look really special......and with stats modified to suit the Yaki needs.

And maybe a very very rare Pirate Python too, if there was ever was a M2 designed for hit a run tactics pirate style, its that destroyer....in fact their are no Pirate split ships in the Vanilla game at all, weird!

[Mizuchi]

The problem with the Capital Ships is that they don't use the same kind of textures as the fighters do.

Capital Ships tend to use various tiling textures that are then repeated over and over again across the hull, with Fighters use textures that (for lack of a technical term) are specific to each area of the ship they're made for.

So the problem is that when we try and put a decal on a Capital Ship, it just gets repeated over and over again (you can see an example of this on the original Pirate Osprey).

This is why we just tinted them gold and tweaked the textures a little. The Hyperion is a little different as it uses the Paranid M3 textures, so that's why we had something to work with there.

I have an idea about how to get around the tiling thing though, but I need to find time to play around with it.

As for the reason of why there are no Pirate Split: we figured that it was thematically plausable that Teladi captains would occasionally switch sides or sell to the highest bidder - especially given their somewhat cordial relationship with the Pirate faction(s).

The Argon ships we assumed would fall into Pirate hands due to frequent skirmishes with the Argon Navy, sympathisers within the Argon Federation itself, or - as Vkerinav put it, if the Argon are like most Western powers - a tendency to sell to whoever wants to buy them and then worry about the consequences later.

(Like selling stuff to Libya before the revolution(s) began.)

But that's by no means set in stone - it's just the guiding logic for the ships you see currently, and I figured you'd appreciate the elaboration.

[Sn4kemaster]

As for the reason of why there are no Pirate Split: we figured that it was thematically plausable that Teladi captains would occasionally switch sides or sell to the highest bidder - especially given their somewhat cordial relationship with the Pirate faction(s).

The Argon ships we assumed would fall into Pirate hands due to frequent skirmishes with the Argon Navy, sympathisers within the Argon Federation itself, or - as Vkerinav put it, if the Argon are like most Western powers - a tendency to sell to whoever wants to buy them and then worry about the consequences later.

(Like selling stuff to Libya before the revolution(s) began.)

But that's by no means set in stone - it's just the guiding logic for the ships you see currently, and I figured you'd appreciate the elaboration.

I tend to agree with you on the explanation!

In fact the official Egosoft explanation a few years back in regards to the Teladi, was that they imagined that some of the Teladi Shipyards actually deal with some Pirate clans direct....... so it all ties in with this nicely.

In regards to the split, well Pirates do have a bad habbit of....... well Pirating!
So i would imagine the odd Split ship would be captured and salvaged, they would just be a lot rarer than Teladi and Argon ships, be nice to see a rare Mamba or Cougar with pirate flames and skulls etc.

Hope you work out a way to re-skin the cap ships, if you do ill order a Python in black with purple flames and red demon skulls

[Mizuchi]

Hope you work out a way to re-skin the cap ships, if you do ill order a Python in black with purple flames and red demon skulls

I wouldn't count on it - Split ships are awful to retexture because of how much dark, brown, and dark brown they have.

But you never know...

[vkerinav]

The troubling with adding more pirate ships is that you'd want to see them used by actual pirates. I explained how easily it is to hit two hundred and fifty ships per race over in the Jobs thread. To illustrate;

Pirates have four carriers, at present. The Galleon, both Teladi carriers, and the Colossus. Average fifty docked ships each, and that's two hundred right there. Now add everything else.

Now, if Paul could be persuaded to implement Mizuchi's twenty-fighter-per-carrier idea, then we'd have more space to mess around.

[paulwheeler]

Well I have already pulled back carrier dock numbers a bit. I was a bit wary of taking it further as it was quite a controversial change. Maybe ill revisit it, but then I'd have to give carriers something to compensate... perhaps more shields.

[builder680]

Well I have already pulled back carrier dock numbers a bit. I was a bit wary of taking it further as it was quite a controversial change. Maybe ill revisit it, but then I'd have to give carriers something to compensate... perhaps more shields.

Cut back their overall docking... but give the option to dock more m6's in the now fewer docking bays. Less ships, and if calculated accordingly, similar firepower.

Probably would require model work to add clamps or something I guess, not sure how M6's docking internally would look. Maybe not such a good idea after all. /shrug

Incidentally, if someone gave me a rundown of exactly where to look in tships, I'd be happy to take a crack at documenting how many OF EACH CLASS of ship can dock at other ships and/or stations, especially the ones modified/added by SRM. It's nice that the encyclopedia has info on lots, but it is incomplete, the BSD link isn't current, and it's a bit frustrating to have to ask all the time. If I knew where to look, I could easily incorporate the info into SRM stats.

[paulwheeler]

The dock numbers in tships are for overall docking number, split between external and internal - which is all three fighter classes only. For external docking you'd have to check every ship scene file for the type of external dock added.

However, the docking stated in BSD is probably 90% accurate with the srm.

Mizuchi and I are adding accurate docking numbers to ship descriptions as we update them.

Adding more m6 docking is quite a bit of work...

[builder680]

Oh that's right, forgot I asked that already. Sorry about that.

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

The troubling with adding more pirate ships is that you'd want to see them used by actual pirates. I explained how easily it is to hit two hundred and fifty ships per race over in the Jobs thread. To illustrate;

Pirates have four carriers, at present. The Galleon, both Teladi carriers, and the Colossus. Average fifty docked ships each, and that's two hundred right there. Now add everything else.

Now, if Paul could be persuaded to implement Mizuchi's twenty-fighter-per-carrier idea, then we'd have more space to mess around.

Does a job have to completely loadout a race carrier with fighters?

Perhaps a work around to it would be for the carrier's fighters to be added via script with a simple defend base type command? That way the docked fighters would not be counted in the 250 ship count, carriers would still be defended, and the docked fighters would only come in to play when the carrier is attacked. Plus... paul would not have to mess around with fighter docking capacities?

[Sn4kemaster]

The troubling with adding more pirate ships is that you'd want to see them used by actual pirates. I explained how easily it is to hit two hundred and fifty ships per race over in the Jobs thread. To illustrate;

Pirates have four carriers, at present. The Galleon, both Teladi carriers, and the Colossus. Average fifty docked ships each, and that's two hundred right there. Now add everything else.

Now, if Paul could be persuaded to implement Mizuchi's twenty-fighter-per-carrier idea, then we'd have more space to mess around.

Would adding a few extra Pirate models like Pirate Mamba's or Chimera's really bring a need to change anything at all?

For example any extra split pirate ships would be very rare, maybe just 2-3 per carrier, they would just be their as a rare capture for the player or simply for a little more flavour to the game........

Same with if their was ever a Pirate Python, when i suggested earlier, i only thought in my head that their would just be 1 floating around at any one time.......again a rare encounter for the player either to run from or capture.

If there was 1 thing i would say about the jobs in the future, is that some of the models could be used a little less to allow for more varaity as needed, as i think we have enough ships in the universe now, but more models that can be used is always fun.

I dont think cutting back on the carriers would feel right, some like the Wooden are already down to 20 now.

And i have just remembered, in Vanilla there was the the odd Pirate Split ship floating around always using a Chimera model.....but it was quite boring as it used the standard model and had no extra re-texture.

[su27]

I've just bought Setanta and I'd like to mount CMOD's Elecro-Magnetic Repeaters on every turret but it allows to mount it only on one front turret.
Can anyone help me to change game files to allow mounting CMOD EMR on every turret of this ship?

EDIT: Ok, I did it myself.

[vkerinav]

Does a job have to completely loadout a race carrier with fighters?

Perhaps a work around to it would be for the carrier's fighters to be added via script with a simple defend base type command? That way the docked fighters would not be counted in the 250 ship count, carriers would still be defended, and the docked fighters would only come in to play when the carrier is attacked. Plus... paul would not have to mess around with fighter docking capacities?

Well, no. I just think it looks silly to have carriers with only half-loads of fighters.

Honestly, though, I'm not sure what kind of CPU time a docked fighter running wing.protect, or any of the other !Job.wing scripts, uses. I assumed they become inactive, and wait for a signal from the carrier. If not, then I would certainly support a different solution.

Here's my question about scripting fighters in; is there some way to detect M6 docking slots, and fill them out?

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

...

Well, no. I just think it looks silly to have carriers with only half-loads of fighters.

In vanilla there are carriers flying around with no-fighters... it is even debatable if the UK government will be able to afford to fill our our new carriers with fighters

Honestly, though, I'm not sure what kind of CPU time a docked fighter running wing.protect, or any of the other !Job.wing scripts, uses. I assumed they become inactive, and wait for a signal from the carrier. If not, then I would certainly support a different solution.

From my experience, they seem to launch automatically when the combat music kicks in on player ships. So my guess is that they are waiting on a signal.

Here's my question about scripting fighters in; is there some way to detect M6 docking slots, and fill them out?

This discussion would probably be better continued in the Jobs thread, but... in a round about sense... possibly, it would be a bit of a hack to do so though.

A better option would be to do something along the lines of EES where you can specify a carrier's ship compliment via a text file. The jobs file would call the script on the carrier, then the script would detect the carrier ship type, and then spawn appropriate fighter compliments as per the configuration.

[Mizuchi]

Empty Carriers would become virtual M7s, and we really don't want to see that. I have to agree with Vkerinav on that point: a carrier with only half (or no) fighters is like an M2 loaded with nothing but IREs.

(Or loaded with party streamers. Surprise!)

I like the extra shielding idea, though, to compensate for fewer fighters (I don't even know how some of those ships even fit 50 fighters inside them!).

As for M6 docking... I prefer Paul's mentality of removing the ability to dock M6s to carriers where possible (welll, I think he did this?), as carriers are meant to carry fighters - not corvettes.

Seems to defeat the purpose if they turn up with corvettes attached to them (and I always think it looks weird when they're towing M6s around).

[vkerinav]

In vanilla there are carriers flying around with no-fighters... it is even debatable if the UK government will be able to afford to fill our our new carriers with fighters :P

Really, and doesn't that look (and sound) silly? Or plain idiotic? Although, I suppose it's a stretch to imagine that future governments are any better run than current ones.

And of course, let's not forget that other difference: X3 carriers have to go up against opponents that are comparably armed, where as the UK is unlikely to face more than a hostile rowboat.

[...]

I'll post a reply over there, then.

As for M6 docking... I prefer Paul's mentality of removing the ability to dock M6s to carriers where possible (welll, I think he did this?), as carriers are meant to carry fighters - not corvettes.

Well... no. Although BSD was included by Someone Else, SRMs previous modder, Paul left it there. I rather like it, though it'd be nice if it look a bit more intentional. Like the old Valhalla's clamps.