[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[paulwheeler]

Re: heavy m6s

I agree that the sentinel m6s have interferred with the heavy m6 class somewhat (they were even worse before I toned them down a bit). I have already given heavy m6s a bit of a boost, but I will be doing more. ideally they need more turrets, but that takes time. I will also boost their shielding up to near-hyperion levels.

Re: light m7s.

there already is one, the Talon. As Cadius adds more m7s I will add to this class. The gap between m6 and m7 is probably the biggest in the game and definately needs filling.

[Mizuchi]

I will also boost their shielding up to near-hyperion levels.

Here's an idea (that you are free to dismiss):

Change the Heavy Centaur to the Centaur Raider, make the Nexus an M6+ (on par with the Hyperion), scrap the Prototype variants completely (unless they use a different model) because they're kind of the same thing as "Heavy" versions only not, and then do the same for other races.

That should give you a little more room to add future ships without them being the same as other ships in all but design, too.

I'd also suggest naming the Heavy Osprey to something else just because (as I said in my previous post) it doesn't look anything like the Osprey; but considering you're kind of running out of names that could be better used for any future additions, that might not be such a great idea.

Madness?! This. Is. SRM.

[paulwheeler]

The problem with removing vanilla ships is that you never know when a plot or mission is going to come along and bite you in the ass (e.g. the HCP is a reward from doing the Jonferco missions).

I'd rather not do anything that drastic just in case it causes problems down the line.

[Sn4kemaster]

Paul can i ask that you swap the Medusa's model for the Tenjin's !!

It's is just a personal opinion, but the Medusa looks like its hit every branch when it fell out of the ugly tree, its a bl**dy ugly ship and does not deserve to be a Paranid design.

Keep all the stats the same, just re-skin a Tenjin with Paranid Imperial Navy art, and bobs you uncle a far better looking ship, and seeing that the Yaki use most of the Paranids designs it would make sense that the Yaki got the Tenjins design from the Paranid Navy anyway.

Rant over........


And the Agamemnon's cockpit still is the only Assault frigate with the standard Frigate cockpit view, it would look so much better if it had the same as the rest of the Assault frigates class.

[vkerinav]

Well, there are now four Argon corvettes, yes? So couldn't one of them replace the Heavy Centaur Prototype model? That is, keep the prototypes, just give them a new model.

They all appear quite similar to the basic models, so it would look reasonable. And Mizuchi could poke some fun at Cadius in the descriptions, claiming that some design review committee or whatever insisted on removing all those fins prior to mass production, along with other 'cost-saving measures'.

Whatever else happens, I do think their docking should be limited to M5s.

[paulwheeler]

Whatever else happens, I do think their docking should be limited to M5s.

I completely agree. I didn't realise Cadius' new ones had M3 docking. I will reduce this to M5 only.

[paulwheeler]

NEXT UPDATE UPDATE
---------------------------

This is probably going to be towards the end of next week as I'm currently working on new engine sounds. I realised that all ships of a specific class have the same engine noise - which is so dull. So for the next update, initially the Xenon and Kha'ak ships will be getting new engine sounds (think something along the lines of the Shivan engine noise from Freespace for the Kha'ak).

Lots of other fixes and improvments too including a new Ranger model, Mjollnir model and a resize of the Sirokos. All the bugs reported over the last few pages are sorted too.

I'm going to see what I can do with Heavy M6s too.

[paulwheeler]

Paul can i ask that you swap the Medusa's model for the Tenjin's !!

It's is just a personal opinion, but the Medusa looks like its hit every branch when it fell out of the ugly tree, its a bl**dy ugly ship and does not deserve to be a Paranid design.

Keep all the stats the same, just re-skin a Tenjin with Paranid Imperial Navy art, and bobs you uncle a far better looking ship, and seeing that the Yaki use most of the Paranids designs it would make sense that the Yaki got the Tenjins design from the Paranid Navy anyway.

Rant over........


And the Agamemnon's cockpit still is the only Assault frigate with the standard Frigate cockpit view, it would look so much better if it had the same as the rest of the Assault frigates class.

Actually the Heavy Assault Frigate Cockpits are all over the place. The Thresher uses the standard M7 one too. I'll standardise them all with the M2 cockpit in the next update.

As for replacing the Medusa model, I'm not sure. I'll have a think about it. I did get rid of the vanilla Eclipse I guess...

[Mizuchi]

The problem with removing vanilla ships is that you never know when a plot or mission is going to come along and bite you in the ass (e.g. the HCP is a reward from doing the Jonferco missions).

Oh. There is that, yeah.

It's not too difficult to edit the Director files so you get a different ship as a reward though; you just need to change "<param name="RewardType3" value="SS_SH_A_M6M_PROTO"/>" to something else.

If that's something you'd be interested in, then let me know and I'll do that for you.

It's is just a personal opinion, but the Medusa looks like its hit every branch when it fell out of the ugly tree

See, I happen to think the Medusa looks incredible, so... different strokes for different folks, I guess.

The only real problem with it is that Egosoft got a little lazy with the textures and just had it pull from the M3, M4, and M5 textures... which is why some of them look a little misaligned (hint: it's because they are).

The Hyperion suffers from the same problem, but it's not quite as obvious because of how the surface area(s) work out.

...along with other 'cost-saving measures'

AUSTERITY NOW!

NEXT UPDATE UPDATE...

And I have apparently agreed to paint something. We shall see how it turns out.

[Osiris454]

Re: heavy m6s

I agree that the sentinel m6s have interferred with the heavy m6 class somewhat (they were even worse before I toned them down a bit). I have already given heavy m6s a bit of a boost, but I will be doing more. ideally they need more turrets, but that takes time. I will also boost their shielding up to near-hyperion levels.
[\quote]

About that. The Hyperion has 5x 200MJ shields but the Heavy Centaur has 4. Adding 1 more shield would put it at Hyperion levels. I'm going off of the spreadsheet so please correct me if I'm wrong.

The Centaur Sentinel has an M3+ docking clamp. I was able to dock my Experimental Shuttle to it just fine. Sometimes when I dock my shuttle to the Centaur I can still hear the engine noises (at full speed) from the shuttle even though it's docked. Weird.

The Truelight Seeker has no engine trails or effects, but if you're going to replace the model then this is probably a moot point.

[paulwheeler]

I'm not changing the Truelight Seeker model so I'll give it trails. I'm replacing the Ranger model.

I'm thinking give all Heavy M6s another shield slot. They do need more weapon hard points as well. Although I'm thinking the same number of turrets, but with more guns rather than more turrets (more turrets can be the domain of the sentinel variants). I think a couple of heavy M6s should be able to realistically take on an M7, but not able to defend themselves too well from multiple enemies.

I need to rethink the Hyperion too really. It needs a "slot" rather than just better in every department. It needs an Achilles heel so I may re-jig it a little.

[builder680]

Got a weird occurrence and not sure if it's SRM related.

I was offered a ship with an odd string of letters, symbols, and numbers for its name.

When I bought it, it didn't show up in my property list anywhere.

By chance is this from a misplaced entry in a modded file somewhere?

Also, Scabbard trails seem a bit "overboard," thogh it's no big deal. It's just odd to see a TP with so much "exhaust." Here's some video. I'd expect that from a ship with much larger engines. Probably not much to be done about it.

[Sn4kemaster]

I need to rethink the Hyperion too really. It needs a "slot" rather than just better in every department. It needs an Achilles heel so I may re-jig it a little.

I think the Hyperion should be treated different to any other ship...oh and i admit straight away to having a soft spot for this ship

I think the main problem is that it really should still be a unique ship like in the description, not another mass produced Heavy M6.....the player should not be able to buy this ship, it should be a goal and a prize.

There should just be 1 floating around at any one time and it should be hard as nails to board, with marines and hull polarizing etc etc......

But i do think it should be special and dare i say it in the SRM a little OP, even more than it currently is, sorry and i know ill burn in the fiery pits of hell for uttering it in this thread but i cant help it.........it should be like the Liberator in Blake Seven.....just better and a little different and a one off.

[cnecktor]

Hi I haven been playing a while starting to rebuild my empire form old game , and decided to do some of the plot. The shipyard in Saturn has some ships with read text instead of there name. Is there some way I could fix it not sure whats wrong I'm pretty sure I installed everything correctly.

[Mizuchi]

I think the main problem is that it really should still be a unique ship like in the description, not another mass produced Heavy M6. The player should not be able to buy this ship, it should be a goal and a prize.

I disagree: I like the Hyperion being a mass-produced ship.

While it doesn't mesh with the "plot" of the game start in which you can inherit it, it never seemed right that it was the only ship that was a unique vessel when it was - for all intents and purposes - a perfectly serviceable ship that should evolve beyond the "one-of-a-kind" nature.

It also never seemed right that such a "special and unique" ship could be stolen by the player without the Paranid Empire caring, you know?

That said... I have an idea, but I'll have to ask Paul.

Anyhow: M6+. That's where the Hyperion should go. Right between an M6 and an M7 (as should the Nexus and Heavy Osprey).

[Osiris454]

I'm thinking give all Heavy M6s another shield slot. They do need more weapon hard points as well. Although I'm thinking the same number of turrets, but with more guns rather than more turrets (more turrets can be the domain of the sentinel variants). I think a couple of heavy M6s should be able to realistically take on an M7, but not able to defend themselves too well from multiple enemies.

Actually that was was I had in mind too. I actually said that in my long post. Turret wise everything is dandy, they just need more guns and shields. The Heavy Centaur could easily handle 10 front guns with a minor laser generator upgrade.

Oh, and thanks for upgrading the laser gens on the freighters. They can actually defend themselves just long enough to jump out now or -if the target is weak enough- destroy the aggressor(s).

EDIT: I almost forgot; the FPD was not in the ware list for the 'Strong Arms Weapons Dealer XL' station that I found (in the middle of nowhere). The EMR was, but the FPD wasn't.

I don't know about you guys, but does the Truelight seeker look like a chipmunk with it's cheeks stuffed? To me anyway, it just looks... odd.

[Sn4kemaster]

I think the main problem is that it really should still be a unique ship like in the description, not another mass produced Heavy M6. The player should not be able to buy this ship, it should be a goal and a prize.

I disagree: I like the Hyperion being a mass-produced ship.

While it doesn't mesh with the "plot" of the game start in which you can inherit it, it never seemed right that it was the only ship that was a unique vessel when it was - for all intents and purposes - a perfectly serviceable ship that should evolve beyond the "one-of-a-kind" nature.

It also never seemed right that such a "special and unique" ship could be stolen by the player without the Paranid Empire caring, you know?

That said... I have an idea, but I'll have to ask Paul.

Anyhow: M6+. That's where the Hyperion should go. Right between an M6 and an M7 (as should the Nexus and Heavy Osprey).

I was thinking of the original Hyperion back in X3 Reunion and its back story/mission of it being the personal Starship of the Paranid leader.......not the watered down version we got in X3 Terran Conflict.

But saying that i do agree with you if it to stay mass produced that it should be a M6+ ......... so i await your idea with interest.

[Osiris454]

I really don't think the Hyperion needs an 'Achillies Heel.'
Not every ship has to have a weakness, IMHO. Some could just be brilliantly designed and egineered but almost impossible to get. Such was the case of the Agamemnon. The Hyperion and Agamemnon hybrids were scrapped due to budget diversions, but otherwise should be godlike ships IF you can even get ahold of one. Lore wise, only 1 Agamemnon was said to exist and it belongs to the Priest Duke in Dukes Domain.

[Mizuchi]

The Hyperion's Achille's Heel is "Anything With More Guns Than The Hyperion".


Alternative A:

The Hyperion's Achille's Heel is "What Are All Those Pretty Blue Streaks Over In The Dist-".


Alternative B:

The Hyperion's Achille's Heel is "I'm Pretty Sure I'm Not Going To Reverse Into This Stati-".



But no: they do need some weaknesses; because that's kind of the point of the "Rebalance" part of this Mod's title, no?

God-Like ships generally aren't balanced, per se.

[TrixX]

Not necessarily. A well balanced ship with good design can be targetted at something bigger (like good M6 vs low end M7) doesn't necessarily mean it's that much better than all the other M6, just that you may need an M6 and a half to beat it