[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

[ChickenSmeller]

Did you test it with a new Mammoth or one that already existed before you made your changes? You need to spawn an entirely new ship to see the changes.

EDIT: Problem solved, solution is at the bottom

Ok, so I tried creating a new Mammoth, no joy. I then went and edited just the Titan scene file and removed all the docking mod stuff and started a new game. Still no joy, the Mammoth still has 5 bays and accepts a TS and the Titan has 2 bays.

Changes made to the SRM cat files, and re imported, are these:

M2_Titan_P_Scene.bod : Deleted BDS Mod entries at bottom
TL_Mammoth_P_Scene.bod: Deleted from *.cat file
TL_Mammoth_P.bod: Deleted from *.cat file
dummies.txt: Reverted top docking entries to vanilla

--SOLUTION--
I extracted the entire mod contents, and noticed there is not only a Mammoth_Scene and Titan_Scene, but there is also an Argon_M2_Scene and Argon_TL_Scene. I deleted the BDS entries from those scene files, and now everything is working just fine. After work I plan on writing a little script that will go through and delete the DBS entires, since they have been nicely commented.

Looks like I'll have my perfect MOD after all. I know I'm a bit obsessive on this, and I do miss TS->TL docking from X2, but I think the bombers on ships stuck on the ship surface are just goofy.

[builder680]

Trying to learn how to do boarding (never did in vanilla either). It seems all ships have Marines on board. Is this normal, or is it something to make ships in SRM tougher?

My marines just get owned by the enemies', if I can manage to even land them on their ship with Boarding Pods (using M7M).

[Mizuchi]

Is this normal, or is it something to make ships in SRM tougher?

Sadly, it's normal. SRM doesn't add any extra marines to AI ships (as far as I'm aware).

I say "sadly" because bording is notoriously difficult (although I can understand why as the reaped rewards for being able to capture and sell ships with ease would quickly imbalance the game).

AI ships have their own internal security (sometimes) too, irrespective of any on-board marines; and sometimes your Marines just fail because they get all DERP and shoot themselves in the face or something.

Try Cycrow's Improved Boarding script. That helps with the overall process of boarding.

Couple that with a Marine Training script to get them to five-star rankings quicker), tweak the armor value of Boarding Pods (in Globals - thanks again, Roger!) to help them survive against turrets (especially if you're using MARS), and that should even the score somewhat.

Make sure you read a bunch of Boarding FAQs, too; they're useful guides.

It's still very difficult to capture bigger ships, but it doesn't feel like like you're being punished for trying.

[builder680]

Thanks Mizuchi. All around excellent advice as usual. I just wanted to check if it was to do with SRM or not, mainly.

It's an understatement, but learning to board is HARD, at least for me. I'm reading everything I can and I still can't board an M6 with my M7M (let alone trying to spacewalk) and 20 marines... they mostly all die on their way in on Pods, or can't make it through the hull... or die on the ship.

Furthest I've gotten is trying to launch all 20 marines, but most of them wind up in space somehow? I think it's 5 per Boarding Pod, so I launch 4 Pods... anyway, I've cleared the first deck a couple of times on an Osprey that had 5 marines... and once against a TL (trying to get Atmo Lifter!) that had something like 14 marines... but that's it.

Try, try again... as they say.

[paulwheeler]

Unfortunately marine numbers is hard coded so there is nothing I can do.

[builder680]

Unfortunately marine numbers is hard coded so there is nothing I can do.

Not a big deal, I actually prefer it to be difficult. In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

[Mizuchi]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

[builder680]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

Most likely.

But I really want a fleet full of Atmospheric Lifters, so I need at least one to RE!

Plus I really like the Pirate Heavy Ospreys, they are pretty sweet lookin'.

[Locksley]

Saw that the Terran planet lifter had a glowing ball beside the fuselage and not only the engines.

Using SRM_1.05 TRAILS_SRMCAP.

Also saw a TS with 1MW shield recharge and battery, can't for my life remember which one now Well, I'll get back to ya.

Also I am not using thr latest fix but the basic 1.05.

Cheers!

[builder680]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

Severely off topic of SRM, but just to finish up this discussion:

It was a pain, but I FINALLY managed to cap an Advanced Chokaro with 20 marines (only 10 lived). It had 5 enemy Marines, one at like 4 stars and the rest 0-2 I think. Mine were mostly only quick trained in a skill once or twice, and only had whatever fighting skill they came with (I think I had one or two 4 stars, the rest 0-2 fighting.

It had Internal Sentry Lasers and Hull Polarization, so mid-fight I sent a freighter to grab some Ion Disruptors (after about 20 reloads and realizing I'd never win with those on the target ship), and bring them to my M7M via Transporter Device... so I could fry those enemy systems.

In the meantime, the Chokaro had a Flamethrower wep so I couldn't hit it with missiles or Boarding Pods without them being roasted, so I had my Vidar autopilot attack it. I had it set to attack shields, but this threw off my Flail timing (which took a LONG time to get right), so I eventually took off the Vidar's guns... but let it continue to 'attack shields.' This at least kept the flamethrower pointed at the Vidar.

Once that was all figured out, it took maybe 5 reloads to cap the thing. With 4% hull left. But figuring all that out took a couple of days and dozens of reloads.

Pain in the ass, but a glorious moment for my Marines, and for the RE department of Applied Designs (my PHQ name).

I will now stop posting about my stupid boarding ops in the SRM thread.

P.S. If I don't fully repair it, will my PHQ do RE on it with proper stats? In other words, will it give it the speed stats of a 4% ship, since that's all the hull it had left?

[Osiris454]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

Blah,blah,blah,etc.

Damage to the ship is ignored when RE'ing. It will be rebuilt using the default wares and tunings installed on the ship when you initially build it from your PHQ. You might want to repair it just in case it runs into trouble on the way. You really don't want a Spacefly destroying your ship when it hit's it.

Paul, I've been playing around with the Centaur Sentinel and I absolutly love it! The sheer amount of plasma that it can put in the air at once is just amazing, but it got me thinking. What role does the Heavy Centaur have now? The Sentinel has the shields of the Heavy Centaur, more guns, can dock an M3+, and a huge cargo bay. The only thing it doesn't have is the laser reactor and a loss in some speed. Even so, the Heavy Centaur still outclassed by the Sentinel.
I was thinking of making all 'Heavy' M6's more.... 'Heavy'. For an example all M6 Heavy's would be given 2 more sheild slots and have a minimum of 10 front guns (some would have 12) while having a slightly larger cargo bay and laser reactor while maintaining the same speed. The heavy centaur would have 10 front guns instead of 6 with 6 200MJ shields instead of 4. Cargo bay would be increased to 1600 and the laser generator would go up to about 18K'ish, and before you ask what I'm smoking or if you can have some too, I have a reason for this change. You see the choices in M7's are vast and even a 'light' M7 could easily splatter an M6 of any class. Heavy M6's are rare in the universe, most races use just the basic M6 with patrols, raids, etc. and when a 'Heavy' M6 is used it is usually the lead with 2 standard M6's escorting it. There isn't much variety in M6's really, and most have stats that are really close to each other making a choice between a heavy and a regular M6 a tough one. I wanted to make the heavy M6's just like their M7 counterparts. When you go from a normal M7 to a heavy version you have a drastic increase in firepower and shielding.

What do you guys think?

[Mizuchi]

You could just give the Heavy Centaur more speed and call it a Centaur Raider and complete the trilogy, and follow suit with the rest if other "Heavy" M6s wind up with the same imbalance?

(I still can't see how the Heavy Osprey is related to the normal Osprey at all.)

...and then Cadius will make Raider variants, and we'll have to call then Vanguards; and the Cadius will make Vanguards, and Paul will say bad words.

Still, do there even need to be "Heavy" M6s at all?

I mean, the M6+ exists as well (like the Hyperion, which was originally meant to be an M7+, apparently), so there's some redundancy going on there.

[builder680]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

Blah,blah,blah,etc.

Blah,blah,blah,etc.

When you go from a normal M7 to a heavy version you have a drastic increase in firepower and shielding.

What do you guys think?

I think I've never seen a "Heavy" M7... What ships are you talking about, if I may ask?

[Mizuchi]

I think I've never seen a "Heavy" M7... What ships are you talking about, if I may ask?

M7+(s), more than "Heavy" M7s (which is what an M7+ basically is, but isn't) like you'd imagine a "Heavy Cerberus".

Ossie is just using vanilla terms.

We kind of have both "Heavy" and "+" in SRM now; the former being a quirk of Vanilla, and the latter being the natural evolution of plugging the gap(s) between classes without the ability to add new Military numbers for classes.

Or... that's my take on it, anyhow.

I haven't been elected as Osiris's spokesperson recently, so I'm sure they can speak for themselves.

[Osiris454]

In fact, once I "get it," I'll probably wish it was even harder. No worries, mate.

Once you "get it", you'll probably decide it's more trouble than it's worth and stick to exploding things.

Blah,blah,blah,etc.

Blah,blah,blah,etc.

When you go from a normal M7 to a heavy version you have a drastic increase in firepower and shielding.

What do you guys think?

I think I've never seen a "Heavy" M7... What ships are you talking about, if I may ask?

A "Heavy" M7 is like what Mizuchi said, it's really a M7+, but I call them "Heavy's" because they are the only M7's that can mount capital class weapons like PSP's, PPC's, etc.

There are 4 or 5 classes of M7's.
M7 Anti-Fighter = Cerberus
M7 Heavy = Cyclops
M7 Missile = Minotaur
M7 Carrier = Griffin

This is just the Argon ones. The Teladi have an even wider selection but I don't know all of their names.

[builder680]

I understand now. Would the Agamemnon be considered a "Heavy" M7? Or an M7 +? The only other M7's the Paranids have are Deimos (carrier, I think?) and their M7M Ares. So with only 3 frigates, I'm not sure if they have a "Heavy" one...

It can mount PPC's, I ask because it's heaviest ship I currently own in this game.

[Osiris454]

I understand now. Would the Agamemnon be considered a "Heavy" M7? Or an M7 +? The only other M7's the Paranids have are Deimos (carrier, I think?) and their M7M Ares. So with only 3 frigates, I'm not sure if they have a "Heavy" one...

It can mount PPC's, I ask because it's heaviest ship I currently own in this game.

Yes, the Agamemnon is considered a "Heavy" M7/M7+. The Deimos is a standard M7 I think. No real roll in mind, just a good allrounder.

Other examples of 'Heavy" M7's/M7+'s.

ATF: Kvasir
Terran: Hayabusa
Argon: Cyclops
Boron: Kraken
Paranid: Agamemnon
Teladi: ? - I can't remeber their names, but their is more than 1. :/
Xenon: C or Q, but the C is even more loaded with weapons and shields than the Q.
A note on the Q: It has one of the rarest or only weapon setup I've seen in the entire game. The capital ship weapons are mounted as player controlled 'cockpit' weapons. All others use turrets. The thing is more like an M9 gunship than an M7.

[vkerinav]

A "Heavy" M7 is like what Mizuchi said, it's really a M7+, but I call them "Heavy's" because they are the only M7's that can mount capital class weapons like PSP's, PPC's, etc.

There are 4 or 5 classes of M7's.
M7 Anti-Fighter = Cerberus
M7 Heavy = Cyclops
M7 Missile = Minotaur
M7 Carrier = Griffin

This is just the Argon ones. The Teladi have an even wider selection but I don't know all of their names.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is an 'M7 Light' class of frigates with about the same size as the Griffin, or slightly smaller, with perhaps four corvette-class weapons on three to four turrets, and less than two GJs of shielding.

[Osiris454]

A "Heavy" M7 is like what Mizuchi said, it's really a M7+, but I call them "Heavy's" because they are the only M7's that can mount capital class weapons like PSP's, PPC's, etc.

There are 4 or 5 classes of M7's.
M7 Anti-Fighter = Cerberus
M7 Heavy = Cyclops
M7 Missile = Minotaur
M7 Carrier = Griffin

This is just the Argon ones. The Teladi have an even wider selection but I don't know all of their names.

It seems to me that what you're suggesting is an 'M7 Light' class of frigates with about the same size as the Griffin, or slightly smaller, with perhaps four corvette-class weapons on three to four turrets, and less than two GJs of shielding.

No not really. Just a buff to the M6 Heavy class, or any M6 with the word "Heavy" in the name. I was really only using the M7 class as a comparison since there seems to be some distinction between ships.

[Osiris454]

Double post fail.