[MOD-TC]Ship Rebalance Mod:Continued v1.10b (27/6/11): Now Discontinued...

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paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

robalexhall wrote:Just a quick question.

What is the trade off between the Logich and the Morrigu (Terran frigates).

They seem roughly similar except one has a massively superior laser generator.

I'm still a noob to TC so probably I'm missing something.
The Morrigu is the heavier of the two. The Logich is aimed at the anti-fighter role and can moun SSC all round. Morrigu has heavier weapons, more shields but is slower.

To be honest its difficult to make a huge distinction in the Terran M7s because the are simply so many of them.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

Osiris454 wrote:Paul, I made a change in the Cerberus. After doing a lot of comparison and trials (I've been flying this thing for months), I found out that the Cerberus is too weak to engage more than 1 M6 at a time and it can be overwhelmed with just 7 M3+ fighters. Going from the description of this thing, I decided that it really needed a buff, if ever so slightly.

1. Added 1 shield slot. Max is now 4GJ.
2. All of the turrets can now use High Energy Plasma Throwers. Side, Up, Down, and Rear.

Fighter limit is an unknown. They simply die too fast for me to count. ;)
A single corvette can be taken out much better now with the addition of the HEPT's. I still only have 74% of my shielding left from the Xenon LX, but I happened to take him out with only the rear turrets (Yay! HEPTs!). I can't take on anything bigger though, but that means It's not overpowered (to me at least).

It may be able to hold it's own against larger threats, but it is definitly designed for fighters and corvettes now. :D
There is very definately a fine balance, buts its difficult to alter just one ship without looking at all the others as well. There are several anti-fighter frigates in the game and they are all balanced against each other.

However, I've certainly never seen a Cerberus have trouble with a couple of M6s... Are you mounting flak (or cluster flak) all round? Being able to mount flak in every turret (and its sheer speed) is what gives the Cerberus its edge. HEPTS are just not up to the job and are more of a fighter weapon.

Ideal loadout for the Cerberus in an anti-fighter role for me is CIG in the main guns and Flak in the rest.
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Locksley
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SRM & IR

Post by Locksley »

NOTE 1:
Installed SRM, Ship Equip. Re-bal, low hull mult, srm-jobs without X2.

I am itching to activate sector takeover and race response in Improved Races but a pointer from an other IR user made me want some more information - http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... start=3465

Osiris454 was made aware that the GOD engine does not re-populate destroyed SRM stations?
"ATF headquarters, DarkSpace weapons dealers, Fusion Pulse Disruptor forges, etc. Once they are destroyed, they are never replaced."
A way to re-populate somewhere when they are destroyed? Or maybe they allready to that but Osiris454 has not found them?




NOTE 2:
As I am using Ship Systems Re-Balance I was wondering about how the size changes affects NPC traders.

We got High-Tech NPC traders in crafts that only take M size cargo, but they are set, amongst other things, to trade in 1GW shields that are XL in size.

What happens if the trader see's a good deal for those shields and go to buy some? Does it dock and just hog CPU cycles as it can't load the cargo?

Note that these are not my traders but the game-engine's.




NOTE 3:
Octupus Raider, all variants costs over 1 million credits. Is this correct, as the other variants are at the most 200 000C?




Thanks for all the hard work!
I really like the System Re-Balance. Also a question about repair lasers. Is there a script that links using the repair lasers (both in suit and via ships & drones) use products of some sort to be able to repair. I agree with the X-tended team that it is slightly un-balancing. Now I buy a used ship at 70% hull, repair it and voila, I get allot more for it :P

Cheers!
Projects:
Onhold..... time time....
Sn4kemaster
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Post by Sn4kemaster »

paulwheeler wrote:
The Morrigu is the heavier of the two. The Logich is aimed at the anti-fighter role and can moun SSC all round. Morrigu has heavier weapons, more shields but is slower.

To be honest its difficult to make a huge distinction in the Terran M7s because the are simply so many of them.

I guessing you will be filtering in Caduis new ships soon in the SRM?

Noticed that Cadius has done a new Split battlecruiser the Adder....the Split have already got a Heavy assult frigate in the Ocelot so have you penciled this in as a light destroyer in the Boreas mode along with that Terran one ?

I am so itching too have a look when they get released but im sticking with the SRM so would you be adding the new ships soon after Cadius realese?
paulwheeler
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Re: SRM & IR

Post by paulwheeler »

Locksley wrote:NOTE 1:
Installed SRM, Ship Equip. Re-bal, low hull mult, srm-jobs without X2.

I am itching to activate sector takeover and race response in Improved Races but a pointer from an other IR user made me want some more information - http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php? ... start=3465

Osiris454 was made aware that the GOD engine does not re-populate destroyed SRM stations?
"ATF headquarters, DarkSpace weapons dealers, Fusion Pulse Disruptor forges, etc. Once they are destroyed, they are never replaced."
A way to re-populate somewhere when they are destroyed? Or maybe they allready to that but Osiris454 has not found them?
I am currently working on rewriting all the SRM scripts so that they are compatible with scripts that use sector take over. It will also add a degree of randomness to where they spawn and will respawn them if they should get destroyed. This is probably a week or so away at the moment.
Locksley wrote: NOTE 2:
As I am using Ship Systems Re-Balance I was wondering about how the size changes affects NPC traders.

We got High-Tech NPC traders in crafts that only take M size cargo, but they are set, amongst other things, to trade in 1GW shields that are XL in size.

What happens if the trader see's a good deal for those shields and go to buy some? Does it dock and just hog CPU cycles as it can't load the cargo?

Note that these are not my traders but the game-engine's.
The ship systems rebalance does not affect what cargo size ships can carry. It just changes the ware size of a couple of wares like the jumpdrive and transporter device etc. By and large ship cargo sizes are the same as they are in vanilla.

The problem you mention is an issue with the vanilla game as well. However, I will have a word with Vkerinav. Perhaps there is something we can do to fix this vanilla bug.

Locksley wrote: NOTE 3:
Octupus Raider, all variants costs over 1 million credits. Is this correct, as the other variants are at the most 200 000C?
Well spotted. the Octopus raider still has the triplex scanner as a built in ware. This is the reason for the high price. I will fix this for the next update.
Locksley wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work!
I really like the System Re-Balance. Also a question about repair lasers. Is there a script that links using the repair lasers (both in suit and via ships & drones) use products of some sort to be able to repair. I agree with the X-tended team that it is slightly un-balancing. Now I buy a used ship at 70% hull, repair it and voila, I get allot more for it :P

Cheers!
Buy an SRM Otas maintenance pod from the Otas shipyard, get some Quantum Tubes for ammo and voila! :wink:
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

Sn4kemaster wrote:
paulwheeler wrote:
The Morrigu is the heavier of the two. The Logich is aimed at the anti-fighter role and can moun SSC all round. Morrigu has heavier weapons, more shields but is slower.

To be honest its difficult to make a huge distinction in the Terran M7s because the are simply so many of them.

I guessing you will be filtering in Caduis new ships soon in the SRM?

Noticed that Cadius has done a new Split battlecruiser the Adder....the Split have already got a Heavy assult frigate in the Ocelot so have you penciled this in as a light destroyer in the Boreas mode along with that Terran one ?

I am so itching too have a look when they get released but im sticking with the SRM so would you be adding the new ships soon after Cadius realese?
I will be adding in Cadius' new ships as soon as I can after he releases them. I have not really considered where to put the Adder, but your idea is a likely choice (if its larger than the Ocelot, otherwise I may beef up the Ocelot).
Anti-Paranoid
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Post by Anti-Paranoid »

Paul!
You want icecream for free?

CADIUS AWESOMEPACK ADDDDDD :D
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Locksley
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Post by Locksley »

Thanks for the prompt reply Paul.

So I should be able to start up the improved races and when you release your update it will check for missing stations and re-populate? Or should I wait for a few weeks :wink:



Hmm, I might exchange the repair laser on the suit so I'll not be tempted to use it. Also, I must check up on the other repair possibilities added.



Eh, on an other subject. I was not able to change Gazz Mars script so it recognized 43 lasers for CMOD ----REMOVED--- EDIT - It worked better when I used ExScriptor to change it to 43. I think I used the wrong type, number instead of string or some such. END EDIT

Cheers!
Last edited by Locksley on Sat, 12. Mar 11, 17:29, edited 1 time in total.
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GrieferBastard
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Post by GrieferBastard »

Now that I've gotten good at equipping and deploying drones for my heavy ships to deal with torpedo swarms I'm finding the balance in SRM pretty amazing. Most of the balance issues I'm finding are more a product of Improved Races and how it handles deployment than anything else.

Cost to field and equip/maintain is a place where the Cerberus, Argon ships in generally actually, really shine. A good speed/firepower/protection/cost balance. The balance is assumed to work off of purchased, not captured, expense. I capped a pirate Titan - I'm still, slowly, building up a supply of PPC and PBCs to equip it with. I can buy, trick, fit and field a Cerberus in about 15 minutes, often with gear I've stripped off of capped pirate ships.

2 Cerberus + 2 or 3 M6s makes a faster, cheaper and more effective escort for carriers than an M2. They can outrun what they can't outgun and I can repurpose and redeploy them very quickly and they have the staying power to last in a bad situation long enough to run away.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

Locksley wrote:Thanks for the prompt reply Paul.

So I should be able to start up the improved races and when you release your update it will check for missing stations and re-populate? Or should I wait for a few weeks
The new scripts will seamlessly take over from the old ones so go ahead and install IR.
Osiris454
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Post by Osiris454 »

paulwheeler wrote:
Osiris454 wrote:Paul, I made a change in the Cerberus. After doing a lot of comparison and trials (I've been flying this thing for months), I found out that the Cerberus is too weak to engage more than 1 M6 at a time and it can be overwhelmed with just 7 M3+ fighters. Going from the description of this thing, I decided that it really needed a buff, if ever so slightly.

1. Added 1 shield slot. Max is now 4GJ.
2. All of the turrets can now use High Energy Plasma Throwers. Side, Up, Down, and Rear.

Fighter limit is an unknown. They simply die too fast for me to count. ;)
A single corvette can be taken out much better now with the addition of the HEPT's. I still only have 74% of my shielding left from the Xenon LX, but I happened to take him out with only the rear turrets (Yay! HEPTs!). I can't take on anything bigger though, but that means It's not overpowered (to me at least).

It may be able to hold it's own against larger threats, but it is definitly designed for fighters and corvettes now. :D
There is very definately a fine balance, buts its difficult to alter just one ship without looking at all the others as well. There are several anti-fighter frigates in the game and they are all balanced against each other.

However, I've certainly never seen a Cerberus have trouble with a couple of M6s... Are you mounting flak (or cluster flak) all round? Being able to mount flak in every turret (and its sheer speed) is what gives the Cerberus its edge. HEPTS are just not up to the job and are more of a fighter weapon.

Ideal loadout for the Cerberus in an anti-fighter role for me is CIG in the main guns and Flak in the rest.
With MARS I have FAAs, CIGs, and PACs or PRGs available to all turrets, but the FAA's have a range of 1.75Km and CIGs cannot be mounted on any other turrets except for the sides. PACs have a shorter range and are weaker than HEPT's by a good deal. The HEPTs were only really added to defend against an M6. PRGs can only do maximum damage when all 3 burst rounds impact the target, so a small object like an M3-M5 or even some M6's will only get hit with about 2/3rds of the shot, putting it in a weaker slot than a PAC. Also, an M6 on my tail can fire at me, but I can't fire at him unless I turn, but then I only have a minimum of 2 CIG's firing at him because all other available weapons cannot reach him. CFAs have a slow refire rate and projectile speed, so MARS does not like to use them against fighters or corvettes and they can be tricky to aim when used as front mounted weapons because of the large fireball when they explode.
I generally don't like using CIGs because of the knock-around effect. FPD's don't have this and thats why I friggin LOVE them. There is also the rather wide spacing between the front mounted weapons so slow firing weapons like the CIG can really only do maximum damage when they all reach the same target. When the target is close to the ship, only about half of the shots will impact the target.

I don't carry and escort with me, and my ship is generally the only one in the sector. I get too nervous using the AI to fight for me as I generally only have enough funds for just my own ship and cannot afford to replace multiple M6's when they get shot down.

I though of a new type of ship. An M3 freighter, not hauler. A Nova Freighter so to speak. The AI uses M3's to move freight around some sectors a lot, weapon's dealers and such. However, only a few ships can carry a full fledged TS for resupply purposes. An M3 class freighter with minimal weapons and an expanded cargo bay would really help in those situations where you cannot dock a TS to your ship.
Osiris454
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Post by Osiris454 »

Paul,

1. The Sirokos M7M is not compatible with any missiles except for boarding pods, but it doesn't have any marine capacity.

2. The 'large ship explosion sound' is playing an awful lot. It plays almost all of the time when I enter a sector with hostiles in it. It even plays it when asteroids are destroyed.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

Osiris454 wrote:Paul,

1. The Sirokos M7M is not compatible with any missiles except for boarding pods, but it doesn't have any marine capacity.

2. The 'large ship explosion sound' is playing an awful lot. It plays almost all of the time when I enter a sector with hostiles in it. It even plays it when asteroids are destroyed.
The sirokos is not an m7m in the traditional sense. Its just a boarding frigate so can only mount boarding pods. This is how it is in vanilla. Marine capacity is hard coded so should be he same as other m7ms...

However, thinking about do we really want two Otas m7ms? They both use the same model anyway. I could give the Aquilo boarding pod compatibility and get rid of the Sirokos. That would free up the name for something else. (Names that Betty can say are things I'm rapidly running out of)

Re: explosion sound - This is a cmod thing. it always did play that much, you were just too far away to hear it. In the latest cmod release I just made it a little louder and increased the audibility distance so you can hear it from further away. If people don't like it I could tweak it a bit more or change the explosion sound for some things like asteroids. There are only three explosion sounds in the vanilla game - small medium and large. Doesn't give much scope for variety!
Sn4kemaster
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Post by Sn4kemaster »

paulwheeler wrote: However, thinking about do we really want two Otas m7ms? They both use the same model anyway. I could give the Aquilo boarding pod compatibility and get rid of the Sirokos. That would free up the name for something else. (Names that Betty can say are things I'm rapidly running out of)
Seems a good idea to me, the Sirokos really is a bit pointless other than its extra marine capacity....

Talking of marines, or should i say the lack of them for the Terran's...

Any chance you could add them into Terran space in a future update, maybe at military outposts?

In fact you could buy USC Marines at any Military outpost and ATF Commando's at the ATF headquarters...these could cost a lot more but say have 3 stars in fighting as standard (elite special forces)!

If you do you would have to give ATF a ship that could launch borading pod's, Skinir is the obvious choice for that.


Edit....you would have to also have the ability to train them in Terran space too....Military bases and ATF headquarters again seem the most likely places
Sinnerman264
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Post by Sinnerman264 »

A question regarding updating of mods... when paul releases a new version of this mod, is it possible to just replace old files and continue playing?

If that is possible, is it also possible to add a new mod (which is, let's say, save game compatible) somewhere in-between SRM and CMOD? To rephrase the question, will mods (SRM, for example) mind if I change their number from e.g. 14.cat to 15.cat during the same save game?

I am asking all of this because I am trying to field a huge combination of mods, but SRM and CMOD are definitely two most important ones for me and I want to be sure I can actively keep updating them as needed.
markdeno
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Post by markdeno »

I have been swapping the new version of SRM and CMOD into their respective CAT/DAT sots without any compromise of saved games.
paulwheeler
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Post by paulwheeler »

Sinnerman264 wrote:A question regarding updating of mods... when paul releases a new version of this mod, is it possible to just replace old files and continue playing?

If that is possible, is it also possible to add a new mod (which is, let's say, save game compatible) somewhere in-between SRM and CMOD? To rephrase the question, will mods (SRM, for example) mind if I change their number from e.g. 14.cat to 15.cat during the same save game?

I am asking all of this because I am trying to field a huge combination of mods, but SRM and CMOD are definitely two most important ones for me and I want to be sure I can actively keep updating them as needed.
It is fine to just update the SRM or CMOD cat/dats and continue playing. There may occasionally be special instructions regarding not having certain ships in sector. These will be listed in the release notes.

As for adding a new mod, that entirely depends on the mod. However, no mod can ruin a save game. The game may say the save is corrupted but it isn't. Just revert back to your previous cat/dat configuration and the save will load.

The thing to do when adding a new mod is look in the mod thread and see if there are any files changed that conflict with other mods you have installed. You can only have one version of each file, so if two mods alter, for instance TShips, they will not be compatible. If there are no conflicts, back up your current cat/dat config, then if you have any problems you can revert back and load your saves.
orion84
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Post by orion84 »

edit: paul is faster than lightning! moving on......
***modified***
gienkov
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Post by gienkov »

How can I (if possible) update MOD Xtra Ship/Station Pack from 1.86 to 1.91?
X3: TC 2.5
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robalexhall
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Post by robalexhall »

I'm still looking for advice (dont hate me).

What do you guys think about a Tern with Setanta raiders (terran TP) for capturing?

The Teladi M7s are looking very nice for a do everything mining/trade base ship and I can keep my prized vidar and heavy hydra docked too.

Maybe I'll buy a logich for something nippier as an anti fighter frigate companion when I can stretch to it. It looks preferable to the cerberus.

I'm playing with litcubes mission changes so it would take me a long while to look for boron/paranid alternatives. I'm stuck with split, teladi,terran and argon.
Last edited by robalexhall on Mon, 14. Mar 11, 21:15, edited 1 time in total.

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