Suggestion: Please reconsider random ranges on ship Modification installation

[Jar B]

It has been also noted that if you find the correct ignition timing to be four degrees before top-dead-center, then you should be able to set it on every copy of quality product. The way tuning works now it is a miracle that even two out of thousand untuned Novas has same stats, let alone all.

Couldn't agree more. This also wouldn't suffer from the arbitrary stat choice my proposal would require.

[GCU Grey Area]

It is bad. Mods can only be applied against individual ships, one at a time, with player both being present on the same station and having to leg it to the workbench. The ship also has to be explicitly docked and told to resume its duties afterwards. I am not even taking into an account any kind of rerolls here - I would settle for the first roll for some of the basic mods that do not carry negative consequences with them.

Nope, it's a time investment & really not much of one. Longest part of it is often the walk from my ship to the modding bench (if available I do try to park in the nearest dock). For the most part I mod brand new ships which I've ordered to re-dock at the shipyard that built them before I get there. As soon as I do get there the entire batch can be modded in next to no time at all, each one takes just a few seconds. Then they get put to work. Results are definitely worth it, since I now have a fleet of freighters & miners all flying at least 50% faster in travel mode (& around 10-16% faster at base speed) than their unmodded counterparts. Even the delay in assigning them a job is more than compensated for by their much greater efficiency at hauling stuff long distances henceforth, so I need fewer of them.

It has been also noted that if you find the correct ignition timing to be four degrees before top-dead-center, then you should be able to set it on every copy of quality product. The way tuning works now it is a miracle that even two out of thousand untuned Novas has same stats, let alone all.

That sounds more like the final stage of factory tuning a standard product to ensure consistency; rather than after market tinkering specifcally intended to exceed those normal parameters, using replacement parts of distinctly dubious origin (get most of my mod parts from the debris field of exploded ships).

[jlehtone]

It has been also noted that if you find the correct ignition timing to be four degrees before top-dead-center, then you should be able to set it on every copy of quality product. The way tuning works now it is a miracle that even two out of thousand untuned Novas has same stats, let alone all.

That sounds more like the final stage of factory tuning a standard product to ensure consistency; rather than after market tinkering specifcally intended to exceed those normal parameters, using replacement parts of distinctly dubious origin (get most of my mod parts from the debris field of exploded ships).

You are right. I forgot that the mod parts have differing wear and tear. They are indeed shot to pieces before collection. That makes the difference.

[azaghal]

It is bad. Mods can only be applied against individual ships, one at a time, with player both being present on the same station and having to leg it to the workbench. The ship also has to be explicitly docked and told to resume its duties afterwards. I am not even taking into an account any kind of rerolls here - I would settle for the first roll for some of the basic mods that do not carry negative consequences with them.

Nope, it's a time investment & really not much of one.

It is not a time investment, it is a time waste due to lacking user interface. There are no useful gameplay elements present once you have decided to mod a bunch of ships with the same mod without caring what stats you get. It is just mindless clicking at that point - in a game which is supposedly about building up an empire composed of thousands of ships. Player's time is the most valuable resource of any game - because it is completely external to the game. It is not some kind of virtual abstraction, it is a "physical" manifestation and it is limited. So why waste it in this way for something that is a trivial operation and that could be countered with a better thought-out interface? I am not even taking into the account the random/gambling nature of this process, mind you - just pure ability to apply low level mods that are in abundance against a bunch of existing (or new) ships.

Longest part of it is often the walk from my ship to the modding bench (if available I do try to park in the nearest dock). For the most part I mod brand new ships which I've ordered to re-dock at the shipyard that built them before I get there. As soon as I do get there the entire batch can be modded in next to no time at all, each one takes just a few seconds. Then they get put to work. Results are definitely worth it, since I now have a fleet of freighters & miners all flying at least 50% faster in travel mode (& around 10-16% faster at base speed) than their unmodded counterparts. Even the delay in assigning them a job is more than compensated for by their much greater efficiency at hauling stuff long distances henceforth, so I need fewer of them.

By the time I have collected enough materials to apply the mods en-masse, I usually have built up quite a fleet already - in which case I want to apply the mods against the existing ships, not brand new ones. At that point the time waste and tedium become even worse - you need to select the ships from the map, order them to some nearby wharf or shipyard for docking, wait for all of them to dock, remember that you have issued the order while you probably go on to do something else, then get yourself over there to the bench, and start clicking the same button for every single ship. This does not even account for limited docking spots for large ships. Then you also have the scenario when you want to replace a particular mod - particularly when you have not had enough foresight to actually look up the meta around the mods outside of the game. As for the new ships - why not allow player to allocate mods for them while ordering them in the first place as well? At the end of the day, it is just another piece of equipment on the ship, no matter how you look at it.

Taking the above into the account, walking to the bench is really the shortest part of it when applying things en masse. And if you are doing ships one at a time (slowly building up the fleet, or wanting to strip the mission reward ships of highly valuable mods) - being unable to apply changes remotely means you need to stop whatever you are currently doing and leg it to destination wharf/shipyard - instead of, say ordering the change remotely while traveling.

As for benefits - nobody is denying the worthiness of applying the mods to the ships. People are simply challenging the mechanics, interface, and time waste around it. We can already automate mass collection of drops, and even have some form of thinking involved there (what ship to use, positioning, travel times etc), so why not extend this ability to operate on larger scale to utilising those collected drops as well?

To get back onto the original proposal, and somewhat related to applying changes en-masse or remotely - what if applying ship mods remotely would use fixed (probably more conservative) values, while applying them in person would let you use the randomisation system? This way you can get predictable results when you need/want them, but can also spend excessive time and effort to get the very best results? It could be even considered to add some "flavour" to the game (if we really have to) - "boss is a pro mechanic, he likes doing mods on his own ship personally".

Somewhat tangential to this discussion - maybe service crew could be used for applying changes in which case the success rates and values would depend on their skills?

[azaghal]

It has been also noted that if you find the correct ignition timing to be four degrees before top-dead-center, then you should be able to set it on every copy of quality product. The way tuning works now it is a miracle that even two out of thousand untuned Novas has same stats, let alone all.

That sounds more like the final stage of factory tuning a standard product to ensure consistency; rather than after market tinkering specifcally intended to exceed those normal parameters, using replacement parts of distinctly dubious origin (get most of my mod parts from the debris field of exploded ships).

You are right. I forgot that the mod parts have differing wear and tear. They are indeed shot to pieces before collection. That makes the difference.

They do? Where can I observe that statistic in the game? Can I somehow visually inspect the parts before I install them in the ship?

Cynicism aside... If this was an actual part of the game mechanics, it would maybe at least make some sense. Although I do not think this particular game system would need such an additional complication - people complaints would probably be even worse

Best regards,
Branko

[stooper88]

I'm personally not a fan of slot machine mechanics in general, especially for game aspects which apply broadly. With respect to the engine tuning analogy, X3 engines could be tuned at equipment docks simply through incremental investment. Players could readily deploy standardized fleets with "max tuned" engines by paying the associated costs. There was no artificial RNG gimmick and corresponding time sink involved.

The only RNG provision was the existence of Treasure Hunt missions which had the potential to uncover ships with varying degrees of "over-tuned" engines. These were commensurately rarer with their level of over-tuning, and the engines and tunings were non-transferable making these ships very prized (hence treasures). In that manner, there was still the potential thrill of "scoring" specially enhanced ships, but without the drudgery of RNG rolling for everyday or even specialized ship loadouts.

Returning to X4, as others have mentioned, the arguments in favor of the RNG mechanic tend to revolve around having surplus resources at hand to simply absorb poor RNG outcomes. Humble flexing aside, this completely ignores the interests of any player that wants to craft enjoyable modifications without having already power-played their way into mega empiredom. Consider how many common playthroughs involve recovering and tuning a destroyer or other player ship as a cornerstone of the starting strategy.

[GCU Grey Area]

By the time I have collected enough materials to apply the mods en-masse, I usually have built up quite a fleet already - in which case I want to apply the mods against the existing ships, not brand new ones.

Not so for me. Have usually gathered sufficient mods parts & other components long before I can afford to purchase my first L ship in an new game, so it's no bother to slap them on that first ship as soon as it rolls off the production line. Arguably modding that first freighter (or miner) to fly faster than it otherwise would is more important at that stage of the game than later on when I own more ships. However, by the time I get to the stage where I can afford to buy my freighters & miners in batches I'll also have automated the process of gathering parts, with salvage ships lurking at common battlefields, so again it's not difficult for me to mod them in bulk almost immediately after construction. For me it's an ongoing process throughout the game - almost all L or XL ships I own are modded, at least to some extent, as soon as they've been built. Don't mind in the slightest having to do this in person, indeed I do rather enjoy watching a fleet of brand new ships departing from a shipyard to go to their various assigned tasks, while the knowledge that I've just modded them to be significantly faster than their NPC counterparts also provides a fair amount of satisfaction. That satisfaction would be greatly lessened if mods were reduced to the level of standard equipment with fixed effects - then it would be no more interesting than choosing a mk2 piece of kit rather than mk1.

[ballti]

When you change "clik" finger, then you know that this thing is too good to stey in this state.

[azaghal]

By the time I have collected enough materials to apply the mods en-masse, I usually have built up quite a fleet already - in which case I want to apply the mods against the existing ships, not brand new ones.

Not so for me. Have usually gathered sufficient mods parts & other components long before I can afford to purchase my first L ship in an new game, so it's no bother to slap them on that first ship as soon as it rolls off the production line. Arguably modding that first freighter (or miner) to fly faster than it otherwise would is more important at that stage of the game than later on when I own more ships. However, by the time I get to the stage where I can afford to buy my freighters & miners in batches I'll also have automated the process of gathering parts, with salvage ships lurking at common battlefields, so again it's not difficult for me to mod them in bulk almost immediately after construction. For me it's an ongoing process throughout the game - almost all L or XL ships I own are modded, at least to some extent, as soon as they've been built. Don't mind in the slightest having to do this in person, indeed I do rather enjoy watching a fleet of brand new ships departing from a shipyard to go to their various assigned tasks, while the knowledge that I've just modded them to be significantly faster than their NPC counterparts also provides a fair amount of satisfaction. That satisfaction would be greatly lessened if mods were reduced to the level of standard equipment with fixed effects - then it would be no more interesting than choosing a mk2 piece of kit rather than mk1.

The main point I was making in the section that you have pulled the quote from is primarily about inability to select a whole bunch of ships, right-click on a wharf/shipyard, pick the "Ship modifications" option, and then select what mods should be installed (provided you have sufficient materials) - just as an example of what the functionality could look like. This is currently not possible in the game. This would be a QoL improvement over having to do each ship one by one. And it does not even require dropping the ability to mod ships one by one at the workbench - even with the current mechanics preserved. So, if you really like to do ships one by one and then watch them all fly out - no reason to artificially stop you from doing that. But for those of us that are not particularly excited with that prospect, this kind of addition would be very welcome. We already have that type of mass interface available for both purchasing new ships and upgrading existing ones. No reason not to integrate the mod mechanics into the process as well.

Best regards,
Branko

[Zaihbot]

I agree with OP.

Also this:

Consider, for example, a fighter with 3-4 forward guns all of the same type. It's currently almost impossible to mod them equally so as to have coordinated fire. Instead, they may all overheat at different times, reducing the damage by a significant amount over what could have been achieved.

What is also quite annoying are that there are many different mods which can have up to 6 possible modifiers but only 2, maybe 3 are randomly installed. (and some modifiers can make the stats worse)
And the game doesn't even tell you what the possible modifiers are, so the player either has to install mods blindly or has to rely on third party tools which shows all possible modifiers, chances and values, for example https://www.qsna.eu/x4/modifications

Especially the weapon modifiers are annoying since they also have modifiers which increases mining efficiency, which you really don't need on your fighter.