Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

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Baconnaise
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by Baconnaise »

mr.WHO wrote: Tue, 11. Feb 25, 15:13
Baconnaise wrote: Tue, 11. Feb 25, 14:24 I'm firmly settled on the opinion that Ego lost the plot since CoH (amazing DLC).
Kindom End was solid and on par with Terran/Split DLC.
I can agree and say my generalization that included KE was a bit of a reach. KE adding Boron was good. Ship designs are superb. It also happened to carry some negative aspects. The lack of integration of the sectors into what I feel is more lore-friendly. It's also quite boring, as the Boron are tucked away in the corner of the map. The modules are another huge point of contention as they are incompatible with already-in-game assets. I'm still firmly in the camp of Split and CoH being the peak Egosoft DLC for X4. If I had to fold in X3 I would say Split/CoH(combined) were equal to or better than Terran Conflict which is quite the bar. I don't criticize Terran placement or lack of threats as with Boron since that is part of the lore and plot. It folds in a more clean logical way.
vvvvvvvv wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 11:26
Baconnaise wrote: Tue, 11. Feb 25, 14:24
db48x wrote: Tue, 11. Feb 25, 10:28 I don't intend to buy it either. I don’t like the idea of buying something just to “support the developer”. Release something excellent and new and I’ll buy it, but I agree that this just looks like a cash grab.
I am of a similar sentiment. I only bothered to grab Tides of Avarice and Timelines for mod compatibility. I greatly dislike these two DLCs among other changes. The new roadmap concerns me and frankly doesn't interest me. I'm firmly settled on the opinion that Ego lost the plot since CoH (amazing DLC).
I liked Avarice plot the most, because Curs and Dagobas felt like actual living beings for once, even with the reputation trap if you do things in a wrong order. Main reason to grab CoH is terran tech, I didn't enjoy their plot. KE gave me a literal headache. A 30 minute long lore dump delivered by incredibly enthusiastic high pitched squeaky voices that wouldn't shut up. That beacon placement mission was also one of the worst ones.
I did think the ToA missions or fluff weren't terrible. I didn't care for placement and other decisions like tides. The more handcrafted nature of stations as in Rebirth like the casino and tidebreak were neat. Salvaging felt like a tacked on addition or band-aid. Pirate DLC or at least the implication fell short on my expectations as again it felt tacked on like another Scaleplate Fallen Families or Hatikvah where they just get orphaned in an area and forgotten about.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by vvvvvvvv »

Baconnaise wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 14:13 I did think the ToA missions or fluff weren't terrible. I didn't care for placement and other decisions like tides. The more handcrafted nature of stations as in Rebirth like the casino and tidebreak were neat. Salvaging felt like a tacked on addition or band-aid. Pirate DLC or at least the implication fell short on my expectations as again it felt tacked on like another Scaleplate Fallen Families or Hatikvah where they just get orphaned in an area and forgotten about.
Well, I didn't have any expectation and wandered in to see what's even in the sector. Maybe hence the more positive impression. Just didn't expect to be a proper pirate in the first place.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by jlehtone »

How much there must be content to be worth to pay for as DLC?
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by TroubledRabbit »

SO... my last cents in the offtopic-ing.

The issue is deeper - one of the poster said 'egosoft lost the plot' somewhere in the X4 development. Well... I would said that 'the plot' was lost while XR development (beware: I am one of the few who actually liked the XR to some degree as a *different* game).

I understand perfectly the company struggle. They need to make profit and feed their employees as everybody else.

Still...

- 'piecemailing' races and areas (this started with XR but at least in that game it had got some sense) left me with a bad taste for a start,
- general 'half-arseness' is gut wrenching (e.g. ToA questline logic is broken, why Tidebreakers still punish themselves with cartel rules when cartel is defeated? and who smoked too much thinking that gazzillion fighters in one sector was the good idea?, what is the point of walking on lifeless, generic in 'thesameness' stations where you have not so much to do anyway (the casino is the worst offender)? if there is absolute need(is it?) of some rpg elements like crew 'levels' why you scrapped the XR system which actually had a bit of a sense (namely: different commanding officers with designed rules)? why you do not use 'time dilatation' feature (or you doing it wrong) to overcome inevitable bottlenecks which will happen no matter how powerful machine is running the game?, why so many overcomplicated systems in place in the name of 'realism' (I suppose) which you cannot properly deliver anyway? where the holy rule of KISS went? etc.), which I suppose is, at least partially, an effect of attempting to catch 100 bats at once with one hand. The 'crisis' - I would say - is just a symptome of general lack of development discipline and (maybe) some problem with management. I mean - if the Egosoft would be an indie company that 'mission creep' and 'feature frenzy' would be natural, but you are not. Yu know your s*t guys. Right?
- a lot of questionable design decisions along the way (too numerous to elaborate),
- and ofc. Grand Prix in 'terrible interface design' which is kind of your forte guys ;)
Spoiler
Show
- 'no boobs in space' - this is a serious oversight - there is no other reason to have 'walking NPCs'. Just think about possibilities of crossbreeding Teladi with Split, especially with closeups of the process. Such a missed opportunity to join Bioware etc.
//it is a sad joke actually
I have feeling that the dev. process lack a serious review element - a lot of stuff already in game should either land in the rubbish bin or in the redevelopment. There are areas suggesting serious lack of focus from the beginning or just focus lost in the process because a new golapost suddenly has arisen. And I perfectly understand that some of the Egosoft personnel after all these years may feel an urge to murder someone hearing 'X development'. I would.

It is a bad sign (for the X4 as a product) if when I want 'more of 'the X' I am returning to older titles (X3 series). And not because the newer product is unplayable on my ancient hardware (I can make it work and I am a veteran of 'having low and lower expectations') but because there is 'more and better of X' in 3 (even including their limitations) than 4. Some of the 'plot' was lost apparently, or maybe I am just old, grumpy and unable to follow the new and shiny.


Simply - if you like the yoda-quoting then actually make it. 'Do or not, there is no trying'.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by StoneLegionYT »

TroubledRabbit wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 19:26 SO... my last cents in the offtopic-ing.

The issue is deeper - one of the poster said 'egosoft lost the plot' somewhere in the X4 development. Well... I would said that 'the plot' was lost while XR development (beware: I am one of the few who actually liked the XR to some degree as a *different* game).

I understand perfectly the company struggle. They need to make profit and feed their employees as everybody else.

Still...

- 'piecemailing' races and areas (this started with XR but at least in that game it had got some sense) left me with a bad taste for a start,
- general 'half-arseness' is gut wrenching (e.g. ToA questline logic is broken, why Tidebreakers still punish themselves with cartel rules when cartel is defeated? and who smoked too much thinking that gazzillion fighters in one sector was the good idea?, what is the point of walking on lifeless, generic in 'thesameness' stations where you have not so much to do anyway (the casino is the worst offender)? if there is absolute need(is it?) of some rpg elements like crew 'levels' why you scrapped the XR system which actually had a bit of a sense (namely: different commanding officers with designed rules)? why you do not use 'time dilatation' feature (or you doing it wrong) to overcome inevitable bottlenecks which will happen no matter how powerful machine is running the game?, why so many overcomplicated systems in place in the name of 'realism' (I suppose) which you cannot properly deliver anyway? where the holy rule of KISS went? etc.), which I suppose is, at least partially, an effect of attempting to catch 100 bats at once with one hand. The 'crisis' - I would say - is just a symptome of general lack of development discipline and (maybe) some problem with management. I mean - if the Egosoft would be an indie company that 'mission creep' and 'feature frenzy' would be natural, but you are not. Yu know your s*t guys. Right?
- a lot of questionable design decisions along the way (too numerous to elaborate),
- and ofc. Grand Prix in 'terrible interface design' which is kind of your forte guys ;)
Spoiler
Show
- 'no boobs in space' - this is a serious oversight - there is no other reason to have 'walking NPCs'. Just think about possibilities of crossbreeding Teladi with Split, especially with closeups of the process. Such a missed opportunity to join Bioware etc.
//it is a sad joke actually
I have feeling that the dev. process lack a serious review element - a lot of stuff already in game should either land in the rubbish bin or in the redevelopment. There are areas suggesting serious lack of focus from the beginning or just focus lost in the process because a new golapost suddenly has arisen. And I perfectly understand that some of the Egosoft personnel after all these years may feel an urge to murder someone hearing 'X development'. I would.

It is a bad sign (for the X4 as a product) if when I want 'more of 'the X' I am returning to older titles (X3 series). And not because the newer product is unplayable on my ancient hardware (I can make it work and I am a veteran of 'having low and lower expectations') but because there is 'more and better of X' in 3 (even including their limitations) than 4. Some of the 'plot' was lost apparently, or maybe I am just old, grumpy and unable to follow the new and shiny.


Simply - if you like the yoda-quoting then actually make it. 'Do or not, there is no trying'.
I think X4 is doing great and it's doing better than ever before. A lot of issues is based on being an actual simulated universe it gets buggy and CBJ and whoever else programs is not the know it all of the universe. They hired someone with the new movement system and such. X4 has been financially doing better their team is growing that takes time to train / educate as well.

Overall I personally think their doing a great job. Yes there is things I like to see fixed, changed, etc. But then when I look for a game like X4 I keep remember oh right no such game exists...

They put a lot of money and time clearly in this update, so this DLC is to help with that. Not only that we are aware of a project X-26 I assume it's going be a big DLC, or something pretty big with X Universe. My guess is that it's slated for 2026 and will be for X4. I can't tell if this will be say a reboot / big change, or just one giant DLC. But whatever their working on my theory is it's leading up to something massive in prob Q3/Q4 of 2026... So I think this why they like to if possible do 2-3 small DLC's to help fund updates / work in between while working on this major project...

Egosoft, is not perfect... But for what they do I will always back them up as they have never let me down. They always come through even if it takes time. Right now X4 to me is amazing and like I said can be better, but 99% of games I touch now can be and will never be, but at least with X4 I know Egosoft will continue making something amazing.

PS: X-26 is based on my own speculation, there is no facts, etc there besides I think we know it comes in 2026 if it happens on schedule.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by StoneLegionYT »

jlehtone wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 19:24 How much there must be content to be worth to pay for as DLC?
People will always hate me for this. The Base Game Update + DLC is in my books what I count. One helps pay for the other and if one did not exist the other does not exist as well. They could be jerks and force everyone to buy the DLC for the new 5 sectors, even for the new upgrades, you name it. But instead it's always part of the base game and that my friend is why I always based it's value on it's worth in a whole. Though sometimes I forget this and other times I worry how others might see it.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by Raptor34 »

StoneLegionYT wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 21:46
jlehtone wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 19:24 How much there must be content to be worth to pay for as DLC?
People will always hate me for this. The Base Game Update + DLC is in my books what I count. One helps pay for the other and if one did not exist the other does not exist as well. They could be jerks and force everyone to buy the DLC for the new 5 sectors, even for the new upgrades, you name it. But instead it's always part of the base game and that my friend is why I always based it's value on it's worth in a whole. Though sometimes I forget this and other times I worry how others might see it.
Heh. Like I said no one complains when Egosoft gave us free new ships.
Bug fixing should be free of course, but company's are under no obligation to give you free new content.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by db48x »

CBJ wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 12:24 If you don't want to buy it then that's also OK, but please don't accuse us of shady practices!
Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that it is a fraud, only that it is cynical.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by LameFox »

TroubledRabbit wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 19:26 - 'piecemailing' races and areas (this started with XR but at least in that game it had got some sense) left me with a bad taste for a start,
Given the state of the game at launch, I always had the impression they simply could not complete it otherwise. Even features like player owned shipyards weren't in yet.

For better or worse, X3 was a much simpler game in some ways. Ships were slow to fly around, models had only exteriors, physical landing gear wasn't needed, nor NPCs that walk around. That this approach of adding what were core things slowly over time began with the more ambitious style of game probably isn't coincidental.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by vvvvvvvv »

StoneLegionYT wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 21:44 I think X4 is doing great and it's doing better than ever before. A lot of issues is based on ...
I is doing "okay", not "great". You know how it is advertised in one of the youtube videos? "A spacesim you never heard of".

A good portion of the game is based on rebirth. This becomes obvious only after you play rebirth. So, given that the game was built from X Rebirth, devs did good job recovering. But there's a HUGE room for improvement. That's why it is just "okay".
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by Feloidea »

db48x wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 04:32
CBJ wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 12:24 If you don't want to buy it then that's also OK, but please don't accuse us of shady practices!
Kindly do not put words in my mouth. I did not say that it is a fraud, only that it is cynical.
First of all, take a slice of your own advice and not put words in other people's mouths. He didn't say anything about fraud either.
Secondly, the term you used ("cash grab") is very much negatively connotated with unfairness and unethical practices, so it's far from unreasonable to equate such a term to "shady practices" (the words CBJ actually used, you even quoted them directly). If you take umbrage at him asking you to not accuse them of doing such things, then I would suggest you not accusing Egosoft of that thing.

You should take a breather and reflect on what you actually wrote as compared to what you may have wanted to express.

But that's the last I'll say on this matter because I don't intend to sidetrack the discussion down the road to something unconstructive.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by Baconnaise »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 18:42
Baconnaise wrote: Wed, 12. Feb 25, 14:13 I did think the ToA missions or fluff weren't terrible. I didn't care for placement and other decisions like tides. The more handcrafted nature of stations as in Rebirth like the casino and tidebreak were neat. Salvaging felt like a tacked on addition or band-aid. Pirate DLC or at least the implication fell short on my expectations as again it felt tacked on like another Scaleplate Fallen Families or Hatikvah where they just get orphaned in an area and forgotten about.
Well, I didn't have any expectation and wandered in to see what's even in the sector. Maybe hence the more positive impression. Just didn't expect to be a proper pirate in the first place.
Fair and likely correct take right there. I also get salty over the lack of corporations so if the attempt were made I would likely get my hopes up only to be dashed.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by TroubledRabbit »

@StoneLegion

1st - [...] A lot of issues is based on being an actual simulated universe it gets buggy [...]

this is somewhat lame excuse, though the actual debate on simulations would be long and full of scary mathematics, so lets be simplistic. If you are making an attempt to create a simulation (of whatever), you do this within the limits of selected parameters and presimulate the possibilities (such as expected computing power (banal), used model of objects and interactions, crucial values to simulate (you cannot, neither should try to simulate 'everything') etc.) This is matter of choice done at the primary project design phase (exactly the moment when most of the best ideas lands in the rubbish bin or in the box labelled 'maybe later', and this is ofc. a cycle filling both with time). Then you make simplistic model and build upon that, the actual implementation will vary ofc. Most of the glaring problems with the game as a simulation looks like modelling done wrong (overcomplication) and very problematic priorities (you wanna be Civilization?, maybe The Sims in Space?, Imperialism - Galaxy Edition? Space Tycoon? etc. and which design is a *priority*?). You do not need 'actual simulation' (that's a deadly wish - permutations will kill your model), you need illusion of simulation good enough to be convincing and interactible - this is a game, not an implementation of orbital traffic problems on which lifes of millions depends. And lets be serious, there is not so much to 'simulate' anyway, scalling is the problem, not complexity (which might be reduced case by case and ofc. the game does that all the time, otherwise it would not work at all).

2nd I do not know if I still be around in 2026, so... that's not relevant for me.

3rd I am not sure if 'going well financially' is a valid argument in this particular discussion. I suppose that some form of lootboxes would increase revenue for the company, just like using any arsinistic move from the EA's box of wonders. It's good that company is doing well, but we are not reviewing Egosoft budgeting and accounting. If the 'doing well' should be used as an argument, the game and company should implement 'boobs in space' right now. Porn sells well that would skyrocket the revenue, I bet. (and the NPCs models would have some actual use).

@LameFox

[...] Given the state of the game at launch, I always had the impression they simply could not complete it otherwise. Even features like player owned shipyards weren't in yet. [...]

Priorities gone wrong? How much money, effort and time went into e.g. 'station walking' (including modelling, animating etc. NPCs) which could be redirected into mentioned 'shipyards' (or anything else)? Making anything is a process of choosing something over something else, you never have unlimited resources and infinite time.

We had that kind of deliberation during 6.x beta. I would say that a lot of priorities went into wrong directions.

The fundamental question: 'what is the core experience expected from 'the X' game?' ' was answered wrong in many cases and with that, a lot of investment went into wrong directions (e.g. station walking sim to keep that one example at hand). Anyone may easily answer that question for themselves using its modified, reversed version: 'what could I cut from the X4 while saving the core experience?'.

Having an active modding community and long line of products makes that process easier because you have got focus groups for free (e.g. what is modded in? what is modded out?), experience in making stuff and you do not need to reinvent wheel and fire. Taking the X3 alone there was (and still is) so many talented and dedicated people on whose work you can conceptually build really 'high' (exploration, which I maybe see in X4, who knows?, civilian and planetary economies (which would make terraforming meaningful), real research (e.g. mk3, mkX weapons and ships) etc.). Instead you have got very shallow pond with mediocre illusion of being 'wide' in which ships still are unable to keep formation (after all updates this still not work, and new flying model will make new mess) and idea of screening does not exists (because the whole class of ships (frigates) does not exists properly. You still have spacefaring civilizations unable to comprehend the idea of traffic security and leaving free flying rocks right around gates and on commonly used routes or building a stations *inside* the asteroids' blob (guys, why you just not despawn garbage in predefined areas when player enters the sector?), docking/undocking is still prone to disaster , though solvable easily*, etc.

Such stuff as sketched above leads to the inevitable 'half-arsing' simply because you cannot do everything well enough and you lose focus. That I call a set of questionable decisions and priotites set wrong. At this stage it's mostly irreparable, though (however there are problems which can be easiy solved) - and obviously the company expect returns from investments done no matter how problematic they are (because you won't get the time and effort spent back, anyway).

OK. enough grumpiness.

TR out.


* e.g. deploying/retrieving ships from a moving carrier (even Raptor) can be solved by creating predefined deploy/approach lanes on which ships does not 'fly' by themselves but are autopiloted (player can always break) and just teleported in/out in critical situation. The same with docks. This is how actually autopiloted docking/undocking works in X3. You do not need reinvent the wheel, just reimplement existing solution.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by vvvvvvvv »

TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 17:39 How much money, effort and time went into e.g. 'station walking' (including modelling, animating etc. NPCs) which could be redirected into mentioned 'shipyards' (or anything else)?
At this point, however, it is part of the core experience and is one of the major reasons why I play X4 and not Farnham's Legacy or OOLite.

Worth bringing up that it was "inherited" from rebirth. Meaning good chunk of the system was already there.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by TroubledRabbit »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 18:02
TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 17:39 How much money, effort and time went into e.g. 'station walking' (including modelling, animating etc. NPCs) which could be redirected into mentioned 'shipyards' (or anything else)?
At this point, however, it is part of the core experience and is one of the major reasons why I play X4 and not Farnham's Legacy or OOLite.

Worth bringing up that it was "inherited" from rebirth. Meaning good chunk of the system was already there.
I have made most of these post about the bad project's design. 'station-walking' was one of the 1st XR features to be modded out (the irony is that XR stations were full of life and interesting design ideas in comparisation with their plastic, lifeless X4 version). For a reason. And bear in mind that the XR was Egosoft attempt to make 'somewhat-RPG', quest driven game (and because of that so many players expecting 'X3 just better' were so dissapointed), so the whole 'empire' part (including fleets) was practically missing and unrewarding.

The 'core experience' is connected with the product identity. For a completely new players (knowing only X4 and maybe stubling on XR on sale) that may be part of their 'core experience' because poor things do not know better. However, if you want to check what actually *is* the core value/experience of e.g. game, you need to remove in sequence particular elements and ask: 'does the game is still X?'. If you'd remove the whole 'station stuff' and stay with the 'comms' you are losing... nothing really. You are actually gaining a lot (from wasted time on walking, to disk space etc.). It is the banal case of something looking 'good' in commercial but pointless and awful in an actual game.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by vvvvvvvv »

TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 18:31 The 'core experience' is connected with the product identity. For a completely
I started with X3: Reunion, played through TC and AP. I strongly prefer X4. Because station walking for me is important feature that I want to see in a space sim. An avatar. It is a very important feature, and no, I'm not joking.

Core experience is not set in stone, and is a matter of opinion. Given that X4 has been released in 2018, I would say by now station walking is a part of it. Additionally some of the competitors do not provide those features to the same extent. Elite dangerous does not let you walk on flying ships, does not let you pilot capitals, and does not let you build stations.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by TroubledRabbit »

vvvvvvvv wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 18:54
TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 18:31 The 'core experience' is connected with the product identity. For a completely
I started with X3: Reunion, played through TC and AP. I strongly prefer X4. Because station walking for me is important feature that I want to see in a space sim. An avatar. It is a very important feature, and no, I'm not joking.
Case of 'the beauty in the eye of beholder'.

That's your experience and it is completely fine. IF so - I would argue that 'The Sims in Space' part of design is not half-arsed but less than quarter-arsed, so to speak. For a player wanting to have such an experience, this experience is seriously lacking in depth. As a developer if you wanna make 'Sims in Space' (or some lighter version of 'immersion' wthout rolling into 'press X to Jason!') focus on making it, make meaningfull interactions, interesting and non repetitive and bland as they are now environments, create convincing illusion of life going on, offer a player something do *do* while on station, etc. FOcus on that and do it right. Or don't and focus elsewhere. There is whole new big rabbithole of potential to explore and develop with 'station life' and 'ship life'. Instead you have got... well.
And do not worry. It is here to stay. Bad decisions tends to stick.

I wonder - if before project started (it was around late XR development I suppose) Egosoft would make a survey with question, for example:
"what is the most important to you in the new game' I doubt that 'stationwalk' would get priority.

ED is a different product with different aims and barely comparable identity.
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by vvvvvvvv »

TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 19:12 That's your experience and it is completely fine. IF so - I would argue that 'The Sims in Space' part of design is not half-arsed but less than quarter-arsed, so to speak. For a player wanting to have such an experience, this experience is seriously lacking in depth.
While there are ways to improve it, I like what there already is, and would not want it removed.

For more immersive experience, there's Star Citizen, and everybody knows how that one went.

Labelling it as sims in space is incorrect, as this is not what this is about. A player typically wants to leave an impact on the world. Your avatar, your ship, your interior, it is not about simulating social dynamics, but about leaving that mark. That this is your experience and your only. Ability to change the logo, your name, or default paint job serves the same purpose. And when you walk through station you've built it is "Look upon my works" moment. A culmination of your actions that mattered. It is an important part of the experience.

An example of that would be Saints Row. This game has massive customization abilities. It is not Sims.
TroubledRabbit wrote: Thu, 13. Feb 25, 19:12 "what is the most important to you in the new game' I doubt that 'stationwalk' would get priority.
That happens because people often do not know that they want a feature until they experience it.
Like, could you ever imagine standing on a platform of a capital ships while it flies? In a space game? In year 2000?
It was unthinkable. Because it was unthinkable, it was not ever considered as possible. Because it was never considered as possible, people would not have requested it.

To begin even consiering this feature, you'd need to play X rebirth. Where you could stand on the same reused landing pad and see OTHER capitals fly by as your ship moves. I do not recall another game where this was a thing at the time.

That was a massive WOAH moment.

There is inertia. There are features you do not know you want until you experience them. On example of that would be loading screen. Again. Take someone from 1990-2000 and ask. "Would you like to have no loading screens between location". The response you'd get likely would be along the lines of... "Uh, I do not know, as long as it doesn't take too long it doesn't matter I guess? So it is not important?". Then you experience what a seamless world is like (say, Gothic I). Seamless loading was again introduced in Rebirth and was inherited by X4. Going to old approach after that is difficult. For the record I distinctly recall sitting in one sector in X3:R to control my empire, because I wasn't fond of. That's another practical example of "feature you want, but don't know it yet". Because if you ask people who used to play with streamed loading "Hey, do you want loading screen at every sector" NOW, I'd expect the answer to be "No".
TroubledRabbit
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by TroubledRabbit »

You are speaking about singular player experiences (you have right to do so as anybody else) but this is devolving into discussion about 'better pears or rather apples'. I am addressing the design and development issues. This is not the same.

It is not about 'what I like in this particular game's version' e.g. 'I like to walk on my generic, always the same stations' interiors I cannot interact mostly with, nor change in any way, for no reason whasoever, but this makes me WHOAH' while I say 'this is pointless waste of time and resources I would be happy to get ride of'. The same with NPCs as actual models (which being set of a few generic and ugly models you cannot even make to wear dresscode of *your company*, that's the reach of your 'impact' more or less) etc.

While you love to stand on your empty, lifless station, I would be happy to have (at least) ability to *SKIP!*. The low level response on that topic nowadays is indeed an inertia and resignation - during the XR days the 'stationwalking' was overwhemingly hated (just like idiotic 'scanning' which we pointlessly inherited from XR) and modded out. And - as I said before - stations were more interesting, more livable and generally prettier than in X4. The main update is their actual modularity and almost free placement (though the mystery of making the metal texture has disappeared apparently since X3), everything else is actually a downgrade.

I am addressing the issue of overstretching resources - attempting to archive concurrent and often questionable goals a lot of which seemingly not thought through enough (but done anyway) with inevitable mediocre results everywhere. Focused approach (whatever the designed goal would be) would be simply better overall.

'so say we all' ;)
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StoneLegionYT
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Re: Devs please read! | An Old Dog that doesn't like the new tricks

Post by StoneLegionYT »

@TroubledRabbit at this point you sound like you be better off finding another game you enjoy. Sounds like this is just not one for you. Maybe make your own game since you have all the answers. I like to actually try out such an idea. Give me a buzz once it's out.

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