What use is boarding strength?

[jlehtone]

... scrounging for advanced electronics ...

Been there, done that. With MORTs, not auto-traders, without any "infra". And "that" being both jump and terraforming BHS. Granted, that is not the way if you look for instant gratification.

And if so... The boarding aspect of the game stops being any kind of sensible way to gain ships - so you either do it just for fun or for specifics of grabbing a Xenon H.

Isn't boarding always for fun? Is something less sensible, if you do it via a cunning plan?

[GCU Grey Area]

So... I have not yet gotten into the terraforming parts in any of my saves so far, but... Just looking at the teleportation requirements for the HQ, at that point you are most likely going to have insane amounts of money and infrastructure anyway (scrounging for advanced electronics is major pain in general without it)?

Nope, no insane amounts of money or infrastructure at that stage of the game for me. Still very early game where I'm dirt poor & the bulk of my income is derived from mission rewards, which tends to be spent almost immediately. Essential early game purchases with those mission rewards are blueprints for Adv Electronics production (& everything else necessary for that supply chain), so I can build around a dozen self-sufficient AE modules at my HQ. That's sufficient to make my HQ jump capable in a sensible timeframe.

And if so... The boarding aspect of the game stops being any kind of sensible way to gain ships - so you either do it just for fun or for specifics of grabbing a Xenon H.

I tend to do boarding because I'm being paid to do it - I do it for the money & sometimes the factions will throw in other stuff as an additional incentive (e.g. weapon mods). Not generally interested in the ship itself. More often than not I'll immediately sell it to an enemy of the faction I just stole it from, so they'll shoot at that (rather than me) while I run away from the police. SCA are my main clients, though boarding can also appear as an objective in some guild mission chains.

[Nanook]

... SCA are my main clients, though boarding can also appear as an objective in some guild mission chains.

Boarding missions are also offered by the factions, who claim the target is some kind of criminal. I just completed stealing a Teladi Heron E at the request of a random Argon mission. My rep initially dropped 8 points with the Argon (it was in their space) but upon completion I received the ship, 1,000,000+ credits, and a rep gain of +2 over what it was before the mission. So just so everyone else knows, it doesn't have to be SCA or some guild mission.

[stooper88]

Boarding missions are also offered by the factions, who claim the target is some kind of criminal. I just completed stealing a Teladi Heron E at the request of a random Argon mission. My rep initially dropped 8 points with the Argon (it was in their space) but upon completion I received the ship, 1,000,000+ credits, and a rep gain of +2 over what it was before the mission. So just so everyone else knows, it doesn't have to be SCA or some guild mission.

These are among my favorite missions. It works even better when the local sector faction and target ship faction are at war with each other as the sector security will ignore the target's distress call, thus preventing any reputation loss with that faction (and perhaps more importantly preventing any local security forces from turning hostile). If I can complete the capture without destroying any of the target's surface elements, escorts, drones, or laser towers, and prevent any distress beacon from escaping, then there's no rep loss from the target faction either.

On a few rare occasions, the target ship even had one or more (I've had up to three) S ships docked, which never launched or were already launched but subsequently docked without turning hostile. In turn, they became added bonuses to the mission rewards. So I definitely keep an eye out for these missions.

[GCU Grey Area]

... SCA are my main clients, though boarding can also appear as an objective in some guild mission chains.

Boarding missions are also offered by the factions, who claim the target is some kind of criminal. I just completed stealing a Teladi Heron E at the request of a random Argon mission. My rep initially dropped 8 points with the Argon (it was in their space) but upon completion I received the ship, 1,000,000+ credits, and a rep gain of +2 over what it was before the mission. So just so everyone else knows, it doesn't have to be SCA or some guild mission.

That's certainly an option, however in practice I rarely do the non-SCA/guild versions of the boarding missions. They don't seem to pay quite as well as the guilds & don't recall being offered weapon mods for completing them, just a cash reward.

[Nanook]

...
That's certainly an option, however in practice I rarely do the non-SCA/guild versions of the boarding missions. They don't seem to pay quite as well as the guilds ...

They don't. But then again, you can get them as soon as you start a new game, unlike guild missions (unless you do a Creative Custom start).

[GCU Grey Area]

...
That's certainly an option, however in practice I rarely do the non-SCA/guild versions of the boarding missions. They don't seem to pay quite as well as the guilds ...

They don't. But then again, you can get them as soon as you start a new game, unlike guild missions (unless you do a Creative Custom start).

Definitely a valid point. However, as mentioned in an earlier post, I favour early game HQ training for my marines. Means I can do my boarding with a personally flown frigate full of elites, rather than having to fly anything bigger (or manage multiple boarding ships) just to get sufficient crew capacity to make cheap expendable cannon fodder boarding tactics viable. Generally by the time I've got my marine training up & running I have sufficient rep for guild work, or have been to visit SCA's main base.

[Nanook]

...I favour early game HQ training for my marines...

I have a feeling this is a bit misleading to a lot of players, especially those who aren't long term veterans like yourself. "Early game" to most players probably means doing the Boso/HQ plot, building a few stations, setting up a few miners and traders and fighting off Kha'ak, Xenon and SCA marauders. What you're describing is probably, for many players, mid to late game activities.

[GCU Grey Area]

...I favour early game HQ training for my marines...

I have a feeling this is a bit misleading to a lot of players, especially those who aren't long term veterans like yourself. "Early game" to most players probably means doing the Boso/HQ plot, building a few stations, setting up a few miners and traders and fighting off Kha'ak, Xenon and SCA marauders. What you're describing is probably, for many players, mid to late game activities.

Not at all. Your description of early game activites fits well with what I'm doing at that stage of the game, it just has a strong focus on setting up my HQ. Early station building is entirely confined to my HQ, my first few miners & traders all work for my HQ, I spend a lot of my time personally defending those miners & traders from Kha'ak, Xenon & SCA because I don't own even a single warship to do that task for me. At this stage of the game I generally fly an M miner myself (because it's cheap) - hardly a mid-late game ship choice.

[Nanook]

I'm confused. How do you do "early game HQ training for [your] marines" ?? My early game marine training has nothing to do with the HQ.

[GCU Grey Area]

I'm confused. How do you do "early game HQ training for [your] marines" ?? My early game marine training has nothing to do with the HQ.

5 stage process:
1. Do research to make HQ jump-capable.
2. Buy station blueprints & build modules necessary to make the resources required for the jump.
3. Move HQ to either Black Hole Sun or Memory of Profit (no toxicity, radiation, etc to deal with on either of those planets).
4. Build Bubble City, Aerial Maze & Martial Arts School on the planet.
5. Train pilots & marines.
Primary focus of the early game for me these days is to achieve all of that within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game, usually funded almost entirely by mission rewards. Find those training facilities so fantastically useful that it's best to get them ASAP. From that point on every single one of my ships can be flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & I only need a comparatively small squad of 5* elite marines (i.e. an M ship's crew complement) to board almost any ship in the game.

[jlehtone]

The most expensive single item on that list is the blueprint for S/M Fabrication Bay, isn't it?

[GCU Grey Area]

The most expensive single item on that list is the blueprint for S/M Fabrication Bay, isn't it?

Yep - out of those 2-3 days planned for the entire process that single module always takes the best part of a day to save up for. My own fault I guess. Doing missions for the factions may be a reliable way of earning credits & definitely helps improve faction rep, but it's not exactly fast. There are probably much faster methods of raising the cash, however X4 is not a game I feel any particular need to rush through.

[Nanook]

I'm confused. How do you do "early game HQ training for [your] marines" ?? My early game marine training has nothing to do with the HQ.

5 stage process:
1. Do research to make HQ jump-capable.
2. Buy station blueprints & build modules necessary to make the resources required for the jump.
3. Move HQ to either Black Hole Sun or Memory of Profit (no toxicity, radiation, etc to deal with on either of those planets).
4. Build Bubble City, Aerial Maze & Martial Arts School on the planet.
5. Train pilots & marines.
Primary focus of the early game for me these days is to achieve all of that within the first 2-3 days of starting a new game, usually funded almost entirely by mission rewards. Find those training facilities so fantastically useful that it's best to get them ASAP. From that point on every single one of my ships can be flown by at least a 4* pilot (5* for L/XL warships) & I only need a comparatively small squad of 5* elite marines (i.e. an M ship's crew complement) to board almost any ship in the game.

I'm sorry, but that is NOT early game for me, and likely not for most players. I don't know how you play to get that many resources early in a game, but like I stated above, that's very misleading. It also sounds very boring, having to do so many missions, since most early game missions don't pay very much. I guess your definition of 'early game' is a lot different than mine.

[GCU Grey Area]

I'm sorry, but that is NOT early game for me, and likely not for most players. I don't know how you play to get that many resources early in a game, but like I stated above, that's very misleading. It also sounds very boring, having to do so many missions, since most early game missions don't pay very much. I guess your definition of 'early game' is a lot different than mine.

No intent to mislead, that is honestly how I play the early game. As for definition of game phases, early, mid or late game depends for me on how much stuff I have, the activities I engage in, amount & type of income, extent of my influence, etc:

Early Game = getting established. Just one station & <10 ships. Income is primarily derived from missions, which is spent almost immediately (unless I need to save for something). No influence to speak of; no warships, very little trade with the factions. Almost all resources & manufactured wares are retained for my own use.

Mid Game = extending my influence. Multiple stations, often scattered over a wide area of the map & lots of ships. Passive income from stations trading with NPC factions becomes increasingly important. Missions are mainly done for the additional incentives (e.g. ship mods) rather than the credits. Start deploying warships and/or build defence platforms to protect important sectors.

Late Game = no limitations (other than those I impose upon myself). Have sufficient resources & wealth to build or buy whatever I want, whenever I want it. Passive income is effectively infinite, it floods in far faster than I can possibly spend it. Missions are done simply for fun; have absolutely no need for the credits & ship mods (etc) are just flung on a huge pile of those I already own & have never used. High level of influence - entire factions go extinct or achieve dominance over a big chunk of the map, as a consequence of my activities (e.g. this is a recent map of my current Boron game).

As for whether missions are boring, that is subjective & will differ from player to player. I enjoy them because they give me something active to do while slow stuff occurs in the background (e.g station building). There are however other potential sources of income for those who do find them boring. I'd imagine that people whose primary income is derived from e.g. ship theft might be able to charge through the early game a fair bit faster than my usual glacial pace.

[jlehtone]

Pace is subjective. Functional Wharf within first 2-3 days may not feel "glacial" to everyone.
It is, however, most likely result of "playing actively" (rather than AFK SETA).

There are always those, who say: "If you ain't billionaire after first 12 hours, then you are doing it wrong."
And those, who restart after four days.


Pick your own pace. Focus on whatever you fancy. Just remember that there is no free lunch.

[GCU Grey Area]

Pace is subjective. Functional Wharf within first 2-3 days may not feel "glacial" to everyone.

'Functional' might be a bit of a stretch. Only makes drones (no blueprints for anything else) - it's essentially useless for other purposes. Setting up a proper wharf, in the sense of one that makes ships for player use or to sell to the factions, would take substantially longer due to the vast amount of cash required to pay for all the ship blueprints. I don't buy such things because I have a strong preference for buying ALL of my ships from NPC shipyards & wharves - keeps money relevant for longer & provides a strong incentive to keep those NPC shipyards & wharves well supplied. Enhances my enjoyment of the Trade side of the game, rather than diminishing it to the point of irrelevancy (as my 3.0 shipyard did).

[jlehtone]

Making terraforming drones was what did put Terrans in a pickle.

Getting just one ship blueprint can make the flood gates trickle. The "build modules necessary to make the resources required for the jump" is more than what I had when my PHQ did jump and aren't some of them supporting ship assembly too?


Closer to topic, doesn't player have about four options:

• No boarding
• Buy cheap cannon fodder until defenders die of old age
• Gather assets and run on stations until you have met and hired enough 3-star marines
• Gather assets until you have Martial Arts School

Additionally, you can tickle the mark (except Xenon H) until most of the crew has bailed out.

[stooper88]

Closer to topic, doesn't player have about four options:

• No boarding
• Buy cheap cannon fodder until defenders die of old age
• Gather assets and run on stations until you have met and hired enough 3-star marines
• Gather assets until you have Martial Arts School

Additionally, you can tickle the mark (except Xenon H) until most of the crew has bailed out.

For me, there was only one option as I was gunning to capture a Xenon H that I'd squirreled away in the corner of Hatikva's Choice I. I don't have the Martial Arts School, 3 star marines didn't cut it for the H, and throwing waves of cannon fodder (regardless of price) has no effect. So I had to board ships like a maniac to try to organically grow a suitable team.

That quest is now finally over!

I'd only managed to acquire ten elites: a single 4.6 star, four 4.3 star, and five 4 star marines. The rest of the team was padded out with six 3.6 star veterans. I realized this was nothing close to the maxed out boarding team of sixteen 5 star elites which was needed according to many accounts (and which even then would've had only a "50/50" chance of success). As I'd just finished a capture in neighboring Silent Witness, I figured why not give the H another shot with what I had? I completely expected the attempt to not just fail, but to fail swiftly and spectacularly.

But I just had to try and so I sent the bravest, stoutest marines I had off to their certain doom. Their reported boarding strength only totaled a mere 1321 against the vaunted 1600 boarding resistance of the "killbots" of the H. Yes, this was certain to falter considering my elite marines' tendencies to choke against mere service crew defenders. But to my surprise, the combat chatter was surprisingly perky, what with a female marine exclaiming "Yes, Yes Yes!" and "That's It!". I'd never heard those lines before and momentarily doubted my hearing. But then a male Paranid cheered, "Follow my Lead" and "Victory is ours!" These cheers were followed by other cries of seeming glory?

The boarding progress of the H is uniquely opaque in that there is no declining value for defending crew. So there's no indicator of the boarding party's progress, no way to gauge how close to or far off their efforts fell from success. All I could watch was the count of my attacking (or rather surviving) marines ticking down one by one, 16, 15, 14, 10. In previous, more foolhardy attempts, the number would almost immediately reach zero and the music would simply stop anticlimactically. This attempt was basically no different. The battle theme simply stopped and the attacking marines counter changed to zero.

But there was something different. The defending crew count shown on the boarding screen had also changed. It now showed a 10. And the ship that had previously been shone with red auras was now highlighted with green?!

Oh joyful day! Perhaps this is the RNG comeuppance for all the past struggles and sorrows against service crews. Whereas my teams suffered crushing losses when odds were overwhelmingly favorable, this time they somehow managed to seize victory when the odds were downright "impossible". The struggle is over. The H has been captured. I cannot adequately describe the satisfaction this brought, to finally behold the prize after all the hard fought battles and the countless ups and downs. I had to scrape every inch of my way to get here, but that whole journey made this all the more worthwhile and rewarding. All I can say is thank you Egosoft (and thank you my valiant marines). As a new X4 player, my path was an uncharted one. I only uncovered each new challenge and goal as I explored the universe, unlocking more of its secrets. And while my route hasn't been the most streamlined or optimal, it has been endlessly captivating. This is how and why I play the X series. You can say I too have been captured.

In the end, and perhaps equally shockingly, ten of the sixteen heroic marines survived their ordeal. They will all be immortalized and special honor and gratitude bestowed to the fallen, RIP.


I am still in disbelief and awe that's it's finally done.



TLDR:
So, to reiterate, what use IS boarding strength? Absolutely NONE (and in this case, maybe thankfully so).

[GCU Grey Area]

So, to reiterate, what use IS boarding strength? Absolutely NONE (and in this case, maybe thankfully so).

Reckon in this case it's absolutely vital. Can't see it going down during the boarding op, but does give you a number to aim for when training up your marines. It's the ONLY indication of how tough the fight's going to be (unlike conventional ships where you can scan the ship, check the precise quality of each marine that's defending it & compare them directly to your own). Without it who'd know what sort of attacking force is required to have even a remotely decent chance of success. Congratulations on your victory by the way, damn good feeling when you steal one of the tough targets.