Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

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AI factions should have

finite money, just like the player
4
12%
infinite money, as it is currently
29
88%
 
Total votes: 33

Nanook
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by Nanook »

No more mod talk in this forum, please.

And as to the original idea, pretty cool, for veteran players. However, I don't think a game as complex as X4 needs yet another layer of complexity added that would likely just frustrate and turn away prospective new players. And I doubt Egosoft does either. Best left to mods, IMO, and that other forum. :wink:
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flywlyx
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by flywlyx »

Nanook wrote: Fri, 1. Nov 24, 09:53 No more mod talk in this forum, please.

And as to the original idea, pretty cool, for veteran players. However, I don't think a game as complex as X4 needs yet another layer of complexity added that would likely just frustrate and turn away prospective new players. And I doubt Egosoft does either. Best left to mods, IMO, and that other forum. :wink:
X4 isn’t complex; it’s complicated. The rules are straightforward—no taxes, no competitive offers, no penalties for late delivery. It’s the sheer scale of the game that adds to the complicacy.

However, I don’t believe much improvement is possible at this stage. X4’s game design limits its potential for enhancement. I hope Egosoft can draw inspiration from other games to create a more complex economic model in X5.
Nanook
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by Nanook »

flywlyx wrote: Fri, 1. Nov 24, 14:29 ...
X4 isn’t complex; it’s complicated. The rules are straightforward—no taxes, no competitive offers, no penalties for late delivery. It’s the sheer scale of the game that adds to the complicacy.
...
Semantics, my dear fellow forum goer. :P It's actually a combination of both, otherwise Egosoft wouldn't be constantly adjusting the game's mechanics due to unforeseen results with such issues as pilot AI, reputation loss, etc. And to a new player, the difference is irrelevant, since it's a game that can be hard to get into. Making it more complicated (and complex) won't make it any easier for those players, and that's my whole point.
Have a great idea for the current or a future game? You can post it in the [L3+] Ideas forum.

X4 is a journey, not a destination. Have fun on your travels.
RubyRezal
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by RubyRezal »

The games I can think of where NPCs are given limited money always fail to balance properly. It tends to leave the player encumbered with valuable items they cant get rid of because vendors never have enough money. It's not fun.

Even then, it's the illusion of a "real" economy. Vendor accounts are simply refreshed over time and sold items are simply deleted. A realistically simulated economy with an absolutely finite amount of money across all NPCs is doomed to collapse without extensive and careful tuning. NPCs will maximize profit and the one with the most advantageous start will most likely dominate.


In X4, the factions having effectively infinite money doesn't matter. It's the trade goods that have value. It's the limited cargo space, transport time, station storage, and faction conflicts that limit and balance the economy (unless you're playing with mods).

X4 has galactic civilizations in effectively post-scarcity societies. We mine asteroid belts. We terraform planets. We don't worry about how much spacefuel our ships use or what powers our stations. We don't worry about the minutia of where every credit goes.
jlehtone
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by jlehtone »

RubyRezal wrote: Fri, 1. Nov 24, 15:51 X4 has galactic civilizations in effectively post-scarcity societies. We mine asteroid belts. We terraform planets. We don't worry about how much spacefuel our ships use or what powers our stations. We don't worry about the minutia of where every credit goes.
True, but what if some of would like to master the minutia?
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flywlyx
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Re: Infinite money for AI factions, thoughts?

Post by flywlyx »

Nanook wrote: Fri, 1. Nov 24, 15:40 Semantics, my dear fellow forum goer. :P It's actually a combination of both, otherwise Egosoft wouldn't be constantly adjusting the game's mechanics due to unforeseen results with such issues as pilot AI, reputation loss, etc. And to a new player, the difference is irrelevant, since it's a game that can be hard to get into. Making it more complicated (and complex) won't make it any easier for those players, and that's my whole point.
The system is too simplistic to handle varied situations: capital ships can't use their main weapons effectively, fighters can't distinguish between accidental and hostile fire, and NPCs lack any real tactical or strategic capabilities.
The difficulty in getting into the game stems from poor design choices, including insufficient instructions and a poorly designed UI.
X4 is an FPS/RTS/SIM hybrid. While the FPS interface is standard and functional, the RTS/SIM interface(map view) is overly complicated and unconventional. Egosoft might be aiming for a unique style, but it ends up being very user-unfriendly.

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