Split from "Why have you guys traded metal for plastic?" thread

[spankahontis]

The term is 'Argument from authority'. And if they were soo good like they say they are? Why aren't they working for Egosoft? Or in Devnet helping to fix the game. That's what bothers me personally about these particular arguments.

Another area that drives me nuts is when someone, outside and largely ignorant of the details, proceeds to tell those on the inside they should "just do X and Y to fix Z". Certainly in this world there are tons of incompetent people and poor practices in all areas of business and engineering. Thing is those conditions are not always without cause. There are, very likely, reasons that things developed as they did that involved deliberate choices from conditions only those on the inside know about. Something that I see as sub-optimal may have been the only possible choice among a series of less than optimal choices available. To presume that I can, from the outside, tell anyone how they should 'just do X and Y" seems unbearably presumptuous.

We all know that when people from outside our work environment critique it they are almost always off-base and propose 'solutions' that are unworkable for us and we bristle at that. Yet, somehow people seem born to do it to others even still.

People who've bought the game have a right to complain about the product they've bought not working; that's understandable.

Unsure if your critique is towards me or Midnight here?
But like I said, I've seen allot of companies with what you said that promise features and either don't deliver or give a half-arsed product that such questions are asked.
I wasn't questioning your ability as a developer with what i've said, but people do have a right as consumers to ask questions, their money gives them that right, doesn't make them ignorant.
Don't need to be an expert to know that giving their services to Devnet or being so good that Egosoft would be stupid not to acquire their services doesn't take a Brain surgeon to see that it would benefit everyone playing this game if it had more excellent Minds working on improving this game?

But despite that, I fail to see what Mid's argument seeks to accomplish here?
XML seems to be the industry standard for allot of game developers these days? If that's me practicing "ignorance" then i'm sure you can shed some light on that? All the best to you.

[photomankc]

The term is 'Argument from authority'. And if they were soo good like they say they are? Why aren't they working for Egosoft? Or in Devnet helping to fix the game. That's what bothers me personally about these particular arguments.

Another area that drives me nuts is when someone, outside and largely ignorant of the details, proceeds to tell those on the inside they should "just do X and Y to fix Z". Certainly in this world there are tons of incompetent people and poor practices in all areas of business and engineering. Thing is those conditions are not always without cause. There are, very likely, reasons that things developed as they did that involved deliberate choices from conditions only those on the inside know about. Something that I see as sub-optimal may have been the only possible choice among a series of less than optimal choices available. To presume that I can, from the outside, tell anyone how they should 'just do X and Y" seems unbearably presumptuous.

We all know that when people from outside our work environment critique it they are almost always off-base and propose 'solutions' that are unworkable for us and we bristle at that. Yet, somehow people seem born to do it to others even still.

People who've bought the game have a right to complain about the product they've bought not working; that's understandable.

Unsure if your critique is towards me or Midnight here?
But like I said, I've seen allot of companies with what you said that promise features and either don't deliver or give a half-arsed product that such questions are asked.
I wasn't questioning your ability as a developer with what i've said, but people do have a right as consumers to ask questions, their money gives them that right, doesn't make them ignorant.
Don't need to be an expert to know that giving their services to Devnet or being so good that Egosoft would be stupid not to acquire their services doesn't take a Brain surgeon to see that it would benefit everyone playing this game if it had more excellent Minds working on improving this game?

But despite that, I fail to see what Mid's argument seeks to accomplish here?
XML seems to be the industry standard for allot of game developers these days? If that's me practicing "ignorance" then i'm sure you can shed some light on that? All the best to you.

Not a critique of you certainly or really even midnight directly. Just a statement that people should step back and understand that choices made that you disagree with don't ALWAYS represent stupidity, laziness, or lack of care. There are often drivers that you aren't aware of that resulted in the outcomes and choices.

I've got vocal opinions on certain shortcomings in this game, but I **try** not to get into assuming the worst for why they exist.

[Alan Phipps]

I cannot see where this thread is going now in terms of X4 discussion. CBJ has said that the devs will not take further part in it and a general discussion about industry standards and tools does not belong here. Certainly there should be no picking apart or commenting upon other posters or their posting styles.

[spankahontis]

Another area that drives me nuts is when someone, outside and largely ignorant of the details, proceeds to tell those on the inside they should "just do X and Y to fix Z". Certainly in this world there are tons of incompetent people and poor practices in all areas of business and engineering. Thing is those conditions are not always without cause. There are, very likely, reasons that things developed as they did that involved deliberate choices from conditions only those on the inside know about. Something that I see as sub-optimal may have been the only possible choice among a series of less than optimal choices available. To presume that I can, from the outside, tell anyone how they should 'just do X and Y" seems unbearably presumptuous.

We all know that when people from outside our work environment critique it they are almost always off-base and propose 'solutions' that are unworkable for us and we bristle at that. Yet, somehow people seem born to do it to others even still.

People who've bought the game have a right to complain about the product they've bought not working; that's understandable.

Unsure if your critique is towards me or Midnight here?
But like I said, I've seen allot of companies with what you said that promise features and either don't deliver or give a half-arsed product that such questions are asked.
I wasn't questioning your ability as a developer with what i've said, but people do have a right as consumers to ask questions, their money gives them that right, doesn't make them ignorant.
Don't need to be an expert to know that giving their services to Devnet or being so good that Egosoft would be stupid not to acquire their services doesn't take a Brain surgeon to see that it would benefit everyone playing this game if it had more excellent Minds working on improving this game?

But despite that, I fail to see what Mid's argument seeks to accomplish here?
XML seems to be the industry standard for allot of game developers these days? If that's me practicing "ignorance" then i'm sure you can shed some light on that? All the best to you.

Not a critique of you certainly or really even midnight directly. Just a statement that people should step back and understand that choices made that you disagree with don't ALWAYS represent stupidity, laziness, or lack of care. There are often drivers that you aren't aware of that resulted in the outcomes and choices.

I've got vocal opinions on certain shortcomings in this game, but I **try** not to get into assuming the worst for why they exist.

That's cool mate, I agree.

I also share critique of aspects of this game, but the staff are good people, spoken to them enough over the years in this forum that they genuinely want to make the best space sim game out there.
Totally agree that slinging mud at developers doesn't help in the matter.

So much new technology comes out that I can only imagine how hard it must be to keep up with it, that certain flaws or bugs in drivers and engines that aren't foreseen can go about unnoticed until it's too late and can either be fixed or remedied to a point.