Only some ships have the rebuild=false, only large trade ships. Small trade ships and such continue to be rebuilt in a session.
Intressting. I noticed that behavior as i add missing weapon loadout macros for xenon ships and increase their number. The result was that the xenons destroyed nearly the entire argone trade fleet which was not rebuild during the session.
May my files are corrupted, but not only large ships have the rebuild=false tag. Nearly all civilian ships have it.
I will verfiy my files and take a look at it again.
No you are right, I forgot that I added in some new trade ships in FOCW that do not have this . I haven't looked at it in a while. They most likely did that because they want combat ships to be able to be built and players to build ships more easily. However, I remember when I originally was looking in to this, I had felt they did this because they had the factionlogic economy script which would order new trade ships (which had nothing to do with jobs) depending on what the economy needed but I could be wrong.
I found the subroutin with is responsible for stetting up a job_ship in the factionlogic econemy. You are right, the script is theoretically able to do it. But i'm thinking about some logical issus that can cause the job_ship to fail. I can not find the definiation auf request_job_ship, its overwritten by some md scripts for some reasons, maybe to bypass some checks, but it looks like it's hardcoded.
My thoughts:
If jobs.xml and the faction logic are using the same function to build ships... there can be some issues. What if the function checks are based on the jobs.xml file to prevent the factionlogic from flooding the universe with traders for example. This mean the function will take the params and checks if is the maximum galaxy quote is fulfil for this job, canceling the job_ship in this case. The same checks will also prevent any build of a ship with the rebuild=false attribute. If it is programmend this way, the factionlogic won't be able to build the tradeship as long as the rebuild=false tag exists.
I have come to believe that they intentionally shut down a lot of the features related to the war aspect of the game on purpose. It is clear that it just isn't working or it just doesn't function yet. There are several issues which need to be addressed and I am thinking that they are working on it now and maybe didn't have good solutions for it at launch or not enough time. One of the big things is performance and there are others too.
Intressting. I noticed that behavior as i add missing weapon loadout macros for xenon ships and increase their number. The result was that the xenons destroyed nearly the entire argone trade fleet which was not rebuild during the session.
May my files are corrupted, but not only large ships have the rebuild=false tag. Nearly all civilian ships have it.
I will verfiy my files and take a look at it again.
No you are right, I forgot that I added in some new trade ships in FOCW that do not have this . I haven't looked at it in a while. They most likely did that because they want combat ships to be able to be built and players to build ships more easily. However, I remember when I originally was looking in to this, I had felt they did this because they had the factionlogic economy script which would order new trade ships (which had nothing to do with jobs) depending on what the economy needed but I could be wrong.
I found the subroutin with is responsible for stetting up a job_ship in the factionlogic econemy. You are right, the script is theoretically able to do it. But i'm thinking about some logical issus that can cause the job_ship to fail. I can not find the definiation auf request_job_ship, its overwritten by some md scripts for some reasons, maybe to bypass some checks, but it looks like it's hardcoded.
My thoughts:
If jobs.xml and the faction logic are using the same function to build ships... there can be some issues. What if the function checks are based on the jobs.xml file to prevent the factionlogic from flooding the universe with traders for example. This mean the function will take the params and checks if is the maximum galaxy quote is fulfil for this job, canceling the job_ship in this case. The same checks will also prevent any build of a ship with the rebuild=false attribute. If it is programmend this way, the factionlogic won't be able to build the tradeship as long as the rebuild=false tag exists.
You don't need jobs.xml to build ships though. They can easily just build a ship by using the tags to build whatever ship they want. I don't think it matters if jobs.xml has a rebuild tag or not. My opinion is that they wanted a certain amount of trade ships when the game is first created to fill out the universe and economy and then over time build what was necessary to ensure that shipyards/wharfs weren't getting too many orders and perhaps other reasons too (like letting the player get into a market, etc.)
No you are right, I forgot that I added in some new trade ships in FOCW that do not have this . I haven't looked at it in a while. They most likely did that because they want combat ships to be able to be built and players to build ships more easily. However, I remember when I originally was looking in to this, I had felt they did this because they had the factionlogic economy script which would order new trade ships (which had nothing to do with jobs) depending on what the economy needed but I could be wrong.
I found the subroutin with is responsible for stetting up a job_ship in the factionlogic econemy. You are right, the script is theoretically able to do it. But i'm thinking about some logical issus that can cause the job_ship to fail. I can not find the definiation auf request_job_ship, its overwritten by some md scripts for some reasons, maybe to bypass some checks, but it looks like it's hardcoded.
My thoughts:
If jobs.xml and the faction logic are using the same function to build ships... there can be some issues. What if the function checks are based on the jobs.xml file to prevent the factionlogic from flooding the universe with traders for example. This mean the function will take the params and checks if is the maximum galaxy quote is fulfil for this job, canceling the job_ship in this case. The same checks will also prevent any build of a ship with the rebuild=false attribute. If it is programmend this way, the factionlogic won't be able to build the tradeship as long as the rebuild=false tag exists.
You don't need jobs.xml to build ships though. They can easily just build a ship by using the tags to build whatever ship they want. I don't think it matters if jobs.xml has a rebuild tag or not. My opinion is that they wanted a certain amount of trade ships when the game is first created to fill out the universe and economy and then over time build what was necessary to ensure that shipyards/wharfs weren't getting too many orders and perhaps other reasons too (like letting the player get into a market, etc.)
Yes, you are right. I have tested the script and it places ship build orders like desired. Sorry for my misunderstanding. I just getting familiar with the mds script provided by the game for a week.
Edit: I have to edit my post because i find out how it works. The factionlogic economy can build ships, definde by job.xml. The function 'search' the job.xml to find a job match given as param to the function. If the ship is defined at the jobs.xml it will take the attributes to build a macro which is provided to the job_helper logic to place the build order at the shipyard. The rebuild='false' just say the logic not to rebuild the ship on destruction. That mean the ship stayes destroyed, but the factionlogic economy can place a new build order if there is agian a open order for wares and it can not find a ship to solve it.
Last edited by I(kzorn101 on Sat, 12. Jan 19, 23:56, edited 2 times in total.
Thecrippler wrote: ↑Fri, 11. Jan 19, 20:20
warning if you start a new game play don't expect to have some ships mining or trading when you get some $$$
this is more a late game mod or for the players who like to roleplay
Thecrippler wrote: ↑Fri, 11. Jan 19, 20:20
warning if you start a new game play don't expect to have some ships mining or trading when you get some $$$
this is more a late game mod or for the players who like to roleplay
What?
This works fine even with a new game, you just need to provide resources by trading to fill in gaps which is a good thing. Of course I use it with my own mod which adds even more stuff going on and it is working just fine. Although, the conquest mechanic is still a work in progress overall. Even with this, the "war" is a problem. This only adds in the macros for defense stations which may move the war along but there are a lot of issues with the war that need to be fixed by egosoft.
BlackRain wrote: ↑Sat, 12. Jan 19, 23:48
No problem, I just have quite a bit of experience with it since I modded for Rebirth. X4 has a lot of new stuff too so I might be wrong now and then.
Sorry off topic slightly, are the XR Mission Director pages on the wiki (under XR section) mostly valid, a good starting point, or to avoid until this information and the changes added to the X4 section?
BlackRain wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 03:29
This works fine even with a new game, you just need to provide resources by trading to fill in gaps which is a good thing. Of course I use it with my own mod which adds even more stuff going on and it is working just fine. Although, the conquest mechanic is still a work in progress overall. Even with this, the "war" is a problem. This only adds in the macros for defense stations which may move the war along but there are a lot of issues with the war that need to be fixed by egosoft.
FWIW, I locally wrote a quick MD script to periodically check for defense stations and force the build storage owner to match the station and so far that has had the intended effect without obvious bugs. Haven't had much success fixing the AI attacking defense stations, however.
shealladh wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 06:51
Sorry off topic slightly, are the XR Mission Director pages on the wiki (under XR section) mostly valid, a good starting point, or to avoid until this information and the changes added to the X4 section?
I don't remember anything being inaccurate offhand, so it should be fine to use. Most of the X4 specific aspects are new actions, which aren't really covered in that doc anyway, you're supposed to extract and reference the schema files.
Mysterial wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 07:29
I don't remember anything being inaccurate offhand, so it should be fine to use. Most of the X4 specific aspects are new actions, which aren't really covered in that doc anyway, you're supposed to extract and reference the schema files.
Cheers, digging through that as we speak.
Just compiling a Manual of sorts and want to have a section for the Mission Director information as it become clearer
im running my second game with this mod now with 13h gametime... i dont see any faktion building more or less stations then else... there are no changes in the reputaions also...
Adyn wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 12:13
im running my second game with this mod now with 13h gametime... i dont see any faktion building more or less stations then else... there are no changes in the reputaions also...
There won't be any changes in reputations between factions, those are already set. As for faction building, they definitely will build but you have to locate the stations as they build them in weird places but there are still problems stopping things from progressing well.
Adyn wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 12:13
im running my second game with this mod now with 13h gametime... i dont see any faktion building more or less stations then else... there are no changes in the reputaions also...
There won't be any changes in reputations between factions, those are already set. As for faction building, they definitely will build but you have to locate the stations as they build them in weird places but there are still problems stopping things from progressing well.
=) ... this game realy have a lot of potential - but im wondering why it isnt taged as beta in steam. so many gamebreaking bugs or other misses - after 186h of testing and starting from nothing only to see after 10-20h there is the next gamebreaker, i will take a break from it.
thank you! and all other moders for all the hard work!
Adyn wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 12:13
im running my second game with this mod now with 13h gametime... i dont see any faktion building more or less stations then else... there are no changes in the reputaions also...
There won't be any changes in reputations between factions, those are already set. As for faction building, they definitely will build but you have to locate the stations as they build them in weird places but there are still problems stopping things from progressing well.
=) ... this game realy have a lot of potential - but im wondering why it isnt taged as beta in steam. so many gamebreaking bugs or other misses - after 186h of testing and starting from nothing only to see after 10-20h there is the next gamebreaker, i will take a break from it.
thank you! and all other moders for all the hard work!
I am enjoying it either way heh but yes it will be great once it is done
Do you know that the defense stations being built are indestructible? I am not sure if you are aware of this. I was wondering why a defense station in a sector wasn't getting destroyed even though it has been there forever. I went in sector to watch finally and it is magically healing itself lol.
They aren't indestructible, I went in and destroyed one personally. The AI doesn't attack them properly (well, in sector they AI doesn't attack any station properly) and all stations have self-repair just like capital ships. Plus if it's still under construction the traders can be bringing in resources and rebuilding the modules while it's under attack.
BlackRain wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 15:02
Do you know that the defense stations being built are indestructible? I am not sure if you are aware of this. I was wondering why a defense station in a sector wasn't getting destroyed even though it has been there forever. I went in sector to watch finally and it is magically healing itself lol.
Can't confim that behavior. Maybe there went something else wrong. Stations are destructible even in the build phase. But the ai isn't able to attack effectifly the station modules. The checks where the ai script pointing from a destructed module to a none destructed seem to be not working correctly.
They try to fix this in the current beta 1.51 patch.
BlackRain wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 15:02
Do you know that the defense stations being built are indestructible? I am not sure if you are aware of this. I was wondering why a defense station in a sector wasn't getting destroyed even though it has been there forever. I went in sector to watch finally and it is magically healing itself lol.
Can't confim that behavior. Maybe there went something else wrong. Stations are destructible even in the build phase. But the ai isn't able to attack effectifly the station modules. The checks where the ai script pointing from a destructed module to a none destructed seem to be not working correctly.
They try to fix this in the current beta 1.51 patch.
They were able to get the station down to 42% health eventually. The reason I initially said that was because I was watching as the central part of the station became a wreck and then miraculously became completely whole again (and the hp jumped up from 70% to 85%). I guess there could be other reasons for this but I didn't see any CV connected to the station and it was not a gradual repair. It was a jump from 70 to 85 in an instant and the central part was a wreck and then not a wreck. Weird behavior but later it did eventually go down to 42% but they must have been attacking that station for several hours.
The hull calculations for stations fluctuate because modules go from "wreck" to "nonexistant" or "wreck" to "repairing" in various cases. Oddly, the map health bar doesn't take that into account at all, and I'm pretty sure the OOS problems attacking stations happen when the map health bar reaches zero even though the station is still alive. I think the OOS attack function stops working when that happens.
None of these problems are really a result of this "hotfix" (I saw the same with a vanilla 1.50 attack from HOP) but it makes them more obvious because the faction logic likes to start building defense stations right in the enemy's face.
BlackRain wrote: ↑Sun, 13. Jan 19, 15:02
Do you know that the defense stations being built are indestructible? I am not sure if you are aware of this. I was wondering why a defense station in a sector wasn't getting destroyed even though it has been there forever. I went in sector to watch finally and it is magically healing itself lol.
Can't confim that behavior. Maybe there went something else wrong. Stations are destructible even in the build phase. But the ai isn't able to attack effectifly the station modules. The checks where the ai script pointing from a destructed module to a none destructed seem to be not working correctly.
They try to fix this in the current beta 1.51 patch.
They were able to get the station down to 42% health eventually. The reason I initially said that was because I was watching as the central part of the station became a wreck and then miraculously became completely whole again (and the hp jumped up from 70% to 85%). I guess there could be other reasons for this but I didn't see any CV connected to the station and it was not a gradual repair. It was a jump from 70 to 85 in an instant and the central part was a wreck and then not a wreck. Weird behavior but later it did eventually go down to 42% but they must have been attacking that station for several hours.
May an interrupt process failed when the CVs was maybe destructed. I could see this strange behavior once. The CVs was destroyed during the construction of the station but the process who should close the connection failed. It caused the same behaivor you describe. As far as i could figuerd out it may has somthing to do with the construction dornes. The interrupt signal failed to reach all drones, which causes a functional exception and ended in a never ending construction loop.
