[INFO] To all people reading that economy is fake - it's not

[CaptainX4]

I don't know what your picture is supposed to be showing me. It may be that the AI is building stations closer to the core there because those are important sectors and might have nothing to do with you at all. I haven't looked much into the faction logic yet, but there is a plan behind it all.

the point: on one pic it is exactly the teladi main sector, Profit Center Alpha, its near empty, no stations built whatsoever since the beginning of the game and this is the same in the rest of the sectors all in the game, the other pic is where my phq is, there was barely anything when i entered but im afking on that stations and they have built over 40 stations.... thats not closer to the core, thats actually a "faraway" sector.

test: start a game, dock on a station. leave it running for 2 days. see if this happens gl

[CaptainX4]

Wow, I guess you are going to continue to ignore everything that is said and stick to your absurd assumptions, okay. I am really done talking about it now.

absurd like the spawned ships?

[Nikola515]

Does anyone know if trading stations spawn wars or they are actually produced bought & sold? If I remember in XR warehouses spawned wares over time ? I'm just curious if this is case in X4 ? I'm sure it would act as trump card so economy wouldn't totally collapse and it would always have sink to sell stuff?

[CaptainX4]

Does anyone know if trading stations spawn wars or they are actually produced bought & sold? If I remember in XR warehouses spawned wares over time ? I'm just curious if this is case in X4 ? I'm sure it would act as trump card so economy wouldn't totally collapse and it would always have sink to sell stuff?

sadly i dint watch when it happened but my solar power plant created 50k ecells in no time and it had zero workforce (it still doesnt have any). i will try to dump some of it and see if production happens or just fills up on its own but now i go to sleep instead. x4 is important but real life is importantER

[fipmip]

I don't know what your picture is supposed to be showing me. It may be that the AI is building stations closer to the core there because those are important sectors and might have nothing to do with you at all. I haven't looked much into the faction logic yet, but there is a plan behind it all.

the point: on one pic it is exactly the teladi main sector, Profit Center Alpha, its near empty, no stations built whatsoever since the beginning of the game and this is the same in the rest of the sectors all in the game, the other pic is where my phq is, there was barely anything when i entered but im afking on that stations and they have built over 40 stations.... thats not closer to the core, thats actually a "faraway" sector.

test: start a game, dock on a station. leave it running for 2 days. see if this happens gl

I've left satellites in Silent Witness XII and have haven't been there since, after 24 hrs in game another station popped up on radar. I haven't been to that station or that sector since I left it near the start of the game. Riddle me that.

[Teleth]

I would think if the economy was actually fake, it wouldn't break down like it does now. It does speak to me in that the developers are trying to get it running properly, the real question is if the developers are able to get it working without resorting to their previous methods.
People shouldn't jump to the conclusion it's fake because they see 'spawning' - because the economy may not necessarily work in a realistic fashion all of the time. For example a faction may have a garage of vehicles it can magic up at certain locations, but these vehicles may be resourced from other areas of their faction space to prevent areas becoming stagnant (which would probably require a fairly solid time investment in programming to create an AI designed to just fix this particular case). These kind of things may still be coming out of a factions resource 'buffer'.

I think at minimum the game could use some very basic resources sinks like shipping food to planets with at least a minimum demand at any given time, or perhaps a fuel/resupply for ships/stations; from what I've heard there really is nothing using all of these materials except ship construction - which is probably why the economy is stagnating so such an extent; nothing except ship construction is using the majority of the resources in the world, and the ships flying around never have any need of the majority of resources which is a big mistake for an economy. The economy cannot simply expand endlessly as game performance is obviously already quite dicey, so resources sinks must exist - and they must very hungry.

I thought X3 had a very realistic economy initially, at least until stations started spawning everywhere; and that was definitely not cool for an economic trading game.
That said, I think we will have to wait on the conclusion for this one, because I don't think running SETA overnight is a particularly great test of the economy either.

[Nikola515]

Does anyone know if trading stations spawn wars or they are actually produced bought & sold? If I remember in XR warehouses spawned wares over time ? I'm just curious if this is case in X4 ? I'm sure it would act as trump card so economy wouldn't totally collapse and it would always have sink to sell stuff?

sadly i dint watch when it happened but my solar power plant created 50k ecells in no time and it had zero workforce (it still doesnt have any). i will try to dump some of it and see if production happens or just fills up on its own but now i go to sleep instead. x4 is important but real life is importantER

Solar power plants are automated they don't require workers otherwise you would need to feed them.... Also solar power plants are way OP(dont need anything to work) so I don't think they need bonus. I have 0/0 workers on mine too and I have two habits.

[luci]

I think at minimum the game could use some very basic resources sinks like shipping food to planets with at least a minimum demand at any given time, or perhaps a fuel/resupply for ships/stations; [...]

I think that's already the case.
At least in my universe the only things I can trade with many profitsssssss is medicine, food rations, water and ice and drugs of course... lots and lots of drugs.

Technical stuff is not needed anywhere, but that might simply be, because there is no conflict and things do not get destroyed, yet.

[fipmip]

I say add consumer goods, and bring back the atmospheric lifters from x3

[Zealoth]

Add civilian stations that work as population centers in space and take food/medicine and ship parts to use for consumer technology. They can produce tax revenue and/or work as manpower source (with educational buildings/space academy to train up crew to higher level?)

I think the idea is pretty neat, especially since there already are worker habitats that the devs could copy and modify into civilian population centers?

Also would be a nice target for build station missions, so I don't end up with 20 dock+storage+turrets stations everywhere

[Ranix]

well, then it cheats a lot and it definitely cheats the most around the player. the claims in that post have valid base. just look at these pictures:

Spoiler

Show

and

.
The game is clearly running around the player, you might just havent found that script yet... It might have the base of a simulated economy but it certainly not running based on that.

you're causing a boom in the sector with all your trading, einstein

ore and ice don't grow on trees

[Ranix]

solar power plants are way OP(dont need anything to work)

they don't make much money unless you have a mad fleet to sell them all really far away, they just sit full all the time. But my station does seem to be producing a **** ton of energy cells for only having one solar array, I would cut it in half

[Danya Turrel]

For what its worth, and I know zero about code or ai, after playing the game for quite a few hours now there are more NPC ships around doing things you might expect to see them doing. It's a simulation. Give it time to simulate.

[CaptainX4]

well, then it cheats a lot and it definitely cheats the most around the player. the claims in that post have valid base. just look at these pictures:

Spoiler

Show

and

.
The game is clearly running around the player, you might just havent found that script yet... It might have the base of a simulated economy but it certainly not running based on that.

you're causing a boom in the sector with all your trading, einstein

ore and ice don't grow on trees

now you had to namecall? no worries, i like einstein. i dont cause any boom with my single ice miner you can be sure, all my traders are working in the teladi main sectors like bright promis and strangely i dont cause any boom there. einstein

[Carl Sumner]

... There is system which decides what has to be produced, when and what is in too small numbers. Then game checks where to produce it. And when there is no station to produce it because it was destroyed faction manager makes plans for building station or invasion if it lost territory. I still didn't see it in a game yet

You don't see it because none of that exists. Or we could say that little parts of it exist all over the place. They try to simulate a real economy, not one of the politician's imaginary ones!

Go see "Cellular Automata" and then we can talk. Like, every ship and station is a "cell" with relatively simple programs like the one shown. But things can happen even the Devs never thought of...

[soundslikerust]

... There is system which decides what has to be produced, when and what is in too small numbers. Then game checks where to produce it. And when there is no station to produce it because it was destroyed faction manager makes plans for building station or invasion if it lost territory. I still didn't see it in a game yet

You don't see it because none of that exists. Or we could say that little parts of it exist all over the place. They try to simulate a real economy, not one of the politician's imaginary ones!

Go see "Cellular Automata" and then we can talk. Like, every ship and station is a "cell" with relatively simple programs like the one shown. But things can happen even the Devs never thought of...

Of course it's a simple finite state machines system nothing divine there. We will talk when i decide.