X Rebirth: A proper look by an old X Fan.

[Nomadian]

People wanted cockpits. They didn't want ship interiors/station interiors that forced going to a single ship.

I keep seeing this stated, but that doesn't compute. Previous X games had cockpits with multiple ships. X3 even had cockpits with multiple ships using a mod. All of them were more than just a picture painted on the screen too... they had just as much interactive detail as the cockpit in XR (and in many cases more).

So no... having a cockpit does not force anyone to be stuck with one ship. Especially on a game that took 7 years to make. Surely they could have designed cockpits for multiple ships in less than a week.

Here's a cockpit mod in X:AP...
http://youtu.be/k25b2fJXGYI

That's just the capital ship cockpit. Different class ships had different cockpits. It's not the most beautiful thing ever, but it was done by a mod and not by Egosoft. So surely they could do better. No... we are not stuck with 1 ship simply because of cockpits...

Actualy in a matter of speaking those cockpit were done by egosoft...

Those are x2 cockpit. Just readded again over the gui in x3.

You're right. I thought they looked familiar.

[giskard]

So what chance would X4 have had 7 years later if it rehashed an already outdated system and a flawed system at that....

Little. But few people wanted an X4 stacked even higher on the framework of X3AP.

People wanted X4 built upon an entire new engine framework, salvaging as much as possible that was good from the previous games while ditching anything that was broken.

People wanted cockpits. They didn't want ship interiors/station interiors that forced going to a single ship.

Its amazing how much we agree on and still come to completely different conclusions. I for did not see X3 or any of the X3 games as a good step forward. They where all steps backwards to me over X2.

Buggy complexes and capital ships where its best features. The other features where better in X2.

[giskard]

So what chance would X4 have had 7 years later if it rehashed an already outdated system and a flawed system at that....

Little. But few people wanted an X4 stacked even higher on the framework of X3AP.

People wanted X4 built upon an entire new engine framework, salvaging as much as possible that was good from the previous games while ditching anything that was broken.

People wanted cockpits. They didn't want ship interiors/station interiors that forced going to a single ship.

Its amazing how much we agree on and still come to completely different conclusions. I for did not see X3 or any of the X3 games as a good step forward. They where all steps backwards to me over X2.

Buggy complexes and capital ships where its best features. The other features where better in X2.

[giskard]

Speaking for my self.

I like the game, I think its an improvement over all but what I find to be unacceptable is the release state of the game. The bugs mostly. Arguements about the devs being wrong for releasing the game in that state are all fair comment to me.

I voted this game a 5 out of 10 on metacritics for that reason. +5 for the features that work, -5 for bugs.

What does concern me is something else entirely.

Is the reason why have such a bad interface because the Xbox controller could not handle anything else, is that why its stripped down ?

If a PC user with a full sized Corsair keyboard costing £120 and a Logitech mouse costing £100 and a Siatek Joystick Costing £70 on a computer that cost me £1200 has to suffer because of the limitations of a £15 xbox controller from a £300 console, that would piss me off.

Sadly I believe that may actually be the case.
Bernds comment about consoles pretty much convinced me that is the case.

Yet the poll about it last time I checked said only 3% of X users use a game pad. So the the 97% of us suffer for it.

That is whats on my mind.....

PS I really do not mind console support providing the PC is supported fully too.

[blazin419]

I'm not going to even bother complaining about the lack of features and poor quality control of X Rebirth, because I already know the reason why.

X Rebirth is just what its name implies: Rebirth of the X series. Egosoft spent much resources in creating their new engine, and the assets for the game. While in comparison, the previous X games were cumulative. They simply didn't have the funding to complete the game the way it was supposed to be. You see signs of it everywhere. The first person mechanic was a new addition to the X series, but the animations are insignificant and disgusting to look at, and the only interiors that you actually walk around in are two environments copied and pasted into every station or ship: The round landing platform, and the space station interior (with the interior of the Albion Skunk too of course). The game was obviously not tested, and is riddled with bugs. If Egosoft really did spend 7 years making this game they definitely had some hardships which delayed their production significantly.

The disappointment for me doesn't come from the fact that the game is riddled with bugs or has performance issues. Those things can be fixed. The game itself, at its core, regardless of if or when all these bugs get fixed, is a disappointment. They took away too much for this "upgrade".

I believe the ability to pilot multiple ships (including capital ships) still could have been added. Instead of focusing so much on huge stations, the world could have been more open. For example, much like how travel within sectors are done using "space highways", there could have been more focus and more points of interest in the spaces that aren't near space highways. While sector-to-sector travel could still force you to stay in the space-highway, intra-sector travel using space-highways could be completely optional. Sectors in X rebirth are actually pretty massive compared to the older X games, but the sectors feel so small because the sectors are now separated into smaller areas or "points of interest". Opening up the entire sector as the map with the space highway being completely optional would open up space for capital ship combat. Similarly to the way the Albion Skunk travels outside of highways, by using the boost feature, capital ships could have been implemented with a similar feature to allow them to travel faster without the need of space highways (with the option to jump too of course).

The level of control over ships are also taken away in Rebirth. In X3 you could order a ship to do exactly what you wanted, because there were such a vast array of commands and options. Rebirth did not need to remove this level of control. All they had to do was centralize the interface more (as Rebirth did with the main menu wheel) and make the commands more organized and easily accessible.

I can only hope that the sequel to Rebirth brings back the features that X3 had. As giskard mentions, X2 did have some things that were better than X3, and Rebirth brought many of those features back. However, I believe that the features of X3 can be combined with the features of Rebirth without having to choose one over the other. I can forgive Egosoft this one time because I can imagine how difficult it must have been to make the transition to the current generation of games. Egosoft is in fact my favorite studio and Deep Silver is my favorite publisher. I envision good things for the future of the X series after this "hiccup".

[Sibilantae]

They made a game you don't like. As I said, it's fine to express extreme disappointment, frustration, even anger, and lobby for fixes, but there are human beings on the other end of all those rants and accusations, and not all of the responses directed at them have been civil. Much of it has been personally insulting to the people who worked on the game, who probably wanted nothing more than to do so and make people happy. You don't make niche games like economic space sims to get rich.

There were missteps made to be certain but I've never seen a community turn so viscous so quickly and throw out a decade of earned goodwill so easily. I've seen remarks that I wouldn't hurl at a perfect stranger, let alone one of the few developers with a proven record of making an incredibly rare sort of game that they like.

You don't get a pass to behave like an animal, just because someone made a game you didn't like. Criticize the game all you like, but don't make it personal. None of the people that worked on this game set out to screw anyone over. Insulting someone's intelligence or morality (there's plenty of examples on the front page right now) is not a way to get what you want. It only works against your interests.

Speaking as an artist, I promise you that no creative person wants to release poorly received work, ever, for any reason. But it's not about what you can do, it's about what you can do with the time and resources you have. It's possible Ego ran out of one or both, but we can't know. And of the comparatively small staff that Egosoft employs, few of them probably had any say on design decisions or release dates.


Complain all you want, just remember to put the face of a human being who has catered to your interests to the best of their ability for years on the receiving end of those remarks.

QFT

[giskard]

I am starting to understand the new trade system better now. Its actually quite clever though I need to play it more and get this new factory up and running before I decide if i like it.

But basically it goes like this.

You run around from station to station or radar scanning for cargo and trading, this makes you between 1000cr and 100,000 credits normally, sometimes 500,000crs if your lucky. Scanning gets you more.

You buy your first freighter and start scanning the hard points of stations, this unlocks deals in a sector. IF you find no good deals on offer, you have to scan more hard points or go to another sector and check again. This uses that trading extention addon btw. For Energy on an Energy Freighter, these deals are worth 300,000 per run for a bad deal.... for a really good deal you may be able to double that.

The more stations you scan the more deals you get so the more active you are in a sector, the better the trading will become. Of course if you race through all the sectors mapping them out, your going to get the worst deals in all of them.

So right away we have a vital difference between XR and older games, in older games you would soon run out of deals in Argon space and head for Boron or some other races space. In XR its worth fully exploring a sector (basically fully exploring argon space sort of deal) because it pays if your a trader.

Also the missions, its fun to take on combat missions and it raises your rep with the factions too, which allows you to buy licences and trade more items. You also get to take on Xenon capital ships and pirate capital ships as missions which is dead cool.

I spent the last 10 hours in a single sector and never got bored, I am now building a station that cost me 1.900.000 credits for the construction ship and will cost another 19,000.000 credits to build it unless I supply the resources my self.

The trading may seem shallow at first, but the further in to the game you get, the deeper it gets and more sense it makes.

Now I see that, its actually more fun than the old system. But of course, I have to see how the factories work too.

[vargata]

biggest dumb bs ever...

[Sibilantae]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

[skylinedr]

...
Btw thats a standing joke about players who rant about minor points.... there is no underwear colour change in my mods.

I happen to think if you like 75% of a game, 75% of your feedback should reflect that.

Yea, maybe i was a bit too harsh, but for me personally the capships are the main thing in X, since "The Threat", not just a "minor point". What else could me more interesting than let those monsters fight each other? Sure, trading and building an empire is one thing, but that stuff was always "running in background" in my saves.

[vargata]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

[jasonbarron]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

Of course giskard's experiences (that he is very generously sharing) are not going to break through the wall of hate that has formed around the game in many quarters, but it MAY show some sitting on the fence that they just need to work with the game and they'll be rewarded with a fun, deep experience.

I dearly wish more people had given the game the same chance as he did before they rushed to judgement. My own experience with the game has been very similar to giskard's--it's my sincere view that XR is already a LOT of fun, and in time will rise to excellence.

[Chizzler]

Nice read giskard... Personally I find the gamer community way too harsh and aggressive towards game developers nowadays, especially PC gamers. What most PC gamers do not understand the level of complexity to develop games, or other kinds of software. Heck, even with $1 Billion (source: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/obamac ... /id/532856) the US was not capable to produce a bugfree website.

I hope that PC gamers will start to realize that they are driving developers away from the PC platform in favor of consoles. Sure, everybody is entitled to voice his or her opinion.. But there is a difference between voicing an opinion and ranting the forums.

Please release this game for consoles for £40 in the same state you released it on PC. You're dealing with a much wider audience with the expectation that things work right out of the box. You'd get just as much criticism from them as you have from us. Moreso if more of them actually spent time online.

You lied to your consumers in the build up to this games release spouting things such as accessibility (Yeah right), how it was as complex as past games (Errm, nope.) and how "every ship and every station was a part of fully a simulated universe" and destroying them would have an impact on the economy...you know except for the ones in highways or patrolling around stations, making up about 90% of ALL ships.

You made a big deal about walking around your ship (all 10 feet of it) and stations (filled with mutants and copy/paste hallways) you failed to deliver on so many of your promises, you'd set yourselves up for this outcry.

Bernd then had the nerve to come out and hail the game as a success amidst all the anger, technical issues and scathing reviews, showing that your company judges success as the amount of money you made rather than the quality of the product you released. You couldn't even post updates on your own forums to respond to consumers on launch day, and no attempt was made to inform them (e.g. Via twitter) that you were using steam forums to communicate.

I could go on and on about the lies you've spread, the broken promises, the bugs, the watered down gameplay, the lack of testing or optimization or the fact that the game was clearly designed as a console game gone wrong (you're comment doesn't support your companies argument that this wasn't true either). Release a game like this after the hype and promises you made on any device and your consumers are going to be angry.

This is your game, you've spent years making it, and you're proud of what you've achieved. but if you were just another purchaser, and this wasn't your 'baby' you'd be right here along side the rest of us, outraged at what you've been given for your money.

I expect to see X:rebirth in the xmas sale on steam at 33-50% off after this terrible launch, but those of us who pre-ordered or bought upon release aren't getting a playable game before then. It's like buying a t.v. you can't use till the price is slashed a month after release. if this was a product in a different industry, you'd probably be facing court cases and investigations from organisations such as trading standards.

PC gamers are not pushing developers to consoles. Look at recent indie successes such as Limbo ,Super Meat Boy, Braid, which all began on consoles but had their breakaway success on the PC. Look at minecraft & terraria that saw huge success thanks to the PC. If you create a good game, you'll be successful (not just in sales numbers). If you promise a good game, but don't deliver, you're going to get slammed, regardless of the device it's released on.

Money is what's driving developers to consoles... The same driving force that had your company working on making this game console friendly. Something went wrong and you shipped it to us instead, and now you personally come out and accuse us as being the bad guys!

Release this game on console in it's launch state after the same promises you made to us and see how they respond. This game's saving grace is it's mod-ability. good luck with that on the consoles... Enjoy the fees you have to pay every time you release a patch to fix this broken mess. Console gamers expect things to work out of the box far more than pc gamers...and they don't have prior experience with you as a developer, so won't know how much post-release support you DO give.

but hey, your entitled to your opinion.

[BlackRain]

I really think quite a few people didn't bother to understand the changes. They played it for a decent amount of time I am sure but with bugs and all the issues, you can't see much in that time. They thought it was going to be similar to the past X games and thought it would function the same, but it doesn't. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed, more commands for ships and such, but the game is good. I think Ego intended "station trading" to be the new way that people would spend most of their time trading (especially in the later game) while they could still manually trade and build up the money needed to build their first station and some trade ships. Lack of fleet management is a mess but I think this will change. A more streamlined process for recruitment of employees would be nice too.

[vargata]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

Of course giskard's experiences (that he is very generously sharing) are not going to break through the wall of hate that has formed around the game in many quarters, but it MAY show some sitting on the fence that they just need to work with the game and they'll be rewarded with a fun, deep experience.

I dearly wish more people had given the game the same chance as he did before they rushed to judgement. My own experience with the game has been very similar to giskard's--it's my sincere view that XR is already a LOT of fun, and in time will rise to excellence.

i wish you the best... please send me a private message in 2014 if you still play it (or well, may i ask you to send me a message if you were able to really start playing it?) x3 looked better at release with all its awful lots of bugs and it still has many, not even touched after 7 years. dont be that silly to expect that they will make this game excellent... they will sure patch up to a generally playable level and thats it.

[smithy87]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

Of course giskard's experiences (that he is very generously sharing) are not going to break through the wall of hate that has formed around the game in many quarters, but it MAY show some sitting on the fence that they just need to work with the game and they'll be rewarded with a fun, deep experience.

I dearly wish more people had given the game the same chance as he did before they rushed to judgement. My own experience with the game has been very similar to giskard's--it's my sincere view that XR is already a LOT of fun, and in time will rise to excellence.

i wish you the best... please send me a private message in 2014 if you still play it (or well, may i ask you to send me a message if you were able to really start playing it?) x3 looked better at release with all its awful lots of bugs and it still has many, not even touched after 7 years. dont be that silly to expect that they will make this game excellent... they will sure patch up to a generally playable level and thats it.

So far I haven't seen a single constructive comment from you Vargata, by all means hate the game if you wish, but all I've seen you do is trawl the forums adding comments like "biggest dumb bs ever..." to positive threads, surely you can be more constructive than that?

Cheers,

Smithy

[giskard]

skylinedr

Totally agree, but the cap ship features were good in X3.... What you want would make them better but the lack of it does not make them bad.

That is my point here.

[Tanvaras]

Good write up Giskard, and some good information through the pages as well you mention.

[vargata]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

Of course giskard's experiences (that he is very generously sharing) are not going to break through the wall of hate that has formed around the game in many quarters, but it MAY show some sitting on the fence that they just need to work with the game and they'll be rewarded with a fun, deep experience.

I dearly wish more people had given the game the same chance as he did before they rushed to judgement. My own experience with the game has been very similar to giskard's--it's my sincere view that XR is already a LOT of fun, and in time will rise to excellence.

i wish you the best... please send me a private message in 2014 if you still play it (or well, may i ask you to send me a message if you were able to really start playing it?) x3 looked better at release with all its awful lots of bugs and it still has many, not even touched after 7 years. dont be that silly to expect that they will make this game excellent... they will sure patch up to a generally playable level and thats it.

I really think quite a few people didn't bother to understand the changes. They played it for a decent amount of time I am sure but with bugs and all the issues, you can't see much in that time. They thought it was going to be similar to the past X games and thought it would function the same, but it doesn't. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed, more commands for ships and such, but the game is good. I think Ego intended "station trading" to be the new way that people would spend most of their time trading (especially in the later game) while they could still manually trade and build up the money needed to build their first station and some trade ships. Lack of fleet management is a mess but I think this will change. A more streamlined process for recruitment of employees would be nice too.

well many maybe, but the most, as i read awful lot of reviews and comments, are not... what the main problem is that when you launch the game, it shocks with how it looks like. its like going back in the time at least 5-10 years... the 7yo X3 looks a lot better. well, get over it, graphics is not everything, the game can be still good. try the biggest news, go check out the stations... well, docking is disfunctional, no problem, lets see the platform... huhhh, well thats uglier and more pointless than some garageproject. lets get inside. o.O, still nothing better. small ugly and still pointless. lets talk... well, better not to do, so disappointing. ok. after exploring the vents i gave up trying to find any useful or interesting there so lets fight... got out of the station and blowed the whole hell of a system into pieces just to listen the hell of a stupid station announcements what doesnt even for me (or skunk has a great hacking device to catch what the hell the station operator want from the police forces). nah this was the point where I gave it up completely. no future in this game. it was born dead..., i've got over the bugs, i've got over the crap control, i've got over the missing features but i cant and dont want to get over the pointlessness of every aspect of the game (didnt even try trading or building anything, after all of this i didnt want to sink deeper with this titanic).

[smithy87]

biggest dumb bs ever...

I don't think you know who giskard is.

edit: or if you do, you're not showing much sign of being able to rebut him very well

cant care less. what is posted on that site is halfway lie to recolor most of the complains in a better way. thats enough

Of course giskard's experiences (that he is very generously sharing) are not going to break through the wall of hate that has formed around the game in many quarters, but it MAY show some sitting on the fence that they just need to work with the game and they'll be rewarded with a fun, deep experience.

I dearly wish more people had given the game the same chance as he did before they rushed to judgement. My own experience with the game has been very similar to giskard's--it's my sincere view that XR is already a LOT of fun, and in time will rise to excellence.

i wish you the best... please send me a private message in 2014 if you still play it (or well, may i ask you to send me a message if you were able to really start playing it?) x3 looked better at release with all its awful lots of bugs and it still has many, not even touched after 7 years. dont be that silly to expect that they will make this game excellent... they will sure patch up to a generally playable level and thats it.

I really think quite a few people didn't bother to understand the changes. They played it for a decent amount of time I am sure but with bugs and all the issues, you can't see much in that time. They thought it was going to be similar to the past X games and thought it would function the same, but it doesn't. There are certainly issues that need to be addressed, more commands for ships and such, but the game is good. I think Ego intended "station trading" to be the new way that people would spend most of their time trading (especially in the later game) while they could still manually trade and build up the money needed to build their first station and some trade ships. Lack of fleet management is a mess but I think this will change. A more streamlined process for recruitment of employees would be nice too.

well many maybe, but the most, as i read awful lot of reviews and comments, are not... what the main problem is that when you launch the game, it shocks with how it looks like. its like going back in the time at least 5-10 years... the 7yo X3 looks a lot better. well, get over it, graphics is not everything, the game can be still good. try the biggest news, go check out the stations... well, docking is disfunctional, no problem, lets see the platform... huhhh, well thats uglier and more pointless than some garageproject. lets get inside. o.O, still nothing better. small ugly and still pointless. lets talk... well, better not to do, so disappointing. ok. after exploring the vents i gave up trying to find any useful or interesting there so lets fight... got out of the station and blowed the whole hell of a system into pieces just to listen the hell of a stupid station announcements what doesnt even for me (or skunk has a great hacking device to catch what the hell the station operator want from the police forces). nah this was the point where I gave it up completely. no future in this game. it was born dead..., i've got over the bugs, i've got over the crap control, i've got over the missing features but i cant and dont want to get over the pointlessness of every aspect of the game (didnt even try trading or building anything, after all of this i didnt want to sink deeper with this titanic).

Much better, valid, coherent points! Well done!

Cheers,

Smithy