AI - honestly?

SteveMill · Post by **SteveMill** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 14:51

That a modder can fix something in under a week that Ego could not be bothered to do in seven years just makes this whole mess even worse.

What - do we have to crawl through every script and do this ourselves? Can't be done. And if it could, the new scripts would all start conflicting as mods do.

It was up to Ego to do this right in the first place. i paid for a premium game not a construction kit.

Quitschi · Post by **Quitschi** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 15:05

It kind of reminds me of the awkward stuff that was bound to happen when one plays Dwarven Fortress.

Minus the part where everyone shares a hearty laugh about the hilarious story that ensues.

Alucard291 · Post by **Alucard291** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 15:50

Ugottabejoking wrote:
Ratez wrote:This game is truly realistic. It immerses us by bringing real life intelligence into the game, including both spectrum of intelligence.

Who would of thought to create artificial stupidity? It is truly a work befitting of the 7 years they have spent on perfecting the game. Egosoft once again outdone themselves.
artificial stupidity....I had to laugh ^^.

IF IT WOULDN'T BE SO ****** SAD!

Hey c'mon now

AI stood for Artificial Idiot for as long as I can remember

Haysand · Post by **Haysand** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 15:51

Sirrobert wrote: The people that loved it trusted Egosoft into making something good, and thus pre purched it.
They created a massive hype, without any reviews, and the people caught in that also pre purched.

This game sold good for the same reason bad movies used to sell good. Everyone thought it was good, so it sold alot of tickets in the opening week. And only after that week, the reviews came in and warned those who hadn't seen it yet that it was a bad movie

Maybe answer a question you were asked?

Haysand · Post by **Haysand** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 15:54

swatti wrote:Before repeating how bad things are, remember what egosoft is good at, how many of you even remember that?

That is the point, people do remember what Egosoft is good at but they find it lacking in Rebirth.

One example for all is trading and fleet management. There is none to speak of in Rebirth.

Alucard291 · Post by **Alucard291** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 15:54

swatti wrote:Before repeating how bad things are, remember what egosoft is good at, how many of you even remember that?

Its post-launch support and patching. They may have left lots un-fixed in X3 but the engine had its limits.

Also, they now have to fix what they started or its their last release... may i also remind you making post-launch patches dont bring much money, instead the bad review that may just be outdated soon still hurts the sales.

Egosoft is good at releasing badly performing, unoptimised games. And then stealing modders' work and releasing it as "standalone expansions".

That's all I remember from well over 1k hours of 3 X3 games I have played.

And lo and behold. They have done it again. Once again the engine's 32bit. The shader model is 2.0 (dx9) and the multicore optimisations are still dire

Welcome to 2007! wait no its 2013...

Kwitzak · Post by **Kwitzak** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 16:04

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbTSi2BNxg

This is so shamefull to Watch.. I just cant understand that this is the best they can do after 7 years

omfgjohnnyisback · Post by **omfgjohnnyisback** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 16:16

The AI scripts library is simply lacking in this game, especially if you compare it to previous games.

I'm looking forward to see them expand it and actually implement completely MISSING code in the forthcoming patches disguised as "bugfix", so I could show you, fanboys, a simple diff as a proof of how incomplete this game was at release.

MrSuperKarti · Post by **MrSuperKarti** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 16:53

Im just going to drop this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt4B4e3i5_0

Today Matthias shows us how the game calculates paths to allow smooth movements for AI ships even inside complex geometries like the new X Rebirth stations. The video shows a mid size transporter ship unloading energy and to get to the docking position it flies very deep into the geometry of the station.

... if i would be that "Matthias" i would rage around my office now kicking asses for making my work look terrible.

Specially the last 2 Minutes are pretty awesome to compare what they say vs what we got.
Money Quote: "X-Rebirth is optimized for Computers of the Future!"

Hob Anagerik · Post by **Hob Anagerik** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:01

"X-Rebirth is optimised for computers from the future" - Bernd Lehahn, 2013.

omfgjohnnyisback · Post by **omfgjohnnyisback** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:01

MrSuperKarti wrote:Im just going to drop this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt4B4e3i5_0

Today Matthias shows us how the game calculates paths to allow smooth movements for AI ships even inside complex geometries like the new X Rebirth stations. The video shows a mid size transporter ship unloading energy and to get to the docking position it flies very deep into the geometry of the station.

... if i would be that "Matthias" i would rage around my office now kicking asses for making my work look terrible.

Specially the last 2 Minutes are pretty awesome to compare what they say vs what we got.
Money Quote: "X-Rebirth is optimized for Computers of the Future!"

0:24 Admits they use static pre-calculated waypointing in this game for performance purposes (why the f**k?! if it's not a console game) and is followed by Bernd implying that fully dynamic AI pathfinding is actually bad for immersion. LMAO!

MrSuperKarti · Post by **MrSuperKarti** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:07

omfgjohnnyisback wrote:
MrSuperKarti wrote:Im just going to drop this here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dt4B4e3i5_0

Today Matthias shows us how the game calculates paths to allow smooth movements for AI ships even inside complex geometries like the new X Rebirth stations. The video shows a mid size transporter ship unloading energy and to get to the docking position it flies very deep into the geometry of the station.

... if i would be that "Matthias" i would rage around my office now kicking asses for making my work look terrible.

Specially the last 2 Minutes are pretty awesome to compare what they say vs what we got.
Money Quote: "X-Rebirth is optimized for Computers of the Future!"
0:24 Admits they use static pre-calculated waypointing in this game for performance purposes (why the f**k?! if it's not a console game) and is followed by Bernd implying that fully dynamic AI pathfinding is actually bad for immersion. LMAO!

As long as your Dynamic AI Pathfining only got "yourte good to fly until you bumb into something" as parameters, then its indeed bad for immersion.

Sirrobert · Post by **Sirrobert** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:08

Haysand wrote:
Sirrobert wrote: The people that loved it trusted Egosoft into making something good, and thus pre purched it.
They created a massive hype, without any reviews, and the people caught in that also pre purched.

This game sold good for the same reason bad movies used to sell good. Everyone thought it was good, so it sold alot of tickets in the opening week. And only after that week, the reviews came in and warned those who hadn't seen it yet that it was a bad movie
Maybe answer a question you were asked?

I just did. Popular with the fans, and those fans trusted the developer.
You know, popular doesn't always mean with a HUGE public

omfgjohnnyisback · Post by **omfgjohnnyisback** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:14

MrSuperKarti wrote:As long as your Dynamic AI Pathfining only got "yourte good to fly until you bumb into something" as parameters, then its indeed bad for immersion.

Just another achievement get for ES, this game is not only 'GTA in space' and 'Skyrim in space', but is also a 'Train Simulator 2014 in space' as long as your ships move on invisible rails.

Tikigod60 · Post by **Tikigod60** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:17

Kwitzak wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbTSi2BNxg

This is so shamefull to Watch.. I just cant understand that this is the best they can do after 7 years

Yeah, I had something similar happen when doing an escort mission.

The NPC freighter ship I was sent to escort was reported at 0% hull but still in one piece, managed to keep it from enemy fire for the rest of the escort.. then it got to the station hubs and just turned to be pointing vertically and just bashed into stations and randomly fired vertical and lateral thrusters at intervals.

Left it to it for 10 minutes and went to make a coffee and have a cig, came back and it had managed to slowly move itself to a open area and was still just moving around randomly pointing vertically and firing thrusters to move itself into no meaningful direction.

lordpazuzu · Post by **lordpazuzu** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:17

For many people this may look weird but, this is one of the mos difficult parts of a game, the pathing system, mainly all the games use precalculated pathing, but this is a huge step its like they are using stearing behaviors to compute the pathing, AWESOME!!!!

Ratez · Post by **Ratez** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:20

Also is it me or is there something wrong with the scale? Judging from the size of our character, then there are extra small ships which are very small compared to our ship. Are we giants?

Tikigod60 · Post by **Tikigod60** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:29

Ratez wrote:Also is it me or is there something wrong with the scale? Judging from the size of our character, then there are extra small ships which are very small compared to our ship. Are we giants?

You're not flying a fighter or anything like that, you're flying a multi-crewed vessel that in theory should have many compartments.

It's just all that actually exists in the game itself is the cockpit and rear ramp debark room... so when you leave the cockpit you're really travelling across more space in the ship, not just walking out one door into the next room.

MrSuperKarti · Post by **MrSuperKarti** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 17:36

lordpazuzu wrote:For many people this may look weird but, this is one of the mos difficult parts of a game, the pathing system!

From an IT Guy PoV i know that Pathfinding really is stressful to code -

my point is: they make this great video announcing how ground-breaking new their pathfinding model where it is simply not working. And that makes that Matthias look really r*******

See the video 2 posts above, or play the game and watch capitals: hug/bug the station or hug/bug each other

And the "non-capital"-pathing seems to be even worse - just see the video 2 posts aboce or play the game and watch small dogfights where ur enemy: Flys full front into the station, or Flys full front into your capitals etc.

Ugottabejoking · Post by **Ugottabejoking** » Wed, 20. Nov 13, 18:20

Kwitzak wrote:www.youtube.com/watch?v=2FbTSi2BNxg

This is so shamefull to Watch.. I just cant understand that this is the best they can do after 7 years

sigh, added it to start post. I don't know what is so diffiult with pathfinding? If you let the ships iterate it, **** yes, oc that is hard to code it properly...and I would just never never never never ****** NEVER try to let them iterate a path around a complex object.

Instead: Place predefined paths around the station, leading through the complex objects, while there are many of them for different SIZES/Shipclasses.

That would be so much saver and it work so much better. Instead we have this bumper car pathing. Just why? Or plz tell me what is wrong with my logic.

egosoft.com

egosoft.com

AI - honestly?