[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[1stRaymond]

I would use Steam as long as I can buy a hard copy for my own use and for registration if required. If I cannot get a CD/DVD of the game I am buying - I will not use any service that ties me to the internet for game play. Our internet service is unreliable at best and I prefer to be able to play when I want - not when I have internet service and need to maintain that internet service to continue play.

If Ego wants to use Steam that is fine, as long as I can still purchase the games on separate media and not as a download. If Steam will not sell me a CD/DVD for a game - I don't buy and spend my money somewhere else.

[StarSword]

I would use Steam as long as I can buy a hard copy for my own use and for registration if required. If I cannot get a CD/DVD of the game I am buying - I will not use any service that ties me to the internet for game play. Our internet service is unreliable at best and I prefer to be able to play when I want - not when I have internet service and need to maintain that internet service to continue play.

If Ego wants to use Steam that is fine, as long as I can still purchase the games on separate media and not as a download. If Steam will not sell me a CD/DVD for a game - I don't buy and spend my money somewhere else.

As I recall they're releasing it as a Steamworks DVD (akin to Skyrim) and as direct download. As for your Internet problems, I sympathize; I was originally against Steam-only for that very reason. I found the easiest way to get to the game when our connection was acting up was to switch Steam to offline mode. If I couldn't get into Steam to begin with, I disconnected the whole computer from our LAN to force the client to start offline.

[strude]

... I don't think Ego care about losing loyal customers ...

A customer they lose isn't exactly loyal. The loyal ones are those that stick out the hard times.

[eladan]

A customer they lose isn't exactly loyal. The loyal ones are those that stick out the hard times.

The customer doesn't necessarily have a choice.

I'd class myself as a loyal customer, yet ES may lose me simply because I currently have no way to play steam games. ES making it impossible for me to play their games doesn't make me disloyal.

[Slashman]

Maybe one day Ego will return to the good old days of providing space sims that are accessable to all, instead of shafting their own consumer base with bull third party solutions that are, at the end of the day, only put in place to maximise their profit. Good old fashioned greed.

Meanwhile, my cash goes to Good old Games.

Maybe I've misunderstood the point of a company, but isn't maximizing profit the whole point of a business in the first place?

Any decision a company makes is going to be about making more money. We could argue that each decision shouldn't just be about immediate profits at the loss of long term returns, however.

I honestly don't think that moving to s Steam only release is about more money from purchases of the game, but more about ease of support and updating. In that context it simply makes sense. It makes the game easier to update and maintain.

[Sibilantae]

Maybe one day Ego will return to the good old days of providing space sims that are accessable to all, instead of shafting their own consumer base with bull third party solutions that are, at the end of the day, only put in place to maximise their profit. Good old fashioned greed.

Meanwhile, my cash goes to Good old Games.

Maybe I've misunderstood the point of a company, but isn't maximizing profit the whole point of a business in the first place?

Any decision a company makes is going to be about making more money. We could argue that each decision shouldn't just be about immediate profits at the loss of long term returns, however.

I honestly don't think that moving to s Steam only release is about more money from purchases of the game, but more about ease of support and updating. In that context it simply makes sense. It makes the game easier to update and maintain.

Profit != greed
If you won't buy their game because you don't want to play on Steam, that's cool - there are reasons people have for that. But please, please don't pull the "Egosoft only wants to make money" card, as if that's a horrendous thing for a company to do. It's ridiculous.

[RocketManSR3]

I hope Steam evaporates!

xoxo Gossip Girl

[Sibilantae]

I hope Steam evaporates!

xoxo Gossip Girl

But... but steam's already evaporated!!! O_o

[RocketManSR3]

No.....no..it cant be, you're lying

[Rabiator der II.]

Maybe I've misunderstood the point of a company, but isn't maximizing profit the whole point of a business in the first place?

Any decision a company makes is going to be about making more money. We could argue that each decision shouldn't just be about immediate profits at the loss of long term returns, however.

I honestly don't think that moving to s Steam only release is about more money from purchases of the game, but more about ease of support and updating. In that context it simply makes sense. It makes the game easier to update and maintain.

AFAIK the publisher gets more profit from digital distribution, if

• -the sales price is the same
  -and the same number of licenses is sold

According to this article http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/07/25/notch ... -on-steam/ Valve takes 30% of the sales price as fee. Which leaves 70% for developer/publisher.
In traditional "boxed" sales, it is 50% at best (sorry, don't have the link handy).

So if Egosoft can get all of their fans to follow them to Steam, they will earn more than with box sales. If some refuse, the picture will look less happy, with maybe 1/3 deserters as the point where the income is the same for Egosoft.
Ease of support may tip the balance more in favor of Steam, but that also can be expressed in money (you may need 1-2 employees less for maintaining your update server and answering questions on the forum).

In short, Egosoft has an IMHO legitimate interest in Steam because it might improve their financial situation.
But at the same time, gamers have an equally legitimate interest in not having their games being bound to Steam. Even if Steam works fine today, this may not always be the case, and the recent Terms Of Use change indicates a rather patronizing attitude on Valve's part.

[Slashman]

From the Torchlight 2 developers on boxed sales and their $20 price point:


Well, we're a small kind of independent company so we can just kind of decide what we're doing with a whole lot of external [influence]. So it's in our authority to do so.

Is it a good idea? I don't know. It feels right to us; it felt right for Torchlight 1 and then, it just felt like, you know we can make a really good argument if we do this again at twenty bucks for Torchlight II because it's just bigger and better in every way.

And yeah, we kind of— in the long run we want to be known as the people who have the best value in gaming. And we want to build a long-term community. We want to have people that buy our games and stuff for a long long long long time. So it's sort of an investment in the future.

But it's also possible because we no longer sell PC games in boxes. There's no way that, if we were a box-based game, that we could charge [$20]. It's really the advent of the digital distributors like Steam and stuff that make this possible, just because so much— when we sell a $20 box at WalMart we get like $3.50 back, whereas we get like $14 back for a digital sale.

That's kind of the industry standard for digital is like a 70-30 split. And we get more than that for a sale on our site because we're not going through anybody. But in any case the economics work better than— you know, much much better than boxes. And they're not that much different from when we used to do a $50 box through a regular box publisher that's about what would come back to the developer anyway.

It's really not— it kinda works for us is what I'm saying. We're gonna make money fine on it.

So digital sales do get better returns than boxes(we kind of knew that already). But Egosoft is still doing boxes for Rebirth as well. Although I don't know if the boxed version will be distributed for all territories i.e North America and other countries outside of Europe.

The Gamescon interview did confirm it for Germany for sure but I'm not sure where else is supposed to get them.

[Sibilantae]

In short, Egosoft has an IMHO legitimate interest in Steam because it might improve their financial situation.
But at the same time, gamers have an equally legitimate interest in not having their games being bound to Steam.

Definitely sums it up well. What is everyone continuing to argue about?

[Slashman]

In short, Egosoft has an IMHO legitimate interest in Steam because it might improve their financial situation.
But at the same time, gamers have an equally legitimate interest in not having their games being bound to Steam.

Definitely sums it up well. What is everyone continuing to argue about?

Profitsssss!

[StarSword]

Basically the problem is that every time the discussion in this thread dies down, some new guy comes in and posts the same argument we've seen a dozen times already because he doesn't want to read through ... I think we're up to 400-odd split-off pages now? Then whichever side disagrees with the new guy reposts their arguments, and we begin all over again.

[Slashman]

We should ban new guys...

[A5PECT]

Basically the problem is that every time the discussion in this thread dies down, some new guy comes in and posts the same argument we've seen a dozen times already... Then whichever side disagrees with the new guy reposts their arguments, and we begin all over again.

And then the argument that arguments are repeated is repeated...

[ external image ]

[StarSword]

^... and ignored.

[A5PECT]

...I'm agreeing with you.

But acknowledging the cyclical nature of the thread is part of the cycle itself. Even the whole "I hated the idea of Steam but I bit the bullet and tried it out and it's not as bad as I anticipated" testimony is a recurring fixture.

The only progress that's been made is a few small interface improvements Steam has made over time addressing multiple installations and offline mode functionality, which do work in its favor. But the internet requirement/account binding/game ownership/consumer rights arguments are still left loitering around.

[StarSword]

I'm not arguing with you, I was continuing your sentence. It's another thing we've both noticed: the only sane man who tries to stop each cycle is always ignored. (Also my last post went in before you added that image to yours. LOL BTW.)

[A5PECT]

I'm not arguing with you, I was continuing your sentence.

Oh, my bad.

Also my last post went in before you added that image to yours. LOL BTW.)

Hehe, thanks. I had fun with that one, so I made an alternate version.