Mobile Mining quick setup

[deca.death]

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Where exactly is the problem in operation. I'm guessing that with that kind of mining power you are filling several mammoths simultaneously. What part must you do manually? How is the chain organized exactly, from drop-off points to that large factory? You would need some mod to allow TL ships to dock the complex. It should be in vanilla - if complex has more then 50 factories, it should been able to dock TL. Is the complex even in the same sector?

You really outdo yourself with that mining/producing operation. I don't know should I be in awe or horrified : ) Game clearly wasn't designed for that level of abuse, you can see that now I guess. Will you even be able to get rid off that quantity of microchips later??

[MarvinTheMartian]

Wow, that must be producing a lot of silicon! by my reckoning, 300 chips plants (and supporting loop) will eat through a nearly 17,000 silicon wafers per hour (11,000 of which is for the chips) so with 500 miners collecting rocks you are probably over-producing silicon massively which would explain why they fill up so fast, have you tried running fewer ships to see if they still deliver the required amount? I'm planning on doing some more testing, when I have time, to see just how efficient a mobile mining op can be but I'm managing to collect ~5000 si/hr from 16 miners so to meet your needs 56 miners should be enough, even if you crank that up to 100 just to be safe it's a lot less than you're managing right now.

It's interesting to hear that lag is caused when they're full, something to watch out for when the operation grows. I don't plan on having an operation anywhere near as large as that though. Kudos.

[glenmcd]

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Where exactly is the problem in operation. I'm guessing that with that kind of mining power you are filling several mammoths simultaneously. What part must you do manually? How is the chain organized exactly, from drop-off points to that large factory? You would need some mod to allow TL ships to dock the complex. It should be in vanilla - if complex has more then 50 factories, it should been able to dock TL. Is the complex even in the same sector?

You really outdo yourself with that mining/producing operation. I don't know should I be in awe or horrified : ) Game clearly wasn't designed for that level of abuse, you can see that now I guess. Will you even be able to get rid off that quantity of microchips later??

I'm using the advanced hub which allows TL docking. Complex hub is only 20KM or so from silicon rock. I'm not using CLS at all. It's manual all the way. I place a TL next to the silicon rock and move everything to that point, command the Mercury Haulers to collect rocks. With Mammoths that go there, I use transporter to transport silicon from each Mercury to that Mammoth. When full I command Mammoth to the complex hub, transfer into complex hub and send Mammoth back for more. It sounds clunky and probably is, but stuff like TS to TL xfers I can do around 5 per second using the keyboard macro. So it only takes say 10 seconds average to fill a Mammoth.

Yeah I know this is larger operation than it "needs" to be but I'm experimenting with this and that, working up to a particular speed run attempt I want to try. I'll be trying to complete all missions in minimum time, and I'm thinking maybe 48 RL hours will do it. Although the speed run would be vanilla you can still have stuff like advanced hub and no tubes mod as they don't add the "modified" flag. If I had to take the time to get the automation going from scratch (and not just import the waypoints), I reckon that would make the speed run slower overall. As the hub has the potential of taking longer than any other mission I'm looking at ways of speeding it up, and sourcing massive quantities of silicon open up opportunities not just to supply silicon, but most of the other things needed for xenon hub plot.

Speed run aside, I'm still very interested in getting a fully automated mining operation going. But it would have to result in something which I could "import" into next gamestart as I'm not one to play a gamestart for more than a few days. If your full automation technology could be combined with a practical means of "importing" then we're looking at something that could really go places.

[deca.death]

I'm using the advanced hub which allows TL docking. Complex hub is only 20KM or so from silicon rock. I'm not using CLS at all. It's manual all the way.

You are emptying 500 miners manually? Please say that you are kidding...?

I place a TL next to the silicon rock and move everything to that point, command the Mercury Haulers to collect rocks. With Mammoths that go there, I use transporter to transport silicon from each Mercury to that Mammoth.

How many miners can you squeeze in one rock? Not all 500 I guess?
If not, how many collection points you have? Are they all in the same sector? All 500 ships?

When full I command Mammoth to the complex hub, transfer into complex hub and send Mammoth back for more. It sounds clunky and probably is,

It sound like pure hell and it probably is ; )

Here is the way I see it: Using properly set CLS2 script whole operation could be automated extremely ... easy. Advanced Hub can dock 2 TLs, right? That's the key. Here is how it should go.

10 broken asteroids each with:
-adv. satelite
-group of 50 miners
-5 collectors
-one TL, mammoth as collecting point.

Each group has one delivery elephant which unloads in hub mammoth permadocked at hub with orders to feed hub constantly. If one proves tight you could add other elephant (per group). You should build one chain to see how it goes and modify plan, but I think it would work like this more or less.

You would need trained CLS pilots, for collectors (50) and for elephants (10 or 20) and for permadocked mammoth (1). Just buy 80 discos and use kor'ah guide. Piece of cake, you'll have your pilots in no time.

If you need exact (field tested ;-) CLS2 commands that work flawlessly just ask (I am at work and can't access game now)

[glenmcd]

Yes, I'm currently emptying 500 rock collecting TSs manually. But don't forget that for each TL that I fill, it generally takes only one keypress to fill it. When you "Freight Exchange with..", you get a list of ships close enough to xfer. I use a single point for rock collecting and that's precisely one silicon rock. I destroy (8 x PBGs) any others within 5KM so that all ships stay around the same point, thus being close enough for all TLs to xfer from any of the 500 TSs. Suffice to say that there's maybe 5 different tasks that each TL does in a loop, and each one I can generally do with a single keypress. In the sector view, all Mammoths are grouped and all doing the same task, so it's easy to iterate the outer loop with keyboard macros too. With a dozen TLs going in parallel on 500 TSs, it's almost a continuous operation apart from me not quite being able to keep up with it. The TLs get to where they can collect again but I'm still doing others. Bit like patients waiting at a dental surgery hey With silicon being moved so quickly and with so many factories in the complex, the storage capacity for Silicon is massive (518131 pieces). Each "pass" of the 500 TSs nets 200,000 pieces of silicon, averaging 400 pieces each in the 6000 cargobay with max of 444. So it only takes two complete passes to fully satisfy the Silicon phase of the hub plot. Then there's the microchips. I haven't actually worked out how much silicon I'll need for this stage. The output bucket for microchips in the complex is 20,000. So just under four fillings for the final hub phase. Each factory loop takes 24 minutes and produces 2,000 microchips. So that makes a total for the job of 37 game hours. Most of this phase if not all can be done on SETA so it's more like four realtime hours. But then there is the silicon feeding to do, which looks like it's going to be around 300,000 or so. That will need around 2.5 game hours which can be overlapped with the above 37, however two of these will need to be realtime coz of the manual xfers. All in all it looks like the hub could be completed in a fair bit less than 24 realtime hours including setup.

In my previous automation attempts I came across a problem with getting TLs to feed wares to a station. TSs are no problem at all. Actually I've got a tip for that one. When you're cloning weapons, get a TS (though I often use the Hyperion) to feed weapons to the EQd. Buy ten M5s or TSs at the shipyard, and you can keep buying weapons until your TS/HV runs out at the EQd. For example a Teladi shipyard will offer up to four EBCs for your new ship(s). As soon as you purchase these for your ten ships, your TS/HV refills the EQd and you can buy more at the shipyard. All in near realtime. I use this to buy up to 1.99Bcr worth of EBCs at a time (long story). Now here comes the tip! If you only need to feed one ware, you simply sell the ware to station at average price and up to xyz quantity. It loops every few seconds. That means a lot of waiting to fill your TSs with cloned weapons. Instead of a one line waypoint list, have say 30 copies of the same waypoint. It can keep up with your buying at the shipyard even with a well constructed (fast) keyboard macro. I'm not sure whether this has many uses outside of weapon cloning though but I am not exactly branching out yet either.

Do you have any idea why my Mammoths won't sell wares to an EQd but TSs will? They have every piece of software I can fit them with, although they only really need CLS1/2, navigation and maybe transporter device AFAIK.

>How many miners can you squeeze in one rock
Probably up to 32,767. They are rock collecting and never mining. Because no other minerals are close to the single silicon rock, they always collect silicon and only silicon. OOS the collected rocks don't get deleted at all, thus "respawn" is not even applicable here.

>Pure hell?
yes, but there are mitigating circumstances

You mentioned about having multiple broken roids. If the TSs can fill their cargobay with a particular mineral when there's only one of those rocks in the sector, why would you need to spread them out or to break up multiple asteroids? If there's only one point that the collectors need to go to surely it simplifies things? I am OOS during every mining phase including moving ships to the satellite.

I tried mining before (not rock collecting, actual mining) and found that the ships would dock at whatever station once their cargobay was full, but then wouldn't unload and wouldn't iterate. Is this something that happens only when the pilots get skilled?

Do you have a save that you could share, with full automation happening? I completely understand if you won't want it let loose. But if so it would be quite educational. I'm happy to share any of my saves and post the link. Only thing is the current ones are mod'd so I'm not sure that they'd load on another system.

EDIT:
I was incorrect about the storage capacity of silicon product bin in complex. It's not 518,131 it's 5,181,315. Numbers were overlapped with price and so hard to read. Only realised when it didn't stop accepting more

[deca.death]

All in all it looks like the hub could be completed in a fair bit less than 24 realtime hours including setup.

Impressive. For my next game, when I will go modified, I'll cut down those demands to more "realistic" level.

In my previous automation attempts I came across a problem with getting TLs to feed wares to a station. TSs are no problem at all.

If that shows up as a problem, your supply mammoth could stay just outside the dock and several super mistrals emptying it continuosly in complex hub. Everything else stays the same. You could even get another mammoth to serve as a buffer, to load silicone when above 80% and to unload when below 20% in original mammoth. You could do anything once you are a master of CLS blade really ; )

I'm not sure whether this has many uses outside of weapon cloning though but I am not exactly branching out yet either.

I'm afraid I didn't understood. You are constantly filling EqD with weapons so they could be cloned multiple times via normal cloning, is that it?

Do you have any idea why my Mammoths won't sell wares to an EQd but TSs will? They have every piece of software I can fit them with, although they only really need CLS1/2, navigation and maybe transporter device AFAIK.

Not sure, never used TL for that job actually.

You mentioned about having multiple broken roids.

Yes, I did that because I wasn't sure how many could I squeeze in one place. It would be more simple to put them all in just one great bunch but this way you see all groups as completely separate operation. You could introduce one by one group, give orders more easily, and see exactly where problems could arise. And 1 collector per 10 ships is more then enough IS for something like that. Squeeze them tightly and you could probably pass with 1 per 20 miners.

I tried mining before (not rock collecting, actual mining) and found that the ships would dock at whatever station once their cargobay was full, but then wouldn't unload and wouldn't iterate. Is this something that happens only when the pilots get skilled?

I really don't know. I have no big experience in mining.

Do you have a save that you could share, with full automation happening? I completely understand if you won't want it let loose. But if so it would be quite educational. I'm happy to share any of my saves and post the link. Only thing is the current ones are mod'd so I'm not sure that they'd load on another system.

I can share my save no problem, but I think I've told you all relevant info, and I could share exact settings and help along the way, so there is no real need for that, but if you want it anyway PM me.

[Infekted]

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Game wasn't certainly designed for THAT level of abuse, guys.

Its hardly abuse!

Example:
You have 2 carriers full of fighters in the hub sector, not unreasonable right? You try and make a simple CLS route for a TS at the hub. TS is not on list as you have over 100 ships in the sector..

All my mining is strictly done on one point. The less movement involved the better imo. What is the point of spreading them out?


Glen - You empty 500 miners manually? I do not know whether to salute your tenacity or just boggle... That's crazy man

TL -> EQ dock problem. I make extensive use of TLs docked at EQ docks/hub/trade stations acting as feeders/storage.
Just make sure all transfer percents are set to zero and it should be fine.

[glenmcd]

the problem I have with Mammoth TLs feeding EQd:
The option "Start external commodity logistics" is ghosted out. TL is docked at my complex. If this is difficult to work out I can create a vanilla save and get it as far as I can.

>You are constantly filling EqD with weapons so they could be cloned
>multiple times via normal cloning, is that it?
Yes. One could make 40 EBCs out of 4, xfer them out, sell the empty M5s, and then do it all again and again.. It's easier to buy 10 TSs and turn 400 EBCs into 4000. If you want to outfit 20 x Mammoths you'll need 8 x 20 = 160 HEPTs. So one round of purchases instead of four. There is some credits overhead associated with buying ships and then selling at a shipyard. That overhead gets divided by the number of times the CLS refills..

[Infekted]

Oh that probly means you do not have a CLS pilot on board.
Your CLS pilots need to be at least Cargo Messenger to be able to operate a TL. Which means you usually have to dock another CLS ship with a cargo messenger or better at the same place as the TL. Then goto trader settings -> Reassign trader -> Select your TL.

And no, I use it to maintain stock in places. EQ docks for example only hold 2.5k energy. Which is nothing. A CLS Mammoth for example expands that to 62.5k energy

[glenmcd]

Oh that probly means you do not have a CLS pilot on board.
Your CLS pilots need to be at least Cargo Messenger to be able to operate a TL. Which means you usually have to dock another CLS ship with a cargo messenger or better at the same place as the TL. Then goto trader settings -> Reassign trader -> Select your TL.

Bingo! thanks Infekted

[THE_TrashMan]

Speaking of Equipment docks...does anyone know if Enhanced Equipment Docks work with CMOD4 and SRM...or at all (I notices it hasn't been updated in a long while).

The small limit of (my) trade station of some wares is driving me insane

[A5PECT]

Speaking of Equipment docks...does anyone know if Enhanced Equipment Docks work with CMOD4 and SRM...or at all (I notices it hasn't been updated in a long while).

The small limit of (my) trade station of some wares is driving me insane

SRM already modifies Equipment Docks to have increased storage capacity. I'm not quite sure what Enhanced Equipment Docks does, but I'd imagine if you made sure it took priority over the SRM files then it might work.

Ask in the SRM thread, though. This is all scripts and modding talk.

[saco3]

quick question from a noob.

Are mining ships faster than station mines? and are my correct to assume that I can set my miner ship to mine ore for example till its full then go to a TL and drop its cargo there?

Thanks.

[glenmcd]

quick question from a noob.

Are mining ships faster than station mines? and are my correct to assume that I can set my miner ship to mine ore for example till its full then go to a TL and drop its cargo there?

Thanks.

Welcome to the X-Universe saco3! Mobile mining seems to be one of those things that confuses nearly every X noob (including or even especially me!). If you are totally new to mobile mining, you will find absolutely tons of info and guides both in this forum and on player websites. I often find the best guides using Google. In this case try 'mobile mining guide terran conflict'.

>Are mining ships faster than station mines?
The speed at which station mines convert Energy Cells ("ECs") is governed by the "yield". This is a number from 1 to around 120 or so. The speed at which a ship collects rocks is static for any ship used. So, it depends on how many station mines, their yields, and how many ships you have collecting rocks or mobile mining as to which will result in more minerals per hour. There is a finite number of asteroids in any sector but an infinite number of ships you can have collecting rocks. Not exactly infinite but noone here has reached any limit just yet. Even in the sector with more ore than any other, rock collecting ships can produce minerals at more than ten times the speed. I'd say fifty times is easily achievable also. Why would you want so many minerals? The hub plot demands a lot. And besides, if you have minerals produced and delivered at twice the speed to a complex, it means the complex can be twice the size and produce twice as many products (any product with few exceptions).

>are my correct to assume that I can set my miner ship to mine ore for
>example till its full then go to a TL and drop its cargo there?
If by "mine ore" you mean collect ore rocks, then the answer is yes - Deca.death has done it. If you mean mine with a mobile drilling system then I don't know the answer. I know it can dock at a station with a full load of minerals, but I haven't got it beyond that. Hopefully someone else has more experience with this and can answer for you.

[saco3]

Thanks allot glenmcd.

I noticed you saying "collecting rocks" and "drilling" is there a difference between the two?? if collecting rocks mean that my ships will just take rock to a TL then I have to take them to a station mine what difference does that make from a normal station mine??

[glenmcd]

Thanks allot glenmcd.

I noticed you saying "collecting rocks" and "drilling" is there a difference between the two?? if collecting rocks mean that my ships will just take rock to a TL then I have to take them to a station mine what difference does that make from a normal station mine??

First understand that before you start any mining operation in which you are not actually piloting the ship, be out of sector ("OOS"). With rock collecting, you get to see minerals go into the cargobay of each ship collecting, but no rocks are actually removed or broken up in that sector. With the other one that requires a mobile drilling system, the ship will break up whatever rocks / asteroids there are available to get the minerals. One advantage of using the MDS route is that you get to specify which mineral you want (silicon, ore, ice). With a station mine it's completely different. You purchase a silicon mine or ore mine and build it onto an asteroid (not just a rock). Asteroids are the ones that show in the sector view. Rocks will not. you need to supply the station mines with ECs, whereas with mobile mining you don't. All you need for collecting rocks is a rock (any more than one is unnecessary), and a ship(s) that has ore collector and special command software. Any other upgrades for the ship may give you an advantage in getting to the rock faster, or perhaps allowing it to do something else when you don't want it collecting rocks. When a ship "collects rocks", it collects only. Any delivery to TL or station or even another TS is a separate step and one that often involves Commodity Logistics Software (CLS).

Another way of getting the minerals that I hadn't seen mentioned before I tried successfully last night. Each mining ship has to have special command software. Another task you can do with this software is collect wares. Eject the minerals from each of your mining ships, and select one of them to "collect all wares in sector". Then command that one ship to a TL or station. But by far the best way is to use CLS and make it a fully automated operation. This involves the most thinking and only the most talented players ever get this far. It's fortunate that one such player is still active here and in fact has already offered to share his methods. Have a read through this entire thread and you'll be able to pickup most of these.

[saco3]

I see thanks allot I really appreciate it I still didnt finish the terran plot (thought I'd get some cash and a good ship rolling before i continue) but this info will be of great help.

Thanks again i'll read through this thread.

[deca.death]

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Allright, I promised some settings, so here they come..../cut


EDIT
I moved this post and incorporated it in my first post in this thread guide (on page 1) as CAG setup part of the guide.

[chunder]

Great work - thanks, deca.death! I've been following this thread avidly (albeit unable to put anything properly into practice due to other commitments) and seeing the setting screenshots really helps.

This whole use of CLS2 is utterly fascinating - I've always disregarded it before, relying on CLS1 to move wares between factories, and CAGs to buy and sell where necessary... but as someone has pointed out elsewhere, CLS2 is extraordinarily powerful and flexible.

I never even thought about supplying energy to myself or my TLs let alone building up this kind of mobile mining network! A bit complicated to set up initially, but beats building (and running) dozens of Silicon mines hands-down. I'm planning to use Falcon Haulers to move the Silicon between the mining ships and the MMBS; a choice based on their speed and ability to hold XL cargo more than anything else. Perhaps bigger ships would be better??

Out of curiosity, which Unknown Sector are you using for this mobile mining? I've got a bunch of Demeter Miners en route to the US down below Spring of Belief - nicely out of the way, no through traffic, and I'll never need to go there.

Lastly, this whole process kind of explains why Ore Mines are able to sell Ore for 50cr, whereas the minimum break-even point is 72cr. Presumably the AI-controlled Ore Mines have fleets of mobile miners who are shipping Ore back to the mines, therefore providing more stock without the ongoing Mine running costs... now I know, I can beat them at their own game!

[kurush]

I'm planning to use Falcon Haulers to move the Silicon between the mining ships and the MMBS; a choice based on their speed and ability to hold XL cargo more than anything else. Perhaps bigger ships would be better??

In my experience one Falcon Hauler is just enough to handle another single Falcon Hauler set to mine silicon (or two Falcon Haulers set to mine ore). With bigger freighters it might be a bit more - one for 2-3 of TS class ships.