Guide to Economics; Stations and how to manage them

[cattafett]

liked this guide but just one thing
in chapter 3

Unsurprisingly, the biggest superfreighter is the Mistral Superfreighter. It's also the fastest; double score. As for the other superfreighters, the Caiman SF is next fastest

Mistral Superfreighter top speed 78
Caiman superfreighter XL top speed 89

catta

[Spychotic]

The updates appear to make the post take up more space than the maximum allowed by a post (your rules are getting snipped at the appendix section).

Ah, thankyou. Hadn't noticed that. Luckily, the bits that have been snipped are all copies of earlier bits. Looks like that post I very sensibly reserved is going to get used for some Appendices now.

Something you might want to add to your 'price fixing section' (or as an addendum as it uses the bonus pack):

You can use CLS2 to buy a competitors goods at a certain price and drop them off at your own complex. Since you can set the price to the next price drop below your own complex (some goods with a high variance may move through several credits per price drop, or production cycle - particularly high tech goods), then your complex will always have the 'cheapest' price, even through it is selling for a higher price than before.

This might be most useful if your own production of goods exceeds that of the competitors for instance consider the following case:

You produce 5 times the total ware volume compared with your competitors combined and between you only satisfy demand. Lets suppose the ware in question is energy cells and previously you could sell them for 18 credits. The total ware production would be (for instance) 1000 units per time interval for your competitors and 5000 units per time interval for yourself.

Your profits would be 90000 credits per time interval minus overheads incurred.

Now suppose you set a single CLS2 freighter to buy any wares from your competitors when they hit 18 credits and unload them at your complex. Then you were to increase your price to 19 credits at your complex. This may increase overheads, especially if your CLS2 freighter has to frequently jump (both wages and jump fuel), however:

Your profits would be 95000 credits per time interval for your own production and an additional 1000 credits per time interval minus a slightly increased overhead. At the estimate of 2000 credits per (return) jump this would still give 4000 credits per time interval profit minimum (you may find you can push your sale price higher, or the fixing price lower and still achieve the same net effect). And this is with a low margin good like energy cells (25% variance from average price, compared with for instance sunrise flowers with 75% variance from average price)

At the same time, because you have stopped the competitors prices from dropping too far below your own, you will increase demand for the goods in your complex (all 6000 units now pass through your complexes, rather than only 5000 - the 1000 units that weren't previously would have been driving prices down for your own 5000 units).

This Bonus Pack appendix is going to be huge when we're done with it! No matter, we've got the space. I don't actually use the Bonus Pack yet, just havn't got round to installing and learning it, but thanks to excellent posts like this one quoted I've got a good idea of what can be done and the economic implications thereof, and that's what this Guide is about.

liked this guide but just one thing
in chapter 3

Unsurprisingly, the biggest superfreighter is the Mistral Superfreighter. It's also the fastest; double score. As for the other superfreighters, the Caiman SF is next fastest

Mistral Superfreighter top speed 78
Caiman superfreighter XL top speed 89

catta

Not only is a version of the Caiman faster, so is a version of the Demeter. Epic fail! I will update.

Spike

[Triaxx2]

I wrote some comments on distribution and collection. Maybe it'll help you out:

Distributed Product Selling for maximum profit

Distributing your products for maximum profit, requires some expenditure of funds, but can quickly earn back the cost of the set up.

Distributed selling requires the Bonus Pack for maximum effectiveness, particularly the CLS, (Commodity Logistics Systems)

Using an energy cell complex as an example, there are two effective methods of distributing the selling of your energy cells. From the complex, CLS1, internal can be used to transport energy cells from the complex itself, to a TL sitting not far from the complex. This serves two purposes. First it increases the storage space of the complex itself, moving large numbers of cells out of the complex. Second, it allows for TL’s to reach the stock without intermediaries. From the primary Distribution TL (DTL), TS’s and TL’s may distribute from it without blocking docking ports from the complex, as well as doing so by distributing out of the primary range of the station.

From the DTL, the Product Transports (PT)’s, should move cells to distant locations, such as TL’s patrolling through industrial blocks, such as (Home of Light, Red Light, Cloudbase Southwest, and Ore Belt.), using the multi-sector patrols. These should have homebased TS’s selling within the area of patrol. In areas with local military patrols, these TL’s are relatively safe, and do not need heavy escort.

For areas that require only small numbers of energy cells, but in constant supply, TL’s with larger hangars of Falcon Haulers or other high cargo space fighters, should be used from a TL patrolling only in that sector. TS’s will probably over supply, and cost profits.

The second method, also involves a Distribution TL, but typically only uses a single TL. Instead after the initial transportation to the TL, TS’s distribute the energy cells, or other product to Equipment Docks, or Trading stations, from which CAG’s or LT’s are based. A less effective method than that with TL’s, but the infinitely greater storage capacity of stations means less management once the selling loop is initiated.

Any resource can be distributed this way, though none are required by all races like energy cells, but this does allow for transportation of wares to far flung destinations of supply, without building entirely new complexes that must be protected. Since a self-sufficient complex requires no further intervention, this method of supply can be set up before the complex is built, and simply engaged from out of sector once the complex is completed.

Uses for this method include: Producing food in the safe eastern sectors, and transporting it to the much more dangerous, but more profitable western sectors. Feeding factories that cannot be purchased by the player, such as Terran weapon factories, and Tractor Beam factories. Producing resources not produced by player factories, or complexes, or which are not needed in large quantities, with any constancy.

A modified version of this may be used to ensure resupply for combat fleets.

Distributed Product collection for efficiency of transfer

This method actually works opposite to the above method. Once the factories producing the needed product are located, TS’s are given orders to purchase all available product, and pass it to a Collection TL (CTL), from this central collection point, either within each sector, or in a central location for multiple sectors, Such as Argon Prime for Home of Light, Red Light, Ringo Moon, Cloudbase Northwest, Herron’s Nebula, The Hole, and The Wall. However, the flaw is that disparate resources mean that there’s no easy method to transfer resources to a central point. CLS works, but the variety of resources means that only highly trained CLS pilots can move enough different types to be worth the effort to transfer this way. An alternate method is to use a TS SF, as an end point for each resource, and other TS’s to transfer to the next link. A second alternative is to use a Trading Station, or Equipment Dock as a Collection point, and then TS’s, or TL’s to transfer from those stations, to the next link.

Equipment Dock’s are useful because they can be directly used as a transfer point for TL’s, and have docking spaces for TS’s transferring cargo. Trading stations can have not only TS’s transferring goods off the station, but have an endless docking capacity for fighters, both to run out and fetch the necessary materials, and also defend the station in case of attack.

The next link in the chain, depending on the purpose of resource collection should either be an equipment dock, or TL. Equipment docks are excellent for equipping capital ships with weapons, while TL’s are capable of equipping the entire fleet with the Resupply Command.

Equipment docks are excellent end points in a supply chain, because they can dock and fill TL’s, which can then transfer to fleets in the field, as well as refueling them for the trip. TL’s are a less optimal choice, simply because they have less storage space than stations, but they also are mobile and can be moved out of danger should it appear, unlike Equipment Docks which remain in place and continue to attract TS’s attempting to bring supplies, necessitating immediate action to protect it and the investment it represents.

For those areas of the universe where dangers are rampant, and protection is at a premium, M6’s make good substitutes for TS’s with a combination of speed, firepower and defensive armament. The trade-off is more trips made because of a smaller cargo hold. Since the M6’s with the largest holds are also the most combat powerful, the trade-off must be carefully weighed, trade safety vs. number of trips vs. total cargo moved.

Distributed product transfer for open complex resource efficiency

Again the method maybe adapted to another use, this one for manipulating products from multiple sources. Used correctly, this allows for complexes to be supplied across gates, giving the freedom to construct complexes normally limited by lag in ways capable of reducing lag.

For example, harnessing the Ore and Silicon asteroids of Antigone Memorial, and connecting them into a complex, or pair of complexes, and using the Distribution transfer system to move the Silicon to a Crystal Fabrication Complex, and the resulting Crystals to a Solar Power Plant complex and then energy cells back to the Silicon Mine Complex. In short, an open complex that is still self-sufficient.

However more than simply being able to supply from a single complex, each step can be supplied from multiple complexes. So multiple Silicon Complexes may supply a single Crystal Complex, or several Crystal Complexes from multiple Silicon sources. Transporting these materials directly to the complexes may not be the best course of action, and so gathering the silicon or crystals into a single TL, and transporting it with TL’s can be more efficient than even super freighters. This prevents clogging of both the distribution chain and the space lanes. TL’s moving goods without a jump drive, even those not moving through hostile sectors, such as from Antigone Memorial to Ore Belt, must be escorted at all times. Even those with jump drives should have homebased fighter protection.

The first stage of the collection process must be the setting of two central collection hub TL’s. Each complex must have two TL’s, one for incoming energy cells, one for outgoing products. Set two TS’s from each TL to collect resources. The out going chain and incoming chain may be linked, or remain unlinked depending on preference. An incoming TL may take away product to the next link in the chain. As CLS pilots gain experience, they may take over more of the chain, though this may slow production and lower efficiency. Outgoing product TL’s collect from the first link, and drop product to the second link of the chain. Again, they may take outgoing products to the next link, or simply return for more. A single TL may also be used to generate a triangular trade run, consisting of incoming energy, outgoing product to another link closer to the power source, and then a trip back with incoming energy.

The second link in the chain must have three TL’s, one for incoming product, one for out going product, and one for energy. The Energy TL requires only one TS, since it is an important, but not vital resource and because production can be stopped for lack of other resources as well.

The final link in the chain needs only two TL’s, one for incoming product, one for outgoing energy.

Outgoing products may be distributed as described above to multiple purchasers, as well as being fed back into the production chain. Using multiple production complexes provides valuable flow control, keeping control in your hands, and allowing you to siphon excess product for sale to outside buyers, or to draw in outside products to cover any gaps in supply. Combining this with the above methods gains you the ability to command and control a huge empire with a minimum of management.

Exceptional uses for this method include feeding oversized complexes without further increasing lag, by distributing the food production and energy generation.

Working with all three strategies you can take control of the entire economy, without saturating it beyond what it can hold without breaking.

[Infekted]

Wow thats a lot to take in... But some good stuff there.

What would make my X3 life complete, would be being able to run CAG in ships homebased to a TL. Basically use the TL as a mini trade station.

[Triaxx2]

Well, that's the reason for the TL's as bases, so they're moving to continually adjust how far the sellers are going for those best sales. Or you can use CLS to pre-select destinations and they'll only sell at high prices. Requires some fine tuning, but can be done.

[Infekted]

Well yes, with a lot of messing around you could use CLS to achieve an effect somewhat similar.
But it'd be no where near as good as an intelligent "best" buyer/seller. There is a script which allows best buy/sell TS's to operate from a TL. I like to use it extensively in my modded game. CAG would be much better tho.

WTB CAG2

[Twest09]

Wow thats a lot to take in... But some good stuff there.

What would make my X3 life complete, would be being able to run CAG in ships homebased to a TL. Basically use the TL as a mini trade station.

EDTI: Disregard the following comment made by me. I went back and investigated further and discovered that it is a bug. The M6, TM, TP, TS, and M7 classes were given an option to dock but they just ended up moving to position of the Atmo and then sitting there. I was confused because it was shown as a viable dock for an M6 under the Navigation Menu's "Dock At" command.

[qoute=twest09]Blah.....[/quote]

To add something useful! Don't forget the Falcon Hauler, it still has XL cargo capability. You can CLS him but not CAG.... since you can't add a ware list to a TL.

[Catra]

you cant actually dock at the lifter, nonfighter ships will just idle near it.

[Eisenkalle]

*Sorry for bumping* (down to page 17)

Actually I stumbled upon this thread while looking for something else, but I like it. From my point of view it is a very useful guide, for beginners and also for experts.

You wrote a great deal about the basic economic principles (microeconomics, etc.) regarding X3TC. Nearly all of the principles you described are quite familiar to me and my gaming style. Most of the descriptions fit my intuition of commerce&industry related behaviour. For example buy low, sell high or look for (high) supply of a certain good and (high) demand for a certain good in certain sector and simply fill the gap (EC, food, minerals, etc.).

There is one thing I want to complement:

Chapter 3; Freighters and salesmen

This section is all about how to choose a fleet of transporters.

The choice of freighter for a given task can make or break your factory. The principle tradeoff that has to be made is speed vs. cargo capacity.

Generally, faster transporters tend to be smaller, whilst slower transporters tend to be bigger.

Rule coming up;

Rule No. 3; Speed is more important than cargo capacity in a freighter.

OK for most of the time a faster TS is more handy and prefered, rather than a slow Tanker/Superfreighter.

There are some exceptions. After several time of observation I tend to use at least one or two bulk freighters (namely - Mistral Superfreighter). Bulk goods, from my point of view, are XL wares. Namely bulk goods are ore, silicon and (not XL but "bulk") energy cells.

For example, I run a small satellite complex in Paranid Prime (5xNavSat + 5x AdvSat). I added a (small) Mistral for each needed ware (silicon, maja and energy cells). I let it be and went my ways. Later on I made a routine check of my assets and saw a dried out stock of energy cells and silicon (maybe of my "buy" pricing, but the TS had the chance to get the needed wares around my own suppliers, like mines or SPPs, in neighbouring Argon/Paranid sectors). My observation was, that especially the bulk wares were a problem, because of the lack of bulk room in the (small) Mistrals. They were on the run, got the goods, but it was not enough to feed the production cycle long enough or build up stocks. OK I could have added a second or third (small) Mistral, but I decided to switch the silicon/ec TS from (small) Mistrals to Mistrals SF. One Mistral SF for energy cells, one for silicon. They mostly fetch a good price below average prices. I set energy cells to max. 14 Credits and silicon to max. 330 Credits. Maja never was a problem, just around the corner was enough for min. 9 Credits. my intention was to reduce tours and deliver alot mor ressources at the same time for an acceptable price. THough I choose the Mistral SF.

Another example is a cahoona complex I set up in "the Wall" (6xL without ranches, bought extern). I used four Mistrals for buying EC (max. 14 Credits@6 sectors). I stopped them and started using one Mistral SF, later added a second. Works fine, stock is 3/4+ full of energy cells.

In general I simply used Mistrals for everything. After several testruns I decided to devide bulk goods (EC/minerals only!) from the other needed ressources for production and use (depending on size of the complex) Superfreighters exclusivly only for bulk goods and normal TS for the other goods (buy&sell).

This idea has two advantages. First it saves you at least 1-2 ships. As a sidenote: Imho money DOES count in the beginning of the game, without doing combat missions, or avoiding them (like I do, keeping comabt rank low). Second, even if the SF are slower (time is money!), they mostly fetch a good price, with double or triple the amount of goods, a common TS can hold. This also reduces tours and conserves more docking ports at the complex or (single) station(s) and is a lot easier to organize within your asset list.

Many thanks again for your fantastic piece of work. It is really worth reading the full course. Since the information you provide is especially good edited, so everyone can understand it and than enjoy the practical use.

[Spychotic]

There's an unwritten Forum rule that says that Guides and Walkthroughs are considered permanently active and hence the whole idea of necromancy is sort of totally invalidated. This is especially true of Guides like this one that have been included in the Ultimate X Resource. Suggest you check it out first if you're looking for anything. So do not hesitate to post here, regardless of the time it's been since the last post.

As for the point you make on exceptions to Rule 3; yes. I'm fully aware and was trying to keep it fairly simple. Nevertheless, thanks for pointing it out, as I'm always looking to expand the content and I agree that there's something useful to be said here that isn't said. Like you say, more experienced hands can also benefit.

Updated.

Spike

[Eisenkalle]

Haha being a little considerate can not be wrong.

Thank you for the hint.

Originally I was looking for in-detail station/complex management (something abstract like the "Trading Station Network"). Than I read through your guide...

[Triaxx2]

This is one of the many reasons that I often double up on certain types of traders. Energy is the best example, though crystals work just as well.

Rather than relying entirely on TS's, which as you mentioned haul a lot, but sometimes take too much time, I also have a handful of 'Energy Supplement' traders on non-SS complexes. These are M5's, or M4's, which don't haul a lot, but haul enough to make a difference and keep the cycle going while the TS traders make their runs. An M5 moving 60 energy doesn't sound like much, until you realize that the complex needs 60 energy to keep up the cycle until the TS returns, because the energy per TS trip is equal to cycle time -1.

(If the TS is away 10 cycles, and the energy it brings is only 9 cycles worth for example.)

Alternatively, this can push the balance of a complex over. So if it's using exactly as much as the TS is bringing, adding just a few cells to the complex each trip from the M5 will eventually build up a reserve, without the expense of adding another TS. Not so helpful late game when you've got a TL full of energy that the TS is delivering from, but early game it's very useful. Especially if you have to pull a bunch of money from the plex for a big purchase for example. Then it can continue to run and make money where a complex relying on constant TS input might not be able to do so.

Once you break the 50mil mark that you're maintaining a cash flow at, this is probably no longer necessary.

[Spychotic]

I've made a few miscellaneous updates to correct typos and enhance clarity.

Despite rewriting it once already a few months ago, I'm slightly concerned that the sectons of this Guide on price setting, particularly for complexes, may be a little confused and may not read right to other people. If anyone agrees and can point out an offending clause, please do so.

Spike

[claygalvin]

Its highly likely I have a Terran/Argon bias.... I HATE Paranid.....

but anyway... I have only one big complex in my main game at the moment, and for me Asteroid Belt is where its at. Mind you I'm not trying ot sell much at the moment, but Computer Components and Microchips are always selling fast. I'm selling Microchips for 1600......
Correction.... Microchips 15500, computer Components 1500

Here's what i've got in there anyway.... 100% Self sufficient.

CFA Forge
Chip Plant x2 (Might build more in a minute)
Computer Plant
Crystal Fab L x4
FAA Forge
Hammer Torp Fac x2
HEPT Forge
PAC Forge
PPC Forge x2
Shield Fac 1MJ, 2GJ, 200MJ and 25MJ (May add a 1GJ laterbut have no need at the mo)
Cahoona Bakery L x6
Rastar Refinery L
Sun Oil x2
Cattle Ranch L x8
Chelt Aquarium L x3
Flower Farm L x3
Teladianium L x3
Ore Mine L x2
Silicon Mine L x3
Solar Power XL x2

I use L's or XL's. I don't see any point in pissing around with M's. All are Argon except where thats Impossible. Primarily Purchased from Legend's Home. I capped and outfitted my own Mammoths cos I hate paying for someone to take forever to get where I want them. The Teladi Stations came from Ceo's Sprite and the Split ones from Patriarchs Conclusion.

Now the only question I have.. IS can I or can I not fit an EQ dock to my complex? I've tried a few times, but don't seem to be able to. Is it a positional issue or just not possible? I would love to be able to dock my Boreas and Mammoths atmy own complex.

Any suggestions or critisisms welcomed regarding my complex set up too

[Spychotic]

No, you cannot fit docks or trading stations to your complex.

Having a resupply base for capital ships is a nice idea, but Equipment Docks simply don't have the cargo capacity to handle the quantities of wares required to do it. I mean, they can hold a few thousand Energy Cells, but that's only enough for one of my own Mammoths to live on. I can make it work by using a pair of superfreighters to resupply (they'll refill the whole stock immediately when it's cleaned out) but the same thing can't easily be done with other wares like missiles. A Dock will hold (I think) eight Hammers at once. This means that an M7M can only be resupplied with 8 Hammers when it docks at its homebase. If you want to load more, you have to do it manually, but then what's the point of having an automatic system in the first place?

The answer is Supply Command and the Bonus Pack scripts for such wares as weapons and ammo. For Energy Cells, the dock idea is workable.... but you must have it seperate to your Complex.

Spike

[[PPGA] EnDeR]

Im very new to this game and i absolutely love it, but I've run across a problem that is really frustrating me. I have set up a few stations and i want to supply them with resources. So I have bought some mercurys and set up their home bases so they can just buy ware for best price. problem is this. When i choose buy ware for best price the ship in question will just sit at its home station and do nothing. its command says that it is going to a solar power plant, but its action says none. When i try to do the buy ware manually, the ship will just go back and forth between the station and its homebase repeatedly without ever purchasing any resources. what am i doing wrong?

[Eisenkalle]

Hi,

you have to deposit money on the stations account.

Homebased ships will use the account of the station, not your general account. Try to deposit some money on the stations account. If the ships do not start moving, re-start the "best buy" command.

[[PPGA] EnDeR]

thanks for the help!! Depositing money into my stations account worked like a charm. I have another question though. One of the products for one of my stations is the resource for another of my stations. How do I transfer the product over to the other station using one of my own ships?

[Eisenkalle]

NP!

Are these stations in the same sector or in different sectors?

1. When they are in the same sector you can connect them with the complex construction kit (if you did not know already, otherwise read 2!). It connects two station to a complex and you can buy it at every shipyard (needs a TL! same price everywhere, no race difference). You can set up different stations, for example a Ranch L + a Cahoona L and connect them with the kit. Now you only have to buy energy cells.

X3TC Walkthrough Video Tutorial Series (Part 11)

2. When they are in different sectors, you can use a ship. Install the CLS 1 software and erm I have never used it before. So before I write something false about the CLS 1 software, you should look here:

[INDEX] Overview - X3TC Bonus Package 4.1.01 how to set up the CLS software.

[[PPGA] EnDeR]

they are in the same sector but they have already been built. can a complex construction kit be used on existing stations or do they still have to be in the freight bay of the transport ship?