X-Rebirth No piloting Capital ships!!??

[Nanook]

Why is it so hard to just admit that this is baseless speculation?

Because until you can use positive evidence to dispell it, it's not baseless.

Negative evidence (i.e. "they didn't say we couldn't") isn't enough to invalidate the question.

Of course it is, that's not all there is to it, but it certainly is enough.

If its not baseless, then why hasn't anyone been able to elaborate why it isn't? Everyone just gets huffypuffy and storms out in defeat because they got nothing.

And your speculation is also baseless, unless you have some sort of proof the rest of us don't.

Basically, both sides are neither right nor wrong at this point because there is no evidence confirming either speculation. So please give the 'yes it is/no it isn't' arguing a rest, ok? It's getting old.

[Catra]

Why is it so hard to just admit that this is baseless speculation?

Because until you can use positive evidence to dispell it, it's not baseless.

Negative evidence (i.e. "they didn't say we couldn't") isn't enough to invalidate the question.

Of course it is, that's not all there is to it, but it certainly is enough.

If its not baseless, then why hasn't anyone been able to elaborate why it isn't? Everyone just gets huffypuffy and storms out in defeat because they got nothing.

And your speculation is also baseless, unless you have some sort of proof the rest of us don't.

Basically, both sides are neither right nor wrong at this point because there is no evidence confirming either speculation. So please give the 'yes it is/no it isn't' arguing a rest, ok? It's getting old.

What's getting old is people giving me this run around.

You have no proof, you have no reasoning, you got absolutely nothing.

My speculation is very far from baseless, and no I'm not going to waste my time explaining it since noone else seems to care to explain why no flying = no getting onto your ship.

[Nanook]

Didn't I just say to give it a rest? Or do you just have to have the last word on everything? Enough is enough. This is an official moderator action, so before you think of replying, make sure you understand the rules.

[Dreez]

Wait a minute..

OK. So lets say for the sake of argument that we will not be able to pilot
capital ships, but we will be able to buy some. Does that mean that we
are going to have our multi-milion capital ships piloted by the same idiot-AI
that flew the fighters straight into the IBL-fireballs and flakk-fire from
other ships ?.

I don't know about you people, or the devs of this new X3 game, but i don't
want a moronic AI to handle my dearly invested battleship and fly it without
dodging fire, or at least try to.

[ConCorDian]

why is everyone so caught up in this? yes getting to buy some big kick A£$E cap ship and crawl about the universe killing pretty much everything in sight was fun.. i agree but the counter arguement is valid, a capship is not a 1 man fighter, if the fleet control is done properly then yes i think they got everything covered...

the AI i think is the clincher, from what i read especially about the OOS combat coding im not sure how much better this new AI will be, but that said there is one aspect nobody is taking into account:

"Will the game support modding? - Yes, we're not changing our philosophy. We'll open up the games to the fans and work with them. The foundations of this have long-since been established through our forums and its embedded 'DevNet'."

simple as if we aint overly keen on how it works im sure somebody out there will have the knowhow to fix the issue

[jlehtone]

Does that mean that we are going to have our multi-milion capital ships piloted by the same idiot-AI that flew the fighters straight into the IBL-fireballs and flakk-fire from other ships ?.

Going? In every game so far we have done so, unless you did buy only one big ship and always did fly it personally. Every moment, which you are not in the ship or it is not under the influence of rather static 'None', are the gerbils ruling.

And yes, being able to hand over the control to the AI is very desirable. In the current games it is the true test of valor, but for years we have yearned for much better implementation.


@ConCorDian: Current games already do support modding, yet their hardcode sets nasty limits to what the mods can do and achieve. Just like we hope for better AI, we hope for improved API.

[The-Last-Communist]

im shure we can buy the battleships , but not fly theme via the bridge but ``remote controlle`` teme with the target window (you can do that sins x2)

[AkrionXxarr]

Wait a minute..

OK. So lets say for the sake of argument that we will not be able to pilot
capital ships, but we will be able to buy some. Does that mean that we
are going to have our multi-milion capital ships piloted by the same idiot-AI
that flew the fighters straight into the IBL-fireballs and flakk-fire from
other ships ?.

I don't know about you people, or the devs of this new X3 game, but i don't
want a moronic AI to handle my dearly invested battleship and fly it without
dodging fire, or at least try to.

Well I can't imagine they would remove your direct control of Capital ships without changing the AI from how it currently is. I'm sure even the Devs would agree that the AI from the previous games wasn't well designed for handling capital ships. I have no doubt that the Devs are making notable changes in this regard, I just have concerns over if it will be enough to warrant loss of direct control when in tough situations.

My biggest concern with losing direct control would pretty much be situations where the AI is being silly, because unless you can instruct the AI along a path and have them disregard potential collisions (which would be awesome), then I could see a situation where a capital ship some how gets its self stuck in a dense asteroid field and is forever looping around with its 'collision avoidance' trying to get out / around it.

[Mightysword]

To procasinate a bit: I seriously doubt manuever in Rebirth gonna be like what we know in X right now so the AI is kinda a moot point IMO. To create an AI that's anywhere as good as a player with the current combat model is an uphill battle. AI is still one of "the" problem in programming in general, not just game, defense contractors still have headache to come up with a good simulator for specific combat scenario in term of evasion pattern in 3D space, or even troop movement in 2D. And the few algorithm that I see "relatively" working requires the kind of resource or runtime that make them not exactly feasible for a normal computer or a game. Coming up with an AI that can pose a challenge for human is hard, coming up with an AI that can replace one without rage ... seem impossible for me in this scenario. I'm up for a suprise, but if this is the path Egosoft is taking, I can almost guarantee it will be bad. I doubt it's what they're trying to do though.

Even if we're given a RTS layer to control our fleet like Homeword, I doubt it's reponsive enough to replace the direct control under the current cap ship model (AI fire and evade like dodfighting). Piecing what we have so far (from how Egosoft seem to emphasize on "interaction", to the lack of ability to actually fly), some how I think the cap ship combat won't be much about maneuver anymore, at least not in the dodging the bullet sense we have currently. I'm guessing what we have will be in form of passive buff and debuff (like formation bonus, flanking pelnaty ...etc...) or things like launching counter measure or firing disruptor shot. Just a speculation of course

[greypanther]

If it goes like Homeworld, well I wll play Homweworld and not bother with X4

[Catra]

If it goes like Homeworld, well I wll play Homweworld and not bother with X4

Cause wanting what's arguably the best RTS control scheme which would fit perfectly in X would make it so much like homeworld we could effectively call it a skippable clone of it.

Seriously dude.....

[Fulgrymm]

You don't necessarily have to agree with someone's opinion, but is it too much to ask that you accept that different opinions exist, and move on?

[AkrionXxarr]

If it goes like Homeworld, well I wll play Homweworld and not bother with X4

I doubt anything like this would be the case. The trailer alone still feels very much 'Egosoft', and there'd be no need to design a cockpit if it were anything like Homeworld.

[Kong]

"Commander, launch fighters. Gun batteries defense grid.
Fleet, this is Galactica actual. Jump!"

[beckoner]

Wait a minute..

OK. So lets say for the sake of argument that we will not be able to pilot
capital ships, but we will be able to buy some. Does that mean that we
are going to have our multi-milion capital ships piloted by the same idiot-AI
that flew the fighters straight into the IBL-fireballs and flakk-fire from
other ships ?.

I don't know about you people, or the devs of this new X3 game, but i don't
want a moronic AI to handle my dearly invested battleship and fly it without
dodging fire, or at least try to.

Capital ships shouldn't be able to dodge anything. They should have the weaponry/ancillary craft to intercept/destroy
most incoming, and the hull/shield to deal with whats left over.

In RL : a Carrier only moves for two reasons :
a) to position itself correctly for its current area of operations or
b) to avoid the enemy locating it.

The idea of a Carrier being able to avoid incoming missiles by any kind of manouvering is somwhat bemusing. The
helmsman is pretty much a truck driver rather than a fighter pilot. Captain says :go there, and he does, attempting
not to hit any bits of land that are inconveniently in the way.

If i'm on my Carrier, i'd much rather be in charge of my other assets, using/directing them to obtain my objectives. A little bit of Homeworld style asset management when in Station/Capital would, for me, make the later stages of the game far more manageable.

[THE_TrashMan]

Given that WW2 capital ships did dodge torpedos, I say you are nto correct....from a factual standpoint.

Realisticly, even capital ships will/should be manouverable enough to sometimes dodge a shot.

However, if that makes for ebtter gameplay or not is very debatable.

[greypanther]

From what little I have seen Catra is not capable of seeing anyone elses opinion as even remotely valid.

Personally I felt the Homeworld series was one of the best and yes somethings could fit into the x games. I just hope it is not too much like it.

*edit* I agree incidently that from the trailer its not likely.

[Rive]

If it goes like Homeworld...

If the capship management goes like in Homeworld (and it's still an X game) then I will rush to buy it.

[ConCorDian]

Given that WW2 capital ships did dodge torpedos, I say you are nto correct....from a factual standpoint.

Realisticly, even capital ships will/should be manouverable enough to sometimes dodge a shot.

However, if that makes for ebtter gameplay or not is very debatable.

WW2 capital ships couldn't dodge torpeado's, the whole point was "capital ships" back then had to rely on early detection in order to avoid it, not only that but guided warheads were as good as non existant back then.

there is also the point where space warfare is based largly on the submarine warfare model, and again now a days with the forms of guided ordinance you can get the only hope of avoiding the topeado's is early detection or countermeasures.


i cant remember who exactly said it but i agree with the fact cap ships should be big and lumbersome, their heavy hulls and sheilds are their defence, that and any support craft they have along. their duty is to bring heavy ass firepower to where its needed not to be the be all and end all of vessels.

[Mightysword]

I said this like ... a few years back? But it would be awesome the cap ship combat is like the anime series Starship Operator. Not sure how it would translate into gameplay, but it sure was something different