Trump

Grim Lock · Post by **Grim Lock** » Wed, 17. Aug 16, 19:12

Timsup2nothin wrote:Don't mistake winning the Republican nomination for doing well. The Republicans have cultivated that crowd of "how I feel is the real, facts are for fools" voters for a LONG time, but they are a two edged sword.

To win the nomination you have to appeal to them, which makes it obvious to everyone else that you are a nut. Then you have to pivot and convince the people outside the 'faithful' that you were only pretending to be a nut, which makes it obvious to EVERYBODY that you are a liar.

Strategies for balancing those problems range from the Romney "I'm just barely a nut so I only have to lie a little bit" to the Bush "I'm not a nut, but look I'll make a REAL nut my VP" to the McCain "listen up you nuts, we're gonna get crushed if we put up a nut right now so just settle down." Trump is trying the "I'm really a nut and proud of it too" plan, which has the nuts REALLY excited but doesn't seem like it has any prospect of working. What the heck though, they are running out of options.

O i know hes not doing very well, but that doesn't mean he has an impressively large and scary following though. IM dutch and the netherlands is only populated by about 16million people. i bet trump has more diehard followers than we have people living here. it's like that santorum guy proclaiming during one of his speeches that we send old people to the hospital to have them euthanised against their will..... now that he told such a blatant lie was bad, but that during that video you hear the crowd gasp in shock and horror is what anoys me. Sheeple. So trump like santorum doesnt really scare me, its their followers, if those people lose a trump or whatever they simply put a new figurehead up there and wait for him to dispense the thruths they want to hear. Instead of getting a proper education like they should.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Wed, 17. Aug 16, 20:58

Oh I agree that the idea of people supporting Trump is scary. And yes, there are undoubtedly more of them than there are people in the Netherlands. But in the scale of the United States even thirty million genuine idiots is still less than 10% of the population.

Chips · Post by **Chips** » Wed, 17. Aug 16, 21:42

Isn't Trump toasted? Thought he was pretty much a dead dog in a race...

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Wed, 17. Aug 16, 21:48

Chips wrote:Isn't Trump toasted? Thought he was pretty much a dead dog in a race...

He is trailing badly, but there is a long road to the election. I anticipate at least one swiftboat like maneuver is in the cards, probably more, so there is no sure thing.

felter · Post by **felter** » Thu, 22. Sep 16, 22:51

okay so it not Trump but he is mentioned.

Between Two Ferns

clakclak · Post by **clakclak** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 00:44

Timsup2nothin wrote:
Chips wrote:Isn't Trump toasted? Thought he was pretty much a dead dog in a race...
He is trailing badly, but there is a long road to the election. I anticipate at least one swiftboat like maneuver is in the cards, probably more, so there is no sure thing.

Btw if anyone wants an overview over diverse polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5491.html

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 06:20

clakclak wrote:Btw if anyone wants an overview over diverse polls: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls ... -5491.html

Thanks! It's interesting to see the ebb-and-flow of public opinion.

But, it doesn't make me any less concerned that we're making decisions to vote for "worse or worser" candidates. The US public is definitely "voting against" and not "voting for" in this election.

I think I am going to vote for my neighbor's dog for President. She's a cool dog, very nice, friendly, housebroken and visits hospitals and retirement homes, spreading joy to children and seniors, alike. Sounds like a pretty good candidate, in my opinion. She's got my vote!

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 18:30

It occurs to me that we could end up in a situation where both candidates withdraw from the race.

Likely? Probably not but when Mrs Clinton was accused of being unwell, and Mr Trump accused of fraud I did wonder.

I know it's probably just the usual mud that gets flung in US elections but for the sake of argument, suppose it were to happen. What would be the procedure then?

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 19:32

brucewarren wrote:It occurs to me that we could end up in a situation where both candidates withdraw from the race.

Likely? Probably not but when Mrs Clinton was accused of being unwell, and Mr Trump accused of fraud I did wonder.

I know it's probably just the usual mud that gets flung in US elections but for the sake of argument, suppose it were to happen. What would be the procedure then?

If a candidate withdraws each party has a procedure for nominating a new candidate. It's basically a meeting of the chairmen of the state parties where they vote their delegate counts. If that doesn't produce a candidate or those chairmen vote to do so for whatever reason then they reconvene the convention.

That said, the constant drumbeat of "Clinton is too sick" got a boost from her minor bout of pneumonia, but she isn't going anywhere. And a few new fraud cases against Trump aren't going to make him withdraw any quicker than the numerous outstanding cases he was already facing would.

greypanther · Post by **greypanther** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 20:42

Is it just me, or has the run-up to this election, seemed to have been going on for years? It is a wonder that anything gets done in US politics, when half of the Presidents term in office, is spoiled by the build up to the next one!

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 20:53

Not just you. American campaigns always take this long.

The cynic in me thinks it's deliberate. By the time the candidate is in office people are all so exhausted from all the campaigning that they no longer care what the man does when he's finally in the big chair.

I reckon that's how George Dubya got away with so much. To have got rid of him would have meant another election and folks were to exhausted from the previous one to want that.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Fri, 23. Sep 16, 20:58

brucewarren wrote:
I reckon that's how George Dubya got away with so much. To have got rid of him would have meant another election and folks were to exhausted from the previous one to want that.

Worse. Getting rid of GWBush wouldn't have caused an unscheduled election. The US has absolutely no provision for that. Getting rid of Dick Vader Cheney's puppet would have put Dick Vader Cheney directly in charge.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 12:32

Anyone care to go through that debate then? Not being an American I find it a tad hard to figure out things like:

1: Who won.
2: Is this even a thing someone *can* win?
3: Who told the least lies...

A5PECT · Post by **A5PECT** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 12:46

Who won the debate largely depends on which major US party's echo chamber you decide to tune into.

My take: Donald Trump tried to not be Donald Trump. That lasted all of 20 minutes, then he proceeded to make an ass out of himself for the rest of the one and a half hour debate. Hillary Clinton won by baiting Trump into self-destructing, then managing to stay (mostly) clear of the blast zone.

As for who lied less: you get three guesses, and the first two don't count.

PolitiFact

NYTimes - Autoplay Video Warning on all links -

CNN

If you have a few hours to kill and feel like losing that last bit of faith you didn't know you still had in US politics, I recommend watching it (actual debate begins approximately 57 minutes in).

jack775544 · Post by **jack775544** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 14:17

A5PECT wrote:If you have a few hours to kill and feel like losing you last bit of faith you didn't know you still had in US politics, I recommend watching it (actual debate begins approcimately 57 minutes in).

I watched it live and found it got progressively funnier as it continued on.
Trump continuously butting in and being generally being rude looked really unprofessional, and some of the accusations were so wrong that it was funny.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 14:24

A5PECT wrote: PolitiFact

NYTimes - Autoplay Video Warning on all links -

CNN

Hilarious.....

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 17:27

A5PECT wrote:Who won the debate largely depends on which major US party's echo chamber you decide to tune into.

There's some early polling out that shows Clinton supporters believing she won the debate 93 to three (no surprise) but Trump supporters believing he won the debate only 56 to 32 (surprise). Even Breitbart, which is deep in the heart of Trumpland, only came up with a 75/25 split for Trump.

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 17:39

Polls schmolls. I don't trust polls.

According to the polls Britain voted to stay in the EU. A certain person was so confident of the result that he had his speeches all lined up for how he was going to complain that it was rigged against him and how it didn't count. He was completed caught off guard when the real result came in and he'd won.

Ditto the last general election. Polls said a hung parliament or a slim narrow victory for labour. What we got was a flat out win by the conservatives.

So polls? Meh. As someone who I can't remember said the only poll that counts is the actual election.

Timsup2nothin · Post by **Timsup2nothin** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 17:57

Far as I know "who won the first debate" is not on the ballot for resolution.

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Tue, 27. Sep 16, 18:27

It's not

But this is America. How can it not be ?

Seriously though, that raises the question what is the point of these debates? Are they just fluff for the television or they meant to give people info for the voting later?

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Trump