Combat Mod 3 (Official Topic)

[paulwheeler]

All you miss out on with the CMOD not being 2.7.1 compatible is the notoriety fixes for a couple of missiles and the new sound effects for the CFA and FAA.

Other than that it works perfectly fine with 2.7.1.

[CasualT]

After updating to 2.7.1 I've found I can no longer use CMOD3 or else it claims all my save games are corrupt. I'm using Steam if that makes a difference.

Also, if I ask X Plugin Manager to uninstall it, it still leaves my saves "corrupt". I have to go into Steam and let it re-verify my local files to get my game back to the point where my saves work again.

It's disappointing because I had been using it up until 2.7.1 came out and now ship combat is too fast and arcade-like

[Ragemaster9999]

i am using and have been using cmod3 with 2.7.1 for several days without issue. Im not sure what you may be doing wrong, but it works great for me. However, framerate can actully be worse than normal, oddly enough.

If i could just change cmod gfx to normal and keep the sounds and gameplay changes, it would be great. Playing vanilla and listening to flak endlessley loop in combat is irratatign as all hell.

[paulwheeler]

i am using and have been using cmod3 with 2.7.1 for several days without issue. Im not sure what you may be doing wrong, but it works great for me. However, framerate can actully be worse than normal, oddly enough.

If i could just change cmod gfx to normal and keep the sounds and gameplay changes, it would be great. Playing vanilla and listening to flak endlessley loop in combat is irratatign as all hell.

Its not a simple as just deleting a file. CMOD actually appends new effects to the effects file rather than modify the original effects, so if you just revert to the vanilla effects, the weapons would be looking for effects that don't exist anymore. I think you'd have to modify TLasers, TBullets etc. to use the vanilla effect numbers while keeping the updated sounds.

I can't say I've ever noticed a framerate drop with CMOD. I do notice the drop when I revert to vanilla though. For me, I can't play X3 without the CMOD.


FYI - CMOD3 should work fine with 2.7.1. All you are missing out on is the new Flak sound effects (which are not as good as the CMOD flak effects IMO) and the rep fixes on a couple of missiles.

I would check your cat/dat files. It is most likely that installing the patch may have overwritten one of your cat/dat files, e.g. the CMOD one. In this case you could get corrupt saves.

I think the main game cat/dats are 1 - 12 now. so mods should start at 13.

If you manage to get a save working without any mods installed, I would suggest that you fly to an empty sector (an unknown one is usually pretty empty) and save there before you try to reinstall any mods.

Most save game corruptions are due to changing mods while in sector with lots of ships that get changed by the mods. If you're in an empty sector (and you may even have to eject from your ship and jump that to another sector) most mods will install fine.

[CasualT]

Hooray! I deleted everything and re-downloaded X3 TC from Steam. After that I applied the CMOD3 and some other mods and everything worked out great. I'm not sure what was wrong earlier, but I'm glad everything is working out now

[Ragemaster9999]

hmm interesting point, I actully changed between cmod and vanilla multiple times in different sectors with active fights going on to see the difference, none of my games are corrupted, as far as i can tell, they all load, however it seems like there could be a mem leak or something. I noticed that the longer i stay in one sector and pewpew, the laggier it gets. 10 fps by the time i blew up the boron trading station in lucky planets... using one frigate and 5 fighters, taking roughly 30 mins without seta. There was no large boron defense fleet just the run of the mill traders passing by that kept being slaughtered by my fighters.

I didnt realise changing between van and cmod caused problems. I hadnt noticed anything abnormal apart from performance issue, ie slowness of fps in sectors that arent too bad. game still loads fine,

Any suggestions? i am gonna do a complete wipe of TC and a clean install using steam, just to be sure. if my savegame is "corrupted" does that mean it wont load or there is still lingering effects, that may be causing drop of FPS on a game that well exceeds requirements

my saves loads fine but perforamnce isnt where it should be

Also, when i first install cmod3, where should i do it? I always just installed it right after starting a new game, when im floating in space at the beginning. Whats this about empty sectors, sorry a tad confused.

Even with a clean install and proper cat/dat order/changes, will my old savegame be cured or should i start a new one proper?

Thanks

[Ragemaster9999]

Another issue to cmod3, unrelated to performance/GFX/sound, is the actual combat mechanics. The primary problem is shield and weapon dmg.

Three problems here let me outline them, and talk about each one and the reasons behind. This is from a cmod3 perspect vs a vanilla perspective and why i wish there was a balance between the two...


---------- Fighters vs fighters -----------

I think vanilla wins here, in vanilla dogfights are more faster paced and a few good shots on an opponent can leave him vulnrable, as shields do not regen hardly at all. Fighters that lose hull are dead in the water and dogfights feel like dogfights not extended battles that take forever to resolve. Also it seems that fighters have smaller hitboxes and or signatures and better speed than cmod. Fighters in vanilla rely on speed and damage, not tanking ability to win the day. I prefer vanilla fighter battles, they feel more destructive and fast paced twitch like

In cmod3, fighters vs fighters combat takes too long to resolve. Shield regen rates are out of control, placing several good hits on an enemy fighter is not enough. You have to continually hammer round after round into them for a good while for a enemy fighter to die. Hull amount is way to high on fighters imo. The shield regens even occur when a ship is badly damaged and in deep structure. The end result is fighters have too much survivability. I cant count the number of times chasing that fast M5/m4 in my m4 and it took over 3 minutes took forever to kill because of the ai dodge /weaving combined with near instant shield replenishment. Annoying to say the least.

----------Capital Ship vs Capital Ship ---------

I feel this is where CMOD3 really shines, and vanilla lacks in. In comparison to cmod fighter battles, capital ship battles feel like extended sieges with lots of pewpew going on and massive shield /tanking ability. In particular, M1,M2,M7 in CMOD are imo much better balanced. In vanilla it is rather anti climatic to see two destroyers start shooting eachother and one of them go into a supernova within 15 seconds. In cmod3 cap fights last long and its cool to see them go down in a blaze of glory. I feel capital vs capital warfare in cmod3 is spot on..

---------Capital ship vs fighter wing ------------

I feel vanilla wins here, in cmod3 fighters, with their insane shield regen, are overpowered vs enemy capitals. Capital ship anti fighter weapons such as flak cluster and flak artillery feel almost useless in cmod3. Five boron makos were able to take my pirate carrack down. It took them several minutes of continually fireing HEPT at the carrack, which is fine, but my carrack was unable to land any decent hits on them using flak even with mars. Any good shield hit were nullified by the regen rates combined with the ai bob and weave technique.

In vanilla you would need a good amount of fighters to overwhelm a single capital ship, and it would take several minutes of pewpew. Also fighters in vanilla are much more fragile, so if they take a direct flak hit they die... In cmod3 watching a lone M2/M7/m6 fight a half dozen heavy fighters is akin to watching a boe constrictor slowly strangle its helpless pray.

----------Transporter ships in cmod3------------

Transporters have way too much tank. I seen boron ships with as much as FIVE TO SIX 200 mj shield equipped dolphins. I mean what the heck? It takes my 4 nova raiders atleast 30 seconds of HEPT rain to down one... which leads me to my final issue with cmod, collisions!

--------- Big ships are bulldozers problem ---------------

In cmod3, particularly when flying slower more shielded ships, sometimes the best way to kill that mission target, transporter bomber or m3, is not to shoot them but to... yep, RAM THEM WITH A BIGGER SHIP. When flying my carrack I find it more effective to use it as a giant bulldozer than an actual gunboat. M6 under neath my belly lighting me up? Cant hit it with my own guns using mars??? Cut speed to 0, wait for that annoying centuar to circle in front of my carracks bow, then ram the accelerator, and slam into them with the force of a moving locomotive. Just like a train hitting a semitruck, my m7 frigate will plow right through the m6 1-shot-killing it and keep on going without even breaking a sweat.


--- Last issue, maybe a unrelated script bug-----

In cmod3 i feel that no matter what ship i am flying, as the player i am always the primary target. Whether in a m3 or a corvette, the enemy ai will always prefer to shoot at me over any of my countless wingman or npcs that are also in the battle. Even witnessed two npc destroyers engaging each other broadside to broadside,, one being friendly and one being hostile.

I wasn't even taking part in the battle merely spectating but once i got within 10 km to the hostile M2 the destroyer stopped shooting the other destroyer that was messing his day up at point blank and started streaming PPC rounds at ME in my blastclaw. Of course i evaded all of the ppc rounds which took a lot of damage away from the friendly destroyer who might have died otherwise.

I guess threat management is something in cmod3 i would like to see improved. When a hostile m2 disregards the other npc M2 bearing death down upon its shields in order to start chasing my blastclaw that poses no threat at 10 km somethings horribly wrong. In vanilla battles I feel like any average joe pilot, just as likely to be targeted or shot at than any other wingman or npc.... in CMOD3 i feel like i have a giant AI-sticker called "KILL PLAYER FIRST" on my ship at all times.


-------- What can be done??: ------

I didn't just post all this complaints about cmod3 to be a whiner. I realize the original developer of cmod3 is MIA for some time, but the question is, what can I do about it? How difficult would it be for me edit some cmod3 shield/weapon stats? I would love to make some personal changes because cmod3 is a great concept but falls short for me in some areas, notable shield regen rates... Vanilla in contrast, i would be more than happy to use, if it weren't for the fact of cap ships dieing way to fast, oh, and flak soundeffect. They said they changed it in 2.7 i call folly, its still a loud continuous roar, like nails on a chalkboard but in space.

If modding cmod3 is out of the question, can I change vanilla shield stats for cap ships somehow? If i could just get vanilla with better shielded caps and a few nice sound effects from cmod or a replacement for the stock flak sound, id be a happy man.

Suggestions?

[paulwheeler]

Re: the save game issue

That doesn't sound like anything caused by the CMOD.

Personally I've not noticed any issues going from vanilla to CMOD even in-sector. I was merely saying that if you do get save game corruption issues moving to an empty sector usually solves it.

Really save game corruption is not the right thing to call it. The save is not corrupted, the game is just having trouble loading it due to certain files that it was accessing when you saved being altered so it can't continue.

As for lag over time. I find that this is often caused by flak effects - especially the cluster flak - even with CMOD installed. Its simply the length of the explosion sample and the fact that the cluster flak tries to play so many of them at the same time. It just builds up and builds up and kills your fps in the process. It can also be caused by the sheer build up of laser effects on the screen.

Once the battle is over I find fps revert to normal.


Re: CMOD balancing

Unfortunately the CMOD is no longer being developed. I have released a rebalance of the CMOD for my Ship Rebalance Mod, but it requires the SRM at the moment.

Remember that one of the major aims of the CMOD was to make battles last longer. In my CMOD rebalance I've taken this even further by reducing shield damage values an increasing shield recharge on the bigger shields.

Yes ramming ships is easier, but since the AI is incapable of doing this deliberately, perhaps you could pretend that it would be suicidal for you to do it too.

Editing CMOD is easy. If you want to reduce shield recharges, extract TShields from the CMOD using the Mod Manager and load it into the X3 Editor 2. Shield efficency and power drain both influence recharge times.

However, this will put your battles back to the vanilla - over in a second - style.


Re: the 2.7 flak changes. While Egosoft included a new sound effect, they didn't actually change TBullets to make the flak use it so it still uses the old sound. But don't worry I tested the new sound and its still terrible.

[Ragemaster9999]

Paul you may be onto something with the fps issue thats been plauging me. For me it seems that cmod3 causes more lag than vanilla, but cmod3 also has much prettier laser effects. my current setup for slaughtering boron sectors is a carrack /w mostly flak clusters and plasma burst generators.. All of which are aoe affect weapons. The carrack is supported by me in my centuar raider, which has 6 hept. then i have two caravel TM each with 4 novas with max equip to lend fighter support.

When i first entered the boron sector there was a number of stations but only traders no big military fleets.FPS 25-30. I set mars on my carrack and my personal m6 and told my carrack to go to town on the local boron trading station, while my 8 novas from the two TM went about mindlessly slaughtering transporters with Anarkis defense system CLEAR system command. I set every race enemy/negative for this.

Took about 30 minutes of shooting my m6 and carrack at the trading station until it blew up, and man it was like 9-8 fps by that time. Talk about memory leak! Leaving the sector fixes the lag. Not sure if the thousand of wares cluttering the system would have contributed to the lag... i mean there was transporter leftovers everywhere. While shooting the station i had to listen to sound and picture events such as "we are now launching our defensive units, it is with regret they have orders to kill" about every 10 seconds.

Furthermore, the fighters were laying waste to every transporter in the sector systematically so i had repeated and sometimes overlapping "please stop firing", " boron request peace, HELP US we offer no anger! " Boron not happy, I give up freight" ECT messages over and over and over.... yeah, it was basically a boron massacre of biblical proportions

Also, one more thing...

I think something with mars may have borked up. as i changed between cmod3 and vanilla sevreal times throughout my gametime, sometimes during a fight.

I notice that my mars on my centuar is actully shooting vanilla weapon effects while my forward guns that mars doesnt touch is shooting CMOD effects... hmm, this cant be good can it.



RE: shield regen : cool ill have to give this a try, never modded x3 or played with tfiles i assume theres a guide somewhere in the sticky? I downlaoded xeditor but its kinda confusing.

I feel that vanilla fighter shields are perfect, but capships not enough. Is there a way to influence a M1-m2-M6-M7 shield regen/overall shield amount without touching fighters? or is it a global modifier thats for all ships? Furthermore, can i use this editor to change the stock vanilla flak sound effect to something else? Even if its not cmod effect, I can find some random royalty free sound effect to use, it be better than vanilla flak. Or just mute it altoghether!

[paulwheeler]

There is no way that Mars can put you back to the vanilla effects. What you are probably seeing is Mars swapping out the weapons so you fire with something different.

Regarding the lag - have you tried getting the latest drivers for your sound card? X3 has always seemed to be a bit temperamental where sound card drivers are concerned...

There are a few tutorials around for basic modding. See the stickies at the top of this forum.

Get the Mod Manager first. Open up the CMOD cat/dat and drag TShields to your desktop. It should decompress it to a txt file. Then open this file up in the X3 Editor using the t file editor. Once you've finished either put it back into the CMOD cat/dat (make sure you recompress it) or pop it into the "Types" folder in the main X3TC directory.

The recharge rates can be independantly set for each shield type.

As for adding new sounds - this is a little more complicated...

[Ikari]

link dead?
404 not found

[Cith]

Standalone sound mod The link is dead it seems :/

[paulwheeler]

----COMING SOON----


THE COMBAT MOD v4


Some of you may be aware of my CMOD3:Rebalanced addon pack for the Ship Rebalance Mod.

Well, after a few requests and gaining permission from the XTM team to include their content that's already in the CMOD3, I will be releasing a full, standalone version which will include the CMOD3 plus all of the changes I have made in the CMOD3:Rebalanced.

It will, of course, be compatible with the latest patch of X3TC.

Until such time as Ulfus rejoins the community I will look after his mod and keep it updated and as compatible with all the other mods out there as possible.

I have been unable to contact Ulfus, but people who know him well say he would like to see someone else take up his mod and keep it updated rather than die.

It will remain Ulfus' mod. I'll just be caretaker till he returns. I have tried to keep all changes within the spirit of Ulfus' original vision.

So if anyone has any requests or suggestions, now is the time.

[Leke]

Turn the ion shard rails back to the way they were in vanilla.

All corvettes that use them have lost their teeth against anything bigger than M4.

[Happyblue]

I find that Plasma Burst Generators are a little overpowered with the cmod3:r. A couple Fujins can take out a m6 in a matter of seconds. I know thier drawback is the short range but thats negated by the fact it is equipable on ships that are faster than 90% of the ships in the game.

I disagree with the Ion Shard Railgun argument. They are just faster/weaker than HEPT. I see them as an anti-fighter weapon. They work better in turrets than flak cannons as they can track on fast enemies alot better.

[paulwheeler]

I've tried to give the ISR back its teeth already in the CMOD3:Rebalanced.

Its a medium weapon and should be able to do similar damage to the CIG. I've kept its CMOD effect and speed, but decreased fire rate and increased damage - especailly shield damage as it is ion based.


I'll look into the PBG. I haven't done much with it so far, so I could back off the damage a little. It is a light weapon afterall.

[mr.WHO]

You added EMReapeter as light Terran weapon, maybe you could add a proper Terran M7 weapon (something base on modifed Starburst shockwave cannon) to fill the last Terran gap.

Do you plan to ballance the missiles?
I find that Terran Spectre missile is somehow very easy to intercept (to be honest, I think that Spectre has bullet magnet inside them ), in addition the very powerfull warhead, make this missile much more deadly to owner that to target itself.

Spectre supose to be basic Terran missile, I I think that you should reduce it's warhead, but make it faster and much more agile. This way it would be more usefull, safe & reliable to owner.

EDIT:
I would also like to see Gauss cannon exetended range by 2 or 3 km. It supose to be artillery weapon. Right now it's almost equal range with Khaak heavy beams.

PBE post-hit effect (it looks like some flames on hull for a few seconds) tend to cause lag when more than a few ship shoot at each other.

[Requiemfang]

Might as well balance the damn shadow missile as well it's a swarm missile for god sake it does 100k+ damage per missile and the thing spawns like 8 missiles per missile shot. That's basically an PWN THEM ALL missile and makes all other missiles in the game that do large damage seem redundant and stupid

[Gravitycontrol]

Might as well balance the damn shadow missile as well it's a swarm missile for god sake it does 100k+ damage per missile and the thing spawns like 8 missiles per missile shot. That's basically an PWN THEM ALL missile and makes all other missiles in the game that do large damage seem redundant and stupid

i know what you mean xD you can clear out a sector with a couple of those ^^

[Sam L.R. Griffiths]

Might as well balance the damn shadow missile as well it's a swarm missile for god sake it does 100k+ damage per missile and the thing spawns like 8 missiles per missile shot. That's basically an PWN THEM ALL missile and makes all other missiles in the game that do large damage seem redundant and stupid

i know what you mean xD you can clear out a sector with a couple of those ^^

1 Shadow Missile = 8 Phantom Missiles, so if the shadow missile needs rebalancing so does the Phantom.