New interview

[Darth Sidian]

The act of trading IS flying around and using autopilot.

No. Otherwise you are saying there is no trading in MMOs like WoW, Gw2 etc. because the players are standing next to an auctioneer and do nothing else than the trading itself.
The act of trading is to find cheap stuff and sell it for profit.

So yes, it is an improvement to decrease wasted time and give the player the option to do whatever he wants to do - the only option that is gone is the browser game like gameplay "i click something and now i have to wait and will do other stuff that has nothing to do with the game at all".

If you do want exactly that and if you are not pleased by the possibilities you can do otherwise which include managing your empire, direct trading, escorting your freighters, docking/attaching at a capital cargo ship, looking for good trade offers and the other things that aren't linked to trading, then you should not buy the game or wait for mods.

But this small aspect is not the trading system, not at all.

Transportation is a part of 'trading' I am led to believe.

I have yet to see a trader who is transporting large amounts of goods by himself.
In fact, if a trader can afford large amounts of goods, he hires other people or even companies for the transport so he can go on trading.

I continue to repeat my point but it seems it is lost. You can no longer trade and haul goods yourself.

I continue to repeat my point but it seems it is lost. You can still trade and transport smaller goods yourself if you like to.

Bulk transport and trading are both professions and the player can take part in the activity themselves should they choose to.
Not only they can, but they have to, because Egosoft removed the automated trading system aka universe traders.

[Darth Sidian]

The skunk does not replace 150 or so different ships and their roles in the X Universe.

It actually does. With your fleet as an extension to your ship.
But that is kinda off topic, because this topic is about that interview, not about the one ship thingy.

How are we supposed to manage our huge trade empire by having to do every little trade manually.

Stations. You can give your ships to your stations so they will buy the stuff the stations need and sell the product.

In comparison to the prequels, you can't just buy ships and a pilot and say to him "go and make some money for me!".

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Buy capital ship.
Equip it as a freighter.
Hire a reliable crew.
Find a nice deal.
Tell the capital ship to do that deal.
Dock at that capital ship and observe how it loads the cargo, travels through space, and then unloads the cargo.

Its basically the same, but its sexy this time, because capital ships have crews, modules, the space has now different layout, side missions have new mechanics, jump drive fuel is not a "meh, got enough of that".

[Teleth]

The act of trading IS flying around and using autopilot.

No. Otherwise you are saying there is no trading in MMOs like WoW, Gw2 etc. because the players are standing next to an auctioneer and do nothing else than the trading itself.
The act of trading is to find cheap stuff and sell it for profit.

So yes, it is an improvement to decrease wasted time and give the player the option to do whatever he wants to do - the only option that is gone is the browser game like gameplay "i click something and now i have to wait and will do other stuff that has nothing to do with the game at all".

If you do want exactly that and if you are not pleased by the possibilities you can do otherwise which include managing your empire, direct trading, escorting your freighters, docking/attaching at a capital cargo ship, looking for good trade offers and the other things that aren't linked to trading, then you should not buy the game or wait for mods.

But this small aspect is not the trading system, not at all.

Transportation is a part of 'trading' I am led to believe.

I have yet to see a trader who is transporting large amounts of goods by himself.
In fact, if a trader can afford large amounts of goods, he hires other people or even companies for the transport so he can go on trading.

I continue to repeat my point but it seems it is lost. You can no longer trade and haul goods yourself.

I continue to repeat my point but it seems it is lost. You can still trade and transport smaller goods yourself if you like to.

Bulk transport and trading are both professions and the player can take part in the activity themselves should they choose to.
Not only they can, but they have to, because Egosoft removed the automated trading system aka universe traders.

Seems you are really particular about word definitions, so here you go:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trade

"the activity or process of buying, selling, or exchanging goods or services"

You can't buy and sell for profit in X3 if you don't move the goods, or wait for them to change in value. For that you need storage if you want to move than a few hundred items.

WOW and GW2 auction houses encompass an entire nation, they do away with the whole aspect of moving goods. They make no effort to be realistic what so ever. These trade systems are nothing like in X3 and EVE which have some small grounding in reality.

When you sell goods in X3 you haul them if you want to make profit generally, same goes for other complicated trading system such as EVE, Port Royale etc.. any trading game worth some salt.

You buy cells from a power plant, and sell it to a factory. They don't teleport; transport can very much be a part of trade. If you want to reduce my argument to transportation, that's fine. Meaning doesn't change.

I'm also not referring to small goods. I never did.

The point bought up was not about what you can do now, but what you can no longer do in favor of streamlining and making the game faster. You are welcome to sing praise about the new features, but it is not relevant to the issue that was bought up.

[Santi]

How are we supposed to manage our huge trade empire by having to do every little trade manually. Thats a 8 hour a day job at work and then I come home to do a 8 hour a day job in XR. I'd have no time to do anything else.

Aquaphina - you know what I think that means? "the end of water as we know it"

In Rebirth you have your fleet, those are ships directly under your command, those ships add functionalities to the player ship, if you have mining ships assigned to your fleet, then you can go out there and mine, same for trade ships or military ships. The beauty of this fleet structure is that you can make it as small or big as you feel comfortable with. Your huge trade empire are mostly stations and associated ships, there are not automated trading ships anymore. You hire people, set the parameters and they do most of the work.

[Alci]

How are we supposed to manage our huge trade empire by having to do every little trade manually

how you did it in X2 without universal trader? It was impossible I guess

Ofc at empire level it has automation. But your own trading fleet is waiting for your commands. Even better. They do not wait. In X2/X3 you needed to wait until it arrives somewhere, then manually load, then send it elsewhere, wait, unload it manually. Now it will perform pretty well on its own once you confirm trade order. And you have automation up to best buy/sell level from old games.

And it moves to more sophisticated logistics planning. Which route should be taken by what ship to spend as little time as possible.

And for empire.. there will be managers who will drive ships for you. For the station f.e. And most likely it will be possible to establish stable trading routes (if not in 1.0, then soon) as it is very simple do get into trading computer.

[Darth Sidian]

Seems you are really particular about word definitions, so here you go:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trade

"the activity or process of buying, selling, or exchanging goods or services"

And that is exactly what you will do in X:R if you wanna be a trader.

Also, Traders do not buy a cargo ship and navigate it to shanghai personally. They either hire it, or they pay an agent for the entire transporting.
Therefore the trading system in X:R has "a realistic touch".

The point bought up was not about what you can do now, but what you can no longer do in favor of streamlining and making the game faster.

As i said, what you can no longer do is a very minor aspect of the trading, but you are acting like trading is no longer possible ("That is an entire profession lost for the player in X:Rebirth").

If you want to trade with large amount of goods yourself, discuss it within the one ship thingy discussion (because it is tied to that and would be off topic here), or play games "worth some salt".

[Teleth]

Seems you are really particular about word definitions, so here you go:
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/trade

"the activity or process of buying, selling, or exchanging goods or services"

And that is exactly what you will do in X:R if you wanna be a trader.

Also, Traders do not buy a cargo ship and navigate it to shanghai personally. They either hire it, or they pay an agent for the entire transporting.
Therefore the trading system in X:R has "a realistic touch".

The point bought up was not about what you can do now, but what you can no longer do in favor of streamlining and making the game faster.

As i said, what you can no longer do is a very minor aspect of the trading, but you are acting like trading is no longer possible ("That is an entire profession lost for the player in X:Rebirth").

If you want to trade with large amount of goods yourself, discuss it within the one ship thingy discussion (because it is tied to that and would be off topic here), or play games "worth some salt".

I think you kinda missed the point of the discussion, but alright. Let's just say you're right.

[ahddib]

Well it definitely changes the trading play-style to something faster, and he is right in that regard, now your personal trading is done in two button presses and involves no effort.

Is the number of button presses really how you gauge the depth of an economic gameplay model? I wouldn't qualify X3's trading as "better" because its trade commands required more rote muscle memorization in order to be used efficiently. Issuing a trade command in X3 takes more effort than issuing one in XR in the same way tightening a screw with your bare hands takes more effort than tightening one with a screwdriver.

Actual logistics: pricing, volumes, rates of production, rates of transportation; those are the things that should be establishing the pace and depth of trading within the game. From what we've been shown so far, all of those things are still very present in Rebirth.

Flying your own cargo places does have its merit. Maybe he preferred to read the paper on his morning e-cell run, I don't know, but I am certain some enjoyed it.

Again, I'm not denying the benefits of flying different ships personally. But if he enjoys reading the paper so much in that context, he can give one of his ships a trade order and start reading his paper while the ship executes his order. Pacing is unchanged.

He keeps bringing up being "forced into dogfighting" as though the game immediately throws enemies at the player ship every time you issue a trade run. Enlighten me if I'm missing something, but I haven't seen any preview footage demonstrating that this is the case.

While I can say I respect Egosoft's choices and limitations in X:Rebirth you will be hard pressed to find agreement in the one ship mechanic because it damages a critical aspect of why X3 was so fun for me in the first place.

The exact value of a given feature in X3 is largely subjective. How much each feature dictates your opinion of the game is a personal decision. If the removal of a single feature is enough to dissuade you from Rebirth as a whole, that's your prerogative.

...Not referring to you, specifically, of course.

Couldn't have said so better myself.

You are the best poster I've seen on here A5PECT. Thank you for your non flaming, non trolling, logically sound, and insightful posts.

[Alci]

I think you kinda missed the point of the discussion, but alright. Let's just say you're right.

no, he doesn't. Building, trading and hauling are separate things. If I create some goods (in game to be easier) and I manage to get good price (auction, forum, contacts) because my deal is better (I will give bonus, I get it faster then others, I have it closer to customer needs) it's not a trade just because I don't deliver it personally (I have low STR to do that f.e)? Same principle in X:R. Hauling may or may not be a part of trade itself.

In RL it's even more biased.

[Teleth]

Hauling may or may not be a part of trade itself.

In RL it's even more biased.

Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me about trade?

I said that trade can include hauling. Not that it is a requirement.

[Shootist]

How are we supposed to manage our huge trade empire by having to do every little trade manually.

Time will tell, I promise.