The big GamesCom interview with Bernd - Comments

[Alan Phipps]

You said "Personal opinion with a bit of speculation: I think we could have both in the same game, unless Egosoft's new engine is actually inferior to the old one in some things."

I think that you might have missed my point. You cannot have the traditional X3 gameplay in a new game called X-Rebirth or it would not be a totally new game. I am saying that I, for one, would be happy to buy separately a new improved X3 and the completely different Rebirth. I just don't think that X3 improved is an option now. If you consider that very last bit in italics is speculation then fine, but the rest is my opinion.

[Rabiator der II.]

With "both in the same game" I meant giving the player all options he has in X-Rebirth and those he had in X3. With the possible exception of flying small ships due to plot requirements. Or maybe even with that and a warning to the player not to dump the Skunk completely, because it is still needed for the plot.

I think if the engine and the modding options are up to it, the new game called X-Rebirth will eventually be remade by someone to be more like X3. That is, of course, speculation .

[bluenog143]

Still there is something I don't get from the interview. On one of the answers Bernd gave, he mentioned that the player would get discounts for flying around/over a station (and I think he also mentioned getting discounts by finding things close to the station).

How is that supposed to lower the price of the goods? That's like saying that by driving around a McDonalds' parking lot they're going to give me a discount. I know it's a game and not an exact simulator but I just hope it's not what I'm thinking.

[Alan Phipps]

I wonder if he means that as you become well-known by a station you can start to earn discounts (like a store frequent customer discount card)? Perhaps the advantages start when you first scan a station and agree to a contract or mission of theirs.

[mrscribbler]

I wonder if he means that as you become well-known by a station you can start to earn discounts (like a store frequent customer discount card)? Perhaps the advantages start when you first scan a station and agree to a contract or mission of theirs.

I am guessing it would mean that as you know more about the station and stock levels (as well as levels of input resources and total costs of production) you can haggle a better deal.

Like if you know that the station has warehouses of stuff they are trying to tell you is extremely rare.

[Killjaeden]

Limiting ship changes to M6 [..] I see three plausible reasons:

4.) They wanted more immersion, thus creating walkable interior with crew that you can talk to, copilot etc and realized it wasn't possible to do this for 100 ships?

So you want Modern Warfare 27 or maybe Call of Duty 20? Hey I have a great idea X - Modern Warfare Birth. Or maybe Battle Field 2900 X.

What has that to do with his point? He is not one of those call of duty fanboys i guess (neither am i), but apparently their concept works because it sells. And because they want to make money they are pumping out those games to milk the cashcow as long as it's possible.

Egosoft can't afford to "hold back" something big on purpose. They have too limited ressources for that. They have 2 choices - bring something they couldn't do in time later as DLC or leave it be. And how can you blame them for mentioning Addon or DLC? They are making a new game with new engine, only a fool would make a totally new game right after that. Unless your gamecontent only lasts for 6 ingamehours

[DarkTemplar]

4.) They wanted more immersion, thus creating walkable interior with crew that you can talk to, copilot etc and realized it wasn't possible to do this for 100 ships?

So for having something most people will tire of in no time and completly ignore they severely limit the ability of people to make choices? Sounds like a smart move.

What has that to do with his point? He is not one of those call of duty fanboys i guess (neither am i), but apparently their concept works because it sells. And because they want to make money they are pumping out those games to milk the cashcow as long as it's possible.

Egosoft can't afford to "hold back" something big on purpose. They have too limited ressources for that. They have 2 choices - bring something they couldn't do in time later as DLC or leave it be. And how can you blame them for mentioning Addon or DLC? They are making a new game with new engine, only a fool would make a totally new game right after that. Unless your gamecontent only lasts for 6 ingamehours

Yes it works but not for the majority. Most games trying this approach fail spectacularly it's only a small number that succeds and most of those are etablished brands to begin with that have a big fanbase willing to put up with certain things same goes for the developers.

What Egosoft and Deepsilver are now trying to do is to streamline the game and cater more to a casual audience. A casual audience normally isn't interested in this kind of games and is going for completly different stuff.
Even games that actually fit the taste of said audience often end up failing simply because they lose against the big etablished names.

Yet they're already talking about DLC long before the game is finished and it is NOT some kind of addon that expands upon the actual game or some new shiny ships they're talking about.
Instead they're talking about the Drone Factory, something that so far was always part of the game and that will be essential seeing as how drones will get so much focus in Rebirth.
It's not something they "had no time to finish" or "an addition" it's a part of the game that is going to be witheld and most likely they're going to charge us extra for it.

[Rabiator der II.]

Limiting ship changes to M6 [..] I see three plausible reasons:

4.) They wanted more immersion, thus creating walkable interior with crew that you can talk to, copilot etc and realized it wasn't possible to do this for 100 ships?

Well that was my scenario 1) too: lack of resources. Plausible enough.

Egosoft can't afford to "hold back" something big on purpose. They have too limited ressources for that. They have 2 choices - bring something they couldn't do in time later as DLC or leave it be. And how can you blame them for mentioning Addon or DLC? They are making a new game with new engine, only a fool would make a totally new game right after that. Unless your gamecontent only lasts for 6 ingamehours

I guess it is possible that they already have a handful of extra player ships to choose from, but Deep Silver told them to make it into separate DLC for more money. I'd not be very enthusiastic about that, but moves like that happen in the games industry.

[mrscribbler]

Yes it works but not for the majority. Most games trying this approach fail spectacularly it's only a small number that succeds and most of those are etablished brands to begin with that have a big fanbase willing to put up with certain things same goes for the developers.

What Egosoft and Deepsilver are now trying to do is to streamline the game and cater more to a casual audience. A casual audience normally isn't interested in this kind of games and is going for completly different stuff.
Even games that actually fit the taste of said audience often end up failing simply because they lose against the big etablished names.

Yet they're already talking about DLC long before the game is finished and it is NOT some kind of addon that expands upon the actual game or some new shiny ships they're talking about.
Instead they're talking about the Drone Factory, something that so far was always part of the game and that will be essential seeing as how drones will get so much focus in Rebirth.
It's not something they "had no time to finish" or "an addition" it's a part of the game that is going to be witheld and most likely they're going to charge us extra for it.

I am so glad we have you here. If it wasn't for your ability to foretell the future off of minimal information we would no doubt make the mistake of staying interested in this game. I am so glad that you have cleared things up for us, for now that I am no longer distracted by an interest in a game that is neither out nor has had a chance to be properly reviewed I can properly focus in my spare time on the development of a triple-A pill that will cure AIDS, alzheimers and assholishness all in one go.

It might even cure cancer. I'll be sure to thank you by forum handle in my speech when I pick up my Nobel Prize.

[Killjaeden]

I guess it is possible that they already have a handful of extra player ships to choose from

You heard that you can upgrade the ship with all sorts of stuff? Such stuff takes considerable time to develop. They have to spent alot of time making all the features of that ship work, tweak it, make sure everything has it's use etc. A handfull of optional ships... no i don't think so. If you are trying to get a game releaseworthy there is no time for optional content. Unless you have a huge budget and a big team.

What Egosoft and Deepsilver are now trying to do is to streamline the game and cater more to a casual audience. A casual audience normally isn't interested in this kind of games and is going for completly different stuff.

That is your interpretation That was never said. I remember how bernd said something about people acting like headless chicken when the word "streamline" is mentioned because all they think of is "dumb down". You are one of them.

[Sibilantae]

So for having something most people will tire of in no time and completly ignore they severely limit the ability of people to make choices? Sounds like a smart move.

I don't want to get involved in the rest of the conversation (I'm still trying to make up my mind =P ) but I beg to differ on this point. I know you didn't fully generalize, but speaking for myself, in a form of pseudo-anecdotal evidence, I can say that having that walking-around-in-interior capability sounds *good* to me. There's been a lot of slyly directed hate at the ME series on this forum, but I loved that about those games.

Not that I want XR to be an ME clone, mind you - I'm just saying I for one love the idea of walking around on a ship (whether it's free or like in SH4) and would probably not get tired of it. I'm not sure that most]/i] would disagree with me, especially those wanting ship-based immersion (of which there are surely more than a few).

[DarkTemplar]

I am so glad we have you here. If it wasn't for your ability to foretell the future off of minimal information we would no doubt make the mistake of staying interested in this game. I am so glad that you have cleared things up for us, for now that I am no longer distracted by an interest in a game that is neither out nor has had a chance to be properly reviewed I can properly focus in my spare time on the development of a triple-A pill that will cure AIDS, alzheimers and assholishness all in one go.

It might even cure cancer. I'll be sure to thank you by forum handle in my speech when I pick up my Nobel Prize.

Oh please. I love how you guys completly ignore the things we were told by Bernd in the interview as if they don't exist. It is not as if there's nothing to base the critique brought up so far on. In fact there's quite a lot.

He himself brought up the drone factory, so how exactly am I "foretelling the future" when he himself said what they plan to do?

[Santi]

Bernd said regarding Drones


Question:
How does it work with those drones? Will they be produced on the ship?

Bernd:
Produced? No. You'll have to buy them. There is the possibility to construct them, but not on your ship.


Then talking about reusable Resources :

Question:
Will there be reusable Resources??

Bernd:
Reusable Resources. It is on our Wish-list. But I am not certain about it.
Yes, for realistic reasons Recycling is absolutely reasonable. I mean, you can’t tell me that the make this insane work for mining in Space and at the same time let an old Space station, which consists of metal, rot away.
For the sake of realism I would like to have this feature. Let's put it this way: the chances are good.

Interjection:
That you can disassemble Wrecks after a slaughter.

Bernd:
Yes. If you visualize that nicely. That is the Goal. The Point, you know, is to implement recycling without showing it would be easy. Thus it easy to integrate within the economy, so that produces resources again. But if we do this, than we want to display it nicely. This means, that you can see how those things are dismantled.
There are special drones, which weld these ones apart and carrying it away.

Question:
Will there be a Factory for such drones?

Bernd:
Perhaps. Especially such things are under circumstances Stuff for the first DLC. That is exactly such a thing. You don’t know it. Such features are predestined to possibly decide: they are in the first DLC. This are things which are decided by the Publisher. We can’t tell.


So Bernd was speaking about the recycling drones, that are not even implemented in game.

As a side note Deepsilver has been the publisher since X2, and the series didn't fare too bad regarding DLC and Addons.

[Rabiator der II.]

Bernd said...

Interjection:
That you can disassemble Wrecks after a slaughter.

Bernd:
Yes. If you visualize that nicely. That is the Goal. The Point, you know, is to implement recycling without showing it would be easy. Thus it easy to integrate within the economy, so that produces resources again. But if we do this, than we want to display it nicely. This means, that you can see how those things are dismantled.
There are special drones, which weld these ones apart and carrying it away.

Question:
Will there be a Factory for such drones?

Bernd:
Perhaps. Especially such things are under circumstances Stuff for the first DLC. That is exactly such a thing. You don’t know it. Such features are predestined to possibly decide: they are in the first DLC. This are things which are decided by the Publisher. We can’t tell.

That set of quotes shows two important points:

• 1) Nice graphics are considered more important than rounding off the game economy.
  2) The publisher decides if X:Rebirth is released in one piece or split up to create more revenue.

Point 2) in particular makes me want to wait and see how the game turns out before I buy it. Because somehow I think Egosoft as developers would not want to release something incomplete on purpose, but I have no faith at all in the publisher for whom it is only one of many cash cows.

[BigBANGtheory]

In all fairness though we should give the publisher some credit for supporting and arguably financing a game genre that we all enjoy.

If faced with a choice I'd rather be overcharged for quality, than simply not having the game. The SIM community for example has pretty much accepted that you can't have a top quality title for $50 that lasts for years and years.

[Santi]

1) Nice graphics are considered more important than rounding off the game economy.
2) The publisher decides if X:Rebirth is released in one piece or split up to create more revenue.

1) You are wrong, he explicitly says as well in those points

Thus it easy to integrate within the economy

Read what he says, not what you want to read please.

2) You are wrong again, he explicitly says

Stuff for the first DLC.

Because they are extra features (recycling drones) that are not implemented on the game. Nowhere he says that they are considering splitting the game for extra revenue.

Read what he says in the context of what he says, not the context you want it to be, please.

[Ketraar]

Read what he says in the context of what he says, not the context you want it to be, please.

Now you pushing it, next thing we know, you demanding people to make sense and base their posts on facts and other similar odd things.

MFG

Ketraar

[VincentTH]

Read what he says in the context of what he says, not the context you want it to be, please.

Now you pushing it, next thing we know, you demanding people to make sense and base their posts on facts and other similar odd things.

MFG

Ketraar

Sorry, I failed 2nd grade Reading Comprehension

Seriously, TLDR; I only skim through the interview, looking for the release date I really appreciate people like santi who put it nicely and briefly for busy people like me (who only reads the forum during company lunch time )

[Aragosnat]

Travelling and exploring are going to be much better that in other X games. .....
It is something that the X community has been longing and asking for a long time, the scrap of the Sector system and the implementation of truly open space for the game.

One can hope. They only bad thing we are losing is the guess work on where to place those LTs (if they still exist) for the most part...

Still there is something I don't get from the interview. On one of the answers Bernd gave, he mentioned that the player would get discounts for flying around/over a station (and I think he also mentioned getting discounts by finding things close to the station).

How is that supposed to lower the price of the goods? That's like saying that by driving around a McDonalds' parking lot they're going to give me a discount. I know it's a game and not an exact simulator but I just hope it's not what I'm thinking.

I wonder if he means that as you become well-known by a station you can start to earn discounts (like a store frequent customer discount card)? Perhaps the advantages start when you first scan a station and agree to a contract or mission of theirs.

I am guessing it would mean that as you know more about the station and stock levels (as well as levels of input resources and total costs of production) you can haggle a better deal.

Like if you know that the station has warehouses of stuff they are trying to tell you is extremely rare.

@bluenog143: It is called "Blackmailing" for a reason to you're really not scanning but hacking their systems and changing how they see your account. Remember all those follow x and they then hack the bases systems.

@mrscribbler: Yeah. I hope the system works like that not like what I posted above. But, sadly thinking how dark the universe might have become or not. Why would anyone like their stations being scanned prior to being asked to do so? Since pirates have not likely gone the way of the dodo.

I do like the part where if we work for the station a lot we might get a discount. But, the whole scanning without being asked screams ILLEGAL activite detected turrets will not commence firing upon the offender. Yeah overly paranoid reaction. Where it could be true and they are out to get you.

[Alan Phipps]

I am wondering whether Bernd rather meant scanning a composite site's individual sales modules for missions, jobs or contracts rather than scanning for status/contents as we currently know it in X3 now. (Eg The scan finds 'We are 10% cheaper than any other module may quote, guaranteed' and/or 'We really need 100 drums of wiffle-oil and can offer a premium' and/or 'We need this load of mega-cakes delvered to ... for a fee' and/or 'In 10 timebits from now we will be offering a bargain sale for 100 timebits only', etc)

Then maybe you earn frequent trade discounts as well - ie a race/factional/site trade rating.