[POLL] Would you use Steam for Rebirth?

[Snickly]

Thanks I´ll just keep my fingers crossed.
Have a great Xmas

[bizbag]

I would err towards not, since most Steam games don't allow it, but given that AP has it available, I don't see why not.

[elexis]

Actually a lot of steam games don't require steam to run, particularly old games and indie games.

[bizbag]

Actually a lot of steam games don't require steam to run, particularly old games and indie games.

Fair enough, but Rebirth won't really fit either category. Still, like I said, I don't see why not.

[amtie]

Thanks Amtie but I just need a yes or no on this one

That's the problem Snickly. You probably won't get either anytime soon. You'll even probably have to end up looking for yourself once you've bought the game or posting a new thread after release if you haven't pre-ordered it.

[Katorone]

As I understood it, you will only have to activate the game once through steam and will be able to play it when offline.

[A5PECT]

As I understood it, you will only have to activate the game once through steam and will be able to play it when offline.

True. But the question was whether or not the game is playable without Steam.

Steam in offline mode is still Steam.

<.. and last 11 posts merged with Steam thread. Alan Phipps>

[Katorone]

As I understood it, you will only have to activate the game once through steam and will be able to play it when offline.

True. But the question was whether or not the game is playable without Steam.

Steam in offline mode is still Steam.

<.. and last 11 posts merged with Steam thread. Alan Phipps>

Point taken.

[aliengmr]

There are basically 2 types of games available on Steam. There are "Steamworks" games and games just sold through Steam.

Games that are just sold on Steam may not require Steam to run if you purchase them elsewhere. In some cases you can activate and download a game you purchased digitally from places like Amazon. There are various levels of integration but AFAIK, the games can be installed without Steam, depending on where you purchase the game.

Steamworks games actually have Steam integrated and no matter where you buy it you will always have to DL it from Steam. Even if you got a disk.

I could be wrong, but I think X3AP is NOT a full on Steamworks title, and XR will be. If that is the case its unlikely there will be a non-steam.exe.

Like I said, I could be wrong.

[CBJ]

You're wrong on several counts I'm afraid. See this FAQ entry, and indeed the rest of our Steam FAQ, for correct information.

[Deleted User]

You're wrong on several counts I'm afraid. See this FAQ entry, and indeed the rest of our Steam FAQ, for correct information.

Ahh, the facts of a steam only requirement.

Perhaps you CBJ, could confirm that you absolutely do not guarantee that the product users have paid for for will be permanently available if your chosen third party distributor goes under.

I stress confirm, as you seem to be extremely loose by your definitions, which include no guarantees, and also extend to what you consider unlikey scenarios and 'every effort'

Guarantee it, or stop wasting peoples time.

[Alan Phipps]

Even if he felt the urge to do so, any guarantee given by an employee today (no matter how respected) is hardly binding on whatever Egosoft as a business concern may have developed into in an unspecified number of years time. Even then the assurances would only apply should a hypothetical situation have arisen that they have assessed as being most unlikely to happen in their own forward commercial and business plans.

CBJ is not at all wasting people's time here in expressing a strong belief based on knowledge and experience that Egosoft would be professional and do the right thing for its customers should the need and situation arise. There is nothing more that anyone could reasonably expect of him.

[BAD_POOL_HEADER]

Guarantee it, or stop wasting peoples time.

When it was stated that in the unlikely event of Steam ceasing to exist Egosoft would make every effort to release a Steam-free patch the immediate cry was "But what if Steam AND Egosoft go under?" so I strongly suspect that even were CBJ to guarantee what you're asking for you'd just move the goalposts and come up with some other justification for complaint rather than be happy with his assurances.

I think what you seem to forget is that even if Egosoft were to backpedal and release a disk only version that is still a technology time-limited format. In 20 years from now DVD may be an obsolete format and the hardware required to play a DVD no longer be manufactured anymore. How do you plan to play your DVD based game then I wonder?

Silly idea you think? Well if you could forward me to a retailer that can sell me a 5.25 inch Windows 7 compatible floppy disk drive so I can play all my old 5.25 inch games maybe you'd be right.

[Deleted User]

Even if he felt the urge to do so, any guarantee given by an employee today (no matter how respected) is hardly binding on whatever Egosoft as a business concern may have developed into in an unspecified number of years time. Even then the assurances would only apply should a hypothetical situation have arisen that they have assessed as being most unlikely to happen in their own forward commercial and business plans.

CBJ is not at all wasting people's time here in expressing a strong belief based on knowledge and experience that Egosoft would be professional and do the right thing for its customers should the need and situation arise. There is nothing more that anyone could reasonably expect of him.

If that sentiment is not guaranteed and does not exist in the TOS, you can politely GTFO. <That cannot be said politely, but I will let it pass this time. Alan Phipps.>

[Deleted User]

I think what you seem to forget is that even if Egosoft were to backpedal and release a disk only version that is still a technology time-limited format. In 20 years from now DVD may be an obsolete format and the hardware required to play a DVD no longer be manufactured anymore. How do you plan to play your DVD based game then I wonder?

20 years LOL. I suggest you consider the original posters question.

[eladan]

Well if you could forward me to a retailer that can sell me a 5.25 inch Windows 7 compatible floppy disk drive so I can play all my old 5.25 inch games maybe you'd be right.

I actually have some digital images of old floppies, and there is a floppy drive emulator which will let me load them up. Fortunately, most of those old games can simply be copied from an old machine to a new one and they'll just work (with DOSBox) so it's not really an issue anyway.

CD intro roughly coincides with win95, both of which throw some spanners at this approach (uncopyable CDs, and registry crap) which means that when CDs become obsolete, I'll be in real danger (for the first time) of genuinely losing some of my games. And no, getting them from a digital retailer is not necessarily an option - some of them are obscure and are currently (probably permanently) unavailable.

This is why DRM is bad.

[RoverTX]

Steam is too big to fail now. What I mean is even if Valve goes under, steam as a platform will stick around because of its inherit worth to other companies. It might end up merged with something else, but I really don't see it going away. So I highly doubt you could end up loosing the games you bought on steam, at least in the next 20 years. If it where to die at this point it would die as slowly as AOL, and seeing as those SOBs are still around.....

[BAD_POOL_HEADER]

Perhaps you CBJ, could confirm that you absolutely do not guarantee that the product users have paid for for will be permanently available if your chosen third party distributor goes under.

20 years LOL. I suggest you consider the original posters question.

You're the one that seems to have an issue with the assurance that CBJ has given over some hypothetical future time period in which you're no longer able to play your game.

So again, how are you any more guaranteed to be able to play your DVD only game in some equally hypothetical future time period when DVDs have gone the way of the floppy disk?

[eladan]

So again, how are you any more guaranteed to be able to play your DVD only game in some equally hypothetical future time period when DVDs have gone the way of the floppy disk?

This argument comes up a lot in this debate. The answer I give is that I am in control of a DVD, and I'm even in control of the OS I use. Take care of the DVD, and it could last indefinitely. I can keep using an outdated OS forever if I want. It's all my choice and how I manage things. I.e. you are entirely dependent on things you control, as to whether you keep playing or not. (Yes, even DVD breakages or whatnot are essentially under your control.)

Compare to steam or other online activation type stuff - you have no control over whether those services continue or not. You can't predict when they will disappear, and you have no say whatsoever in the decision. You are entirely dependent upon someone else, in order to be able to keep playing your game.

There have already been incidents where a service has been terminated, stopping people from using what they paid for. Mostly music and movie services so far, although multiplayer servers have also been terminated for some games. Not being able to play a game simply because someone made a decision that it wasn't economical to continue a service will suck bigtime, and I want no part of encouraging business models which would allow this.

[Deleted User]

You're the one that seems to have an issue with the assurance that CBJ has given over some hypothetical future time period in which you're no longer able to play your game.

I have an issue precisely because CBJ has given NO CONCRETE assurance. This has been done for a reason: YOU GET NO CONCRETE ASSURANCE. But then, it will not matter to me, as I simply will not be buying into Egos franchise any longer. I can however be vocal and warn people like you of the dangers of Egos choice to go steam only. You may not worry about steam folding but it is a very real possibility and you would be wise to remember, those that say it is unlikely HAVE VESTED INTERESTS, I also advise you to be aware that steam does drop support for what it considers older OS.

So again, how are you any more guaranteed to be able to play your DVD only game in some equally hypothetical future time period when DVDs have gone the way of the floppy disk?

Quite simply because I keep DVDs and I keep all OS that I buy. I still have 95, 98, XP, Vista and W7. I can fire them up anytime I want and use them to play any game I own. In addition to that, as has already been mentioned, as the owner, I can transfer my property to alternative media.

Ego has chosen to go with steam and that means you can forget about the traditional method of paying hard cash for something you get to own and use when you see fit, without restriction.

I realise that the principle of ownership may be an alien concept to you, but it is worth considering, especially when companies are only too eager to see you dispense with such 'outdated' concepts.