The jasmine revolution spreads?

[philip_hughes]

@Usenko:


Libya is also a fairly simple problem: the military is slaughtering protesting civilians. That's the sort of problem we're good at solving.

I agree. The risk here is that if the yanks lose the peace like they did in Iraq (remember there was cheering in the streets when they first came) then the damage to their international reputation would be immense. If any military operation were to be attempted there would need to be immediate consultation on the ground with citizens and immediate restoration of order with a temporary police force.

[Usenko]

No, he's saying nothing of the sort.

No, the USA doesn't intentionally target civillians. However, any time troops are deployed, civillians are always accidentally killed.

Modern militaries, including the US, do their best to limit civillian casualties. But it's a dangerous game, and sometimes people get hurt.

As an aside, the reputation of American soldiers among Australian soldiers[1] is fantastic in terms of bravery and unwillingness to leave their wounded behind. When injured, Australian troops hope there are Americans in the area to back them up.

The American soldiers also have fantastic tools at their disposal. When they are in a tight spot, Australian troops hope there are American air support and artillery nearby.

However, their reputation is very poor when it comes to picking their targets. If they call for American close air support, Australian troops hope to be a very long way away!

[1] I have friends who recently came back from Afghanistan. They tell these stories.

[Tracker001]

Forward Observer trainning must have gone down hill sence I was in .
Or just relying to much on the gps and not dbl checking.

This is not to say friendly fire does't happen . I know it does. But your makeing sound like its the norm . I hope it's not !




AS for the other . Looks like a statment with a full stop and then a question set forth from the preivious statment ,wanting a response to the statment . So my accusation .

But maybe RegisterMe is speaking out of emotion . In which case this has moved from the science of debate .

I'll still say let the world call on some other country .

Besides we need to put our money into saveing the tit-mouse from the evils of farming .Shut down oil drilling and coal minning . Doing these things is more important than the rest of the worlds problems . Isn't that what the rest of the world (and the left) is saying about Evil energy sucking America ?

So logic dictaits we (U.S) should leave the rest of the world to it's own devices you don't want us around.

S/A remarks closed .

Not realy all that serious about the above . Just following the statements and looking for a solution .

[BeidAmmikon]

I'll still say let the world call on some other country .

The world changes, just ask Byzantium. With interventionism comes the leverage that a country gets when shaping the world in its own image, for eternity if possible. That's why the UN was founded, so wherefrom came the idea of this and that country that deserve and must step in, to regulate anything, elsewhere? It must be their chutzpah and leverage - that usually declines with time, since nothing lasts forever. So, in respect to...

[...] saying that the U.S. intently targets civilians .
Statement like that is why the U.S. should just leave the rest of the world to itself .

... I say that long good-byes make people sick.

[Tracker001]

Good example but Byzantine studies has ever been a locus of contestation, of defamers and champions.

[Aro]

I never thought I would see stuff like this in my lifetime.

Yeah. Also the mix of everything else going on too.


A timeline of all events in the last say 100 years would create an interesting perspective. Unfeasible (to create and read, let alone interpret) as it would be.

[RegisterMe]

That's what Paradox games are for .

[Tracker001]

That's what Paradox games are for .

>> I think

[Aye Capn]

Sword of the Stars ... intriguing ...

[Rive]

...
Statement like that is why the U.S. should just leave the rest of the world to itself .

Besides Europe has been in Africa alot longer then the U.S.
...

- I don't think that this situation is for the USA. It's for the West. Or for the World. (Actually the USA military is really stretched because of the operations in Iraq and Afghanistan - it'll be years till they will be able to dispatch large ground forces again. Without ground forces nobody can do nothing in this situation. )

- Other point of the story is the will of the locals. What level of ... help ... will they request/accept, especially now, as an alternative government is organized there?

- Apart from all that II think that the West should be able to offer more than just words.

- It's a kind of terrible that every such situation ends in 'what should the USA do?' instead of 'what should the UN do'? And this time again I mean effective and fast, maybe: military response on the necessary scale.

[Aye Capn]

We (the U.S.) could do a no-fly zone pretty easily. "The West" (or even the African Union or U.N.) could pony up the troops if they cared to.

[philip_hughes]

Don't think its neccesary. Pretty much any place outside a 50km radius of Tripoli is the rebellions. The yanks, poms and others are being urged to recognise the new government and supply aid and arms. The military is considering a direct assault on Tripoli. Its over Gadaffi.

Trouble is I think its too late for him to back down now. If he surrenders, he will be torn apart. I reckon the inner circle only have months to live. Anyone left with him is equally guilty. I reckon the he should have negotiated at the start. Ironically, he has ruled with fear so long maybe it is a kind of justice that he will spend these next few months in fear, waiting for his end to come, not that this scenario brings me any pleasure.

[Usenko]

I think he wants to go down in a last "heroic" shootout. The tragedy is that whilst his "Suicide by cop" gives him the end he wants, it will inevitably kill a lot of innocents as well.

And the worst thing about it is this: Even with the entire resources of the UN, US, UK and every other sane country at my fingertips, I don't think there's anything I could do to prevent it.

[philip_hughes]

Is sleeping gas banned by the Geneva convention? Rock aby Gadaffi in your fortress....

[Bishop149]

Is sleeping gas banned by the Geneva convention? Rock aby Gadaffi in your fortress....

It doesn't really exist. . . myth from the movies.

The problem of course is dosing, you want it to incapacitate extremely quickly so that rules out careful low or escalating dosage.
So you need to deliver the right dose to every individual in the building (different weights, sexes and ages), oh and you have to take into account the air flow fluid dynamics of the whole building.

In short its impossible, unless you had a magic agent that had its unconsciousness effect at a dosage orders of magnitude below its lethal dose. Then you could just flood it in as it would be hard to overdose anyone. Such an agent does not exist.

Those that have been tried haven't been entirely successful and are classed a chemical weapons so I'd imagine would be heavily regulated or banned by the CWC.

[philip_hughes]

Yeah. remember the moscow thing.

Strange that I don't want this guy to die but am perfectly happy with subjecting him to the poverty and torment he has forced his subjects into.

[Tycow]

Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told the BBC he is loved by all his people and has denied there have been any protests in Tripoli.

[ external image ] Oh dear oh dear... we all knew he was delusional, but this confirms it!

Rescue Hercules pilot has lucky escape as bullet bounces off helmet

Blimey... that was close. :/

[BeidAmmikon]

Star light, star bright, The first star I see tonight, I wish I may, I wish I might, Have the wish I wish tonight:

Warmongers, Destroyers, Fascists.

Thank you.
Good night.

[Sorkvild]

Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told the BBC he is loved by all his people and has denied there have been any protests in Tripoli.

Gaddafi is smoking some heavy dope or he drank some of that coffee prepared by Bin Laden

Colonel Moammar Gaddafi spoke live by telephone on Libyan state TV Thursday, blaming the 10-day-old uprising on al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden, and claiming al Qaeda militants are "exploiting" Libyan teenagers, giving them "hallucinogenic pills in their coffee with milk, like Nescafe.

[Aye Capn]

Libyan leader Col Muammar Gaddafi has told the BBC he is loved by all his people and has denied there have been any protests in Tripoli.

The Bagdad Bob Show goes on tour.