[Mayhem 3.21b] Zero Hour 2.2

[choiseul]

Reigniting my love for X3 and found this gem - thanks for developing it and creating such an awesome game. Kudos to you guys!

[Hector0x]

hotfix 1.10b released. Fixes a freeze issue.

[shift53]

I recently found out about Zero Hour and have been so excited to pick this mod up again.

I started a game yesterday until it eventually froze a few hours in. Today, I decided to start all over again. Sadly, after a few hours in, it froze again. I loaded a few times to try and get a save as close as possible to the hang so it could be reproducible. After many tries, I managed to save the game right before it happens. To reproduce, just load it, turn on SETA and wait. Sometimes it takes a few seconds, others a minute or two.

I was running clean install X3AP, X3 Mayhem 3.21b, X3 Mayhem Zero Hour 1.0a, Mordan's ZH 2.0 - Partial Beta 4. Upgrading to 1.10b didn't help, although I only tested it on the same save.

Here are the relevant files:
Save: https://www.dropbox.com/s/3mf79w5s92jgsv9/X02.sav?dl=1
Galaxy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vyr28v7wws6f6 ... 6.zip?dl=1

Many many thanks for this awesome mod!

[Hector0x]

Your savegame still uses the outdated worker scripts. When the hotfix b restarted your workers they still reused the faulty scripts again. When i manually restart all Workers your game doesn't freeze anymore.
Make sure that you actually downloaded the latest version of the 2.0 partial Beta (it got updated yesterday). If you install a version from before it breaks my hotfix b.

To fix this:
1) install ZH 1.10b
2) make sure your partial 2.0 Beta files are up to date. They must NOT contain worker scripts (Mayhem.Task.Worker...) I just downloaded to check and it looks fine.
3) start a new game. Continuing this game won't work. I can upload a fixed savegame. Let me know if you want it.

[shift53]

Your savegame still uses the outdated worker scripts. When the hotfix b restarted your workers they still reused the faulty scripts again. When i manually restart all Workers your game doesn't freeze anymore.
Make sure that you actually downloaded the latest version of the 2.0 partial Beta (it got updated yesterday). If you install a version from before it breaks my hotfix b.

To fix this:
1) install ZH 1.10b
2) make sure your partial 2.0 Beta files are up to date. They must NOT contain worker scripts (Mayhem.Task.Worker...) I just downloaded to check and it looks fine.
3) start a new game. Continuing this game won't work. I can upload a fixed savegame. Let me know if you want it.

No need to fix the save. Now that I know why it freezes, restarting is not a worrisome option anymore.

One last quick observation, more for Hairless-Ape. When I download Partial 2.0 Beta through the link given in this post, I get the archive with files marked last modification from May and older, albeit the mention of the 7-1-23 update right above. Is it possible the link hasn't been updated by oversight or I shouldn't be looking at these modification dates?

Thank you so much for your help! Really enjoying Mayhem, wayyyy more than X4.

[Hector0x]

No worries, in this 7-1-23 update he just removed 3 Worker scripts, so that they don't override my 1.10b fix. His features like improved Looters, etc. are included in the 1.10b Hotfix.

Thanks for the kind words. I feel similar about X4. Sometimes its great, but overall X3 feels snappier.

[Hairless-Ape]

Thanks for the kind words. I feel similar about X4. Sometimes its great, but overall X3 feels snappier.

^^^ What he said ^^^

[shift53]

Thanks for the kind words. I feel similar about X4. Sometimes its great, but overall X3 feels snappier.

^^^ What he said ^^^

Awesome guys! No freeze anymore in my new game.

[jirinaforever]

Feature suggestion:
A way to change min/max stock to import/export globally for all factories. 40% is fine at the start when you use smaller and cheaper transports, but once your economy develops the freighters are often half empty because they load at 40-50%. Setting this globally from one spot once you're established will cut agent trips by half if set to 80%.

[Gerugon]

Hi there, thanks for all the time and effort you guys put into this project it really shows and yields in an amazing mod experience =D

On a sidenote i made a quick let's test video about it and my people seem to like it aswell =)

(It's in german tho, sorry ><)

https://youtu.be/ofWwCEX9zD4

[stevecs]

Tried X4 yet again and seems it's still lacking so back to X3. My last game X3+LU played for about 1500+ hours if not more (couple starts and some tweaks to LU's scripts). Anyway, never really tried Mayhem in depth and now see this modification has some very interesting features. Was going to start another longer game but a quick question what variables in the config t files should I look at if I'm looking for a slower-paced game (i.e. I like to take time to build up an empire and basically try to use economic coercion first and use fleets to basically 'enforce' the inevitable.

That takes time, from reading here and looking at some yt vids it appears that this has a balance more towards military enforcement as a primary tactic which I would like to diminish a bit.

[Hector0x]

what variables in the config t files should I look at if I'm looking for a slower-paced game

Choosing easy difficulty at gamestart should already do the trick. Additionally you could maybe disable ship upkeep and debuff certain enemies

addon/t/9972-L044.xml > set maintenance cost multiplier to 0

Xenon expansion can be slowed down by increasing OCV build delay in 9973-L044.xml and lowering Xenon fleet cap in 9972-L044.xml

Max pirate bases = 0 in 9972-L044 should also work to remove all pirates from the game


If you don't need to play immediately i would recommend to wait for the 2.0 re-release. It should be a lot easier to get into.

[stevecs]

Hmm. Thanks. and no I don't need to play 'immediately' But will probably dip my toe in.

I was looking through the config files and getting info as to pre-req's for the various ascension paths and various triggers. One question, is there a way to configure / modify when the AI players consider it to be 'open season' on unclaimed sectors? Seems the default being mentioned is when the player claims their first sector. Would like to modify this to be 2 or 3 sectors (or about 1/4 the size of an AI state). Basically want to see about playing the idea of embattled bastion sectors (i.e. like the concept of cut-off duchy's ) but that's hard to do without cheating more overtly.

Also, I couldn't find this in the docs or looking through various posts. The 'zone of control' is that *ONLY* for adjacent sectors (i.e. they have to be directly connected by gates)? I.e. if you find an area that is

Code: Select all

A - B - C
| - | - |
D - E - F
| - | - |
G - H - I

And say you take sector E, would 'C' be part of a zone of control or only B, D, F, H? (likewise if you took say 'C' would 'E' be included or just 'B' & 'F') ?

[Hector0x]

Zone of control needs the jumpgate connection. So when claiming sector E in your example, then C would not be covered and the AI would move in.

The 'open season' always starts at the first player owned sector. Changing this would require multiple script edits which might break something else if not applied carefully.

In the current version the AI puts extra priority on empty sectors and they get kind of rushed by their fleets. In 2.0 i will remove this AI obsession because it always forced you into a certain playstyle and it seemed wierd that suddenly everyone starts to claim all sectors left and right.

On easy or normal you can already wall off entire sector clusters pretty effectively. There are only very few edge cases where the AI could still claim a sector which is behind yours + the Zone of Control behind it.
The galaxy generator allows to modify gate connections to create suitable areas like that.

[stevecs]

Yeah, I wasn't really looking to create large 'blocks' of space (walled garden) but more to create a couple 'lone bastions'. where other npc's are free to move around/behind but leave a hard 'nut' somewhere as a future choke point / embattled position (i.e. like the Siege of Bastogne during WW2) if that makes sense. Kind of like that type of play style. Kind of brings to mind Chesty Puller's quote "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies the problem.")

[Hector0x]

Totally possible. You can even connect your bastions with jump beacons like a ww2 airlift.

Static defenses will come too.

[stevecs]

Only played a little bit of ZH 1.10b about 10-12 hours or so just to dip my toe in. tried a little of each of the 'ascension' options but really went with the quickstart when I started running into walls. Basically the economy changes really rubbed me the wrong way as well as nurfing the automated options for exploring/trading/scanning/etc and needing an outpost first.

I'll try more after 2.0 but really on the fence here. I like a bunch of the changes (dynamic map, trying to close up some of the 'fake' (source-less) building, etc). But what really drove me to the X series was more trying to also have a Laissez-faire / Milton Friedman type economy (granted vanilla is far from this but it's a lot closer than many other games).

Was kind of wondering if anyone can espouse some of the reasoning why the economy was corralled so much with mayhem/ZH? i.e. was it just a design choice, or due to trying to account/solve a different problem?

[Hector0x]

The original mod used simple production chains to prevent that NPCs immediately run out of resources. Back then the AI was very restricted.

For example it would invade random enemies but ignore big Xenon fleets wrecking their industry.
It often lost hundreds of freighters in the same locations, but relentlessly send hundreds more. Then maybe the factory distribution put most of their hull part factories behind this unreachable area. So these hull parts were not available for their ship construction. But the AI didn't notice this problem because on paper had all factories needed for a balanced resource supply.
It didn't care about what resources it actually has at hand. It played super aggressive until starvation.

With Zero Hour the AI became more reactive. In the above example it would focus more on the Xenon threat, stop sending freighters into the same meatgrinder and also change the factory loadout in order to get more hull parts into the Outposts.
So at this point the mod could probably get away with more complex production chains. But i'm not too keen to experiment here. In my opinion there is enough depth.

The downside of a more robust economy is that there are less trade opportunities. Back in the base mod you could always sell C-Rations to Ore mines.
Here you can still sell resources for massive profits but its mostly about quantity now. If you want to trade you have to find out what the galaxy needs (check what's low in trading stations) and produce it in your factories.

This mod requires that the player wants to build an empire with stations and all. There is not much content for freelancers who want to travel without obligations.

[stevecs]

Hmm. The complexity of loosing access to production resources (behind blockade or walled off regions) would be an interesting challenge to code or model the AI for, didn't think immediately but you pointing that out makes some sense.

Don't know about the 'robust' part of the economy in Mayhem/ZH, it really feels more of an isolationist or self-contained economy than robust but that could be semantics (I'm thinking more as in a traditional real-world economy mindset).

One thing I kind of liked with the older scripts/engines was that you could (over time and with 'accidents' happening to faction factories) become a monopolist for resources. I.e. corner the markets for ore, silicon, ecells, or pretty much any ware. You would have to build factories and sell some at cost or even lose money (taking in account of lost ships/transports/etc) but then the AI would over time rely on your stations opposed to building it's own if the market was saturated. This gave the player another dynamic in the game (or could if the game didn't cheat a lot to create things from nothing) where you could constrain the military or offensive capabilities of a faction for periods of time by constraining supply. It also (granted wasn't really coded but could have been) would give the AI factions incentive to protect your stations/ships in sectors that they controlled as the player was so instrumental in the economy. (to me this more relates to the 'real world' where this is politics as normal)

Granted this is probably way outside the design specs of mayhem/ZH. Just something that I was looking for as additional complexity/dynamics.

[Hector0x]

I think i get where you're coming from and must admit that this part of the game does get diminished.

The various economies are mostly isolated and not very interconnected.
But this is by design, so that factions can exhaust themselves and be defeated. Remember that the AI has unlimited money. In X4 for example you can't defeat a faction because it just buys more parts or entire ships using their magic money. Neutral traders can even bring them resources which their enemies have produced. This interdependency doesn't fit with the turf war theme in this mod.

Mayhem puts trade restrictions on the 4 highest tier ship components. I.e. every faction must produce them. If they run out of even just one of those they won't replace any ship. This is what makes it possible to defeat a larger enemy.

All the lower tier resources do get traded freely. Trading stations act as a middleman to skip direct trade between factions if too many wars are going on.